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Do I Also Need Faceware?

Posted By plan111 Last Month
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plan111
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Hi.

I see on the site that the Motion Live plugin is 100$, but then there's the faceware plugin, which is1600$ (!!!!!!!!). What I'm confused about is, do I need only the Motion Live todo some basic mocap, or do I also need to shell out 1600$ for the faceware. Isthe faceware plug only for some advanced features? I only need basic stuff,like mouth animation and so on.

Part of my confusionalso stems from the fact that when I check the Cartoon Animator page, or CrazyTalk, those apps seem to only require a Motion Live plugin, no expensive otherplugs. If that's the case, is it possible to do the mocap in CTA4 then importit into iClone?

Sorry if my questionis a bit confusing, but the info from the site is so scattered that I don'teven know how to ask it in a non-confusing way.

Basically, what wouldbe a reasonably priced option to get facial animation (body too if possible,but facial is priority) into iClone?

Thanks. Happy 2020  everybody.

SeanMac
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Hi plan111

Happy New Year to you, too.

OK - you are right about the info being scattered on the site. The lack of a search facility doesn't help. But the site does ned a thorough makeover.

https://mocap.reallusion.com/iClone-faceware-mocap/   is the faceware bit, but there is another way in which might prove less expensive.
Many on this forum use an Apple iPhone X or better and the free App - Live Face to go through the MotionLive Plugin for Facial animation.
They have written and YouTubed about it - try 3dtest.
regards
SeanMac

 
Kelleytoons
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Just to clarify -- MotionLive is the "hub" software that controls doing mocap in Real Time inside of iClone.  However, by itself it won't capture anything.  In order to capture stuff you need both hardware and additional software.  In the case of facial mocap you either need a webcam and the Faceware plugin (which have a combined cost of around $1700) or you can use an iPhone and the iPhone Live Face plugin (which, depending on the iPhone/iPad model have a combined cost of a bit less, say around $1200-1500).  Either way, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

I have both Faceware and Live Face and I prefer Live Face, although Faceware does have the advantage of being able to use video for your capture (so you could have a friend send you video and use that for the capture, or even capture video off the web).  



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charly Rama
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Yes, as Mike said, if you have already an iphone X or later model, Motion live is enough. I always had a cheap phone, not expensive because I only use my phone for phone calls, but I bought an iPhone X for iclone and I don't regret it, It's more acurate than faceware but faceware has a advantage as Mike said

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plan111
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The site needs a thorough makeover,  marketing needs a thorough makeover,  the manuals need a thorough makeover.  I mean,  I love this company's stuff but holy  **** Reallusion. Maybe hiring a consultant to make sense of all that wouldn't be a bad idea. Or something.  Anyways,  I think you also need a profile app with the iPhone isn't it?  Thing is,  I hate apple's  extremely closed ecosystem,  so an iPhone is out of the question for me. If they'd be affordable second hand,  I'd buy one just for that.
At the price of any of both of those options,  the only mocap I'd transmit to the characters would be hysterical crying. 
Thanks for the reply. 
plan111
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So if let's say I download a video of someone dancing,  will it the faceware capture the whole body?  Including the face?  And Mike,  I agree that there's no such thing as a free lunch,  but this is a lobster/ caviar meal sprinkled with gold flakes.  I'm not sure that the price they're asking for it is what it's worth.  I think they charge that price because they can.  AFAIK, they don't have any competition in that particular area. From what I understand,  Cartoon Animator doesn't need the faceware plugin. But I might be wrong. Again, after checking the product pages and watching some videos,  I still have no clue about what is what. I've sincerely never seen such a confusing line of products. 
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No Faceware does the face.  As it says.

There is a software/web company that allows such body capture with your phone, and at a fairly reasonable price, although (again) TANSTAAFL.  It's a sub based service, and the yearly fee (for most) would be around $300-500.  So in a few years you could easily spend what it costs for a PN suit (with far better capture).

I know you think these are $$$ but you clearly haven't been doing 3D animation for a while. We used to spend 10's of thousands for things which weren't nearly as good, and considered ourselves lucky (as we patently put the little dots on our face and the ping-pong balls on our bodies).  Mocap isn't for the casual hobbyist, which is why folks sell lots of motions you can use in their place.  People keep saying "well, it will get cheaper" but I don't think so, not at least in my lifetime (which is a LOT shorter than yours).  For one thing, it's a niche market and the tech is expensive to make/program.  

If you make money from your animations you can pay off the investment in no time.  If not -- well, as I said, mocap ain't for hobbyists, not in general.  You can try cheaper solutions (I have) but they basically suck and then you realize, again, TANSTAAFL.



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plan111
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Kelleytoons (1/11/2020)
No Faceware does the face.  As it says.
I know you think these are $$$ but you clearly haven't been doing 3D animation for a while. We used to spend 10's of thousands for things which weren't nearly as good, and considered ourselves lucky (as we patently put the little dots on our face and the ping-pong balls on our bodies).  Mocap isn't for the casual hobbyist, which is why folks sell lots of motions you can use in their place.  People keep saying "well, it will get cheaper" but I don't think so, not at least in my lifetime (which is a LOT shorter than yours).  For one thing, it's a niche market and the tech is expensive to make/program.  

Actually I'm very noob to 3d in general. I've been editing video and doing VFX for years but I just recently started playing around with 3D to spice up my productions, so I'm not aware of the pricing of that stuff. I was just wondering, if the iPhone app is 300$, why is the other one 1300 (or something like that. I think these are the member prices). Like I said in a previous post, Reallusion's stuff is fantastic, but I'm not into mocap enough to splash 1300$ on an app like that. Maybe if I can get a used iPhone X for cheap but it won't be soon. I guess I'll buy some motions and do a lot of splicing.
Thanks
Kelleytoons
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Why is Faceware so expensive?  You'd have to ask them.  I guess they figure that webcams are cheap, so they can charge whatever they want (whereas the iPhones are expensive so expensive software as well would just be too much).

But, again, it's all relative.  We spent around 5K for a facial mocap software only (you had to provide your own camera and/or footage) as recently as 10 years ago and considered ourselves lucky to have that (and it worked like crap.  Sigh).  One way of looking at it is that another decade from now, when you'll be animating, things might be considerably better/cheaper.  I won't be around then so you have that on your side.  Patience, grasshopper.

(But Live Face is worth the price of an iPhone/iPad alone -- and you can get an iPhone X without service (which you don't need) for just a touch over $500, which is a real steal).



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plan111
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(But Live Face is worth the price of an iPhone/iPad alone -- and you can get an iPhone X without service (which you don't need) for just a touch over $500, which is a real steal).

I thought it was more like 1000$. That's cool. Maybe in half a year it'll be about 200 used.



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