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Which moction capture suit? Rokoko Vs. Perception or even others?

Posted By richardjohnhodges 8 Months Ago
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Which moction capture suit? Rokoko Vs. Perception or even others?

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richardjohnhodges
richardjohnhodges
Posted 8 Months Ago
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I think a motion capture suit is the route for me, tryingto use a kinect camera just isn't good enough. What motion capture suit do you use? Do you recommend it or wish you went for a different one? I just don't want the animations to look cheap, this is for cinematic web content, not video games where jittery or bulky movements are kind of expected.
Kelleytoons
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I've been through the Kinect to iPisoft to PN suit route (with some other stops along the way - some costing a LOT of money) and the PN suit has, for me, been the answer (disclaimer: I have never used or even considered the Rokoko -- it might be great).

I actually have two suits and they both work perfectly.  There is a LOT you need to know (so if you get one, let me know and I'll point you towards some videos) but once you've got it mastered it takes only five minutes to get the suit on and be up and recording perfect motions.

I have version 2.0 -- there is an even better, more expensive version (albeit without the hands) and supposedly it tracks faster motions (like karate and such) better but since this old man can't do that stuff it isn't a factor.  If you DO intend on VERY fast stuff (like Bruce Lee) you need to check out the higher priced suit or perhaps other options.

With the new discounted price it's kind of a no-brainer (note that I do not use - although I bought - nor recommend the iClone plugin.  As long as you have 3DX you are good to go).



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richardjohnhodges
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Thank you sir, I am seeing good things about Perception Neuron and a friend just sent me a test clip and it looks awesome. I do not intend to do faster actions, and if i did I think i can record them slowly and key frame them to look more authentic then if I did them myself. Regardless, im more looking to easily add authentic motion to scenes, characters walking around and talking, picking things up, etc.

may i ask why you don't recommend the iclone plugin? I know you can record elsewhere and simply convert, but is there no benefit to doing it the 'live' way to see how it looks on your actual character?
Kelleytoons
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This is only my opinion (and others here disagree) but there are a couple of issues with using the iClone plugin and the PN suit.  First of all, be aware you will ALWAYS be running the Noitom software -- either you run it in the background and it "feeds" iClone, or you just run it standalone, but either way it's always the main program to capture/transfer the motions.  So running the plugin is a secondary step and one that introduces complications.

First and foremost problem is that detailed characters or a scene with a large amount of data will slow down the capture tremendously and no "real time" will be observed.  It used to drive me crazy to see my movements so far behind what I was doing until I started capturing with a dummy figure and greatly cutdown scene.  Second (and perhaps most important) - it's VERY difficult to get the character to line up properly in your scene.  Far, FAR easier to place it afterwards than to try and figure out which way is which and getting it moving properly.  What I do nowadays is just map out the scene on my floor and work accordingly, watching in a mirror if need be (which leads me to the last observation - if you are truly "acting" you shouldn't be looking at yourself anyway, but just acting.  As a director I can always tell a bad performance.  It's no coincidence that NO professional mocap artist watches themselves perform during their performance, but merely just "acts".  As a dancer I learned to control my movements in a mirror, but doing an actual show I would NEVER watch myself.  Too much awareness kills a good performance and I can always tell when this has happened during a capture from anyone).

But it's up to you -- at the very least I would advise you to try without it as you can always buy it later (as I did, only to find out it was a mistake).



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richardjohnhodges
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That does make sense, I figured i wouldn't be using motion live the entire time, but especially when trying to sort of 'program' the scene, it makes more sense NOT to do it live i feel. 
prodos
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Greetings KelleyToons,

I'm planning/hoping to purchase the Perception Neuron 32 V2 outfit, but am more interested (at the moment) in using it with Cartoon Animator, rather than with iClone.

I'm in Melbourne, Australia.

Would it be possible to get some advice? Maybe by phone or Skype?
I'm happy to pay a moderate fee for your time, if you prefer.
I tried to PM you, but I think your inbox is full.

Thanks for your consideration.

Best Wishes,
Prodos

Kelleytoons
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I'd be glad to help you in any way if I can (I also have Cartoon Animator, as I bought it for my granddaughter, and I have the mocap plugins for it as well, but the only ones I've used so far have been the Live Face ones, just to show her what she can do).  I have a small amount of interest in trying to do some mocap with my PN suit for it, but haven't as of yet.

However -- and I want to say this in the nicest way possible so please don't take ANY offense from this -- you can't afford me.  Which is only to say I am retired and no longer work for pay unless the project is overwhelmingly interesting to me.  But, again, I'd be glad to help you out just as I help out anyone I can if we can work out the time/meeting thingee (I have used Skype on very limited occasions).  You can always call me but I do not give out my number on a forum, obviously.  But the first step would be to email me to tell me exactly what you are trying to get help with so I can even see if I have that knowledge.  My email is mike at kelleytown dot com (but make sure you spell my last name, Kelley, correctly - a LOT of folks leave out that final "e").  



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prodos
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Greetings Mike/Kelleytoons,

Thanks very much. Will email you right now.

Smile

Best Wishes,

Prodos
nealtucker
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Posted 7 Months Ago
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Great info Mike and from what I have seen over the past year is that Mocap is the way to go for the best custom animations, 
Have you a place where we can see some examples of your work using your PN gear?
Cheers
Neal

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Kelleytoons
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Well, my official YouTube channel is here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQIIwskzJuzr8ePF30hYrRA

But then you have to navigate to various places.  All of my iClone animations over the last couple of years have been with the suit but I'm afraid I'm not well organized in that way (here's my "animations" playlist but it includes a lot of 2D stuff):  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsFSGmCrApr6y9_6iLTVlCX4O9jYOb7f3

I think if I were to pick ONE animation I've done with the PN that is representative it would be the one I did for last Halloween.  All actions (including background characters) performed by me:



Crap - I just realized I was thinking of my OTHER Halloween video.  Okay, here it is as well (but both are good examples of PN usage):







Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
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7 Months Ago by Kelleytoons



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