This is great information. Creating a totally "custom" motion VS using motion "libraries" has been a constant decision making *dilemma* for me.
I can see the advantages with both approaches ...

If a 'plug and play' approach of interconnecting library 'modules' is *done well* - I would've thought there'd be a market. If they were cleverly thought out to allow for an efficient smooth 'mix & match' approach (without pregnant pauses during transitions) - then they should be appealing. It's a major investment (the suit) - it would need to be well thought through. But if a *large* enough library (covering all bases) was produced, and the price was right - then in the long term you'd expect a return .... Anything that offers *simple* yet *effective* has the best chance of success.

Cross posted with you Rampa - lol...... Yes - I was thinking of 'customizing/adjustments' too ...... I guess the more clever the design (to minimize adjusting) - the more appealing the package (imo).

EDIT: I would say that of all the things Reallusion offers (mainly talking of iClone), ie: Set layout, Camera motion, Compositing of Planes, Character Creation, Lighting, and Animation, - the 'Animation' is the hardest most time consuming aspect (for me and no doubt many others). That's the aspect a 'clever' approach can overcome. (That, plus 'basic walking' without skating - things that *should* be a breeze even to a relative novice like me - imo).

Anything that gets a novice user up and running quickly and easily has to be a winner. Many a 'would-be' story teller/creator has no doubt given up because of not getting results they're chasing. *If* every iClone purchaser did get results - this forum would be packed with thousands of users swapping notes imo.

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

The pack of motions based around a prop or set seems unique and cool. Maybe not a very interesting for games idea here, but motions to allow a character to navigate a kitchen and do kitchen things is a kind of scenario a movie maker might need. It's a bit tricky to create and animate.

Of course we have the motion layer in iClone to adjust motions as needed. So if the basics of navigating a kitchen and preparing a meal were all there, a user could customize the motions as they need. Having a framework goes a long ways.

You can probably think of more interesting scenarios!

There is a shortage of motions usable for everyday scenes that are not fighting or dancing.

Gestures would be something. It would need to be modular so that you can string short motions together. There are dialog motions for iClone, but they are longer and you need to cut them up for them to be usable with regards to timing. 

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All good ideas about motions -- I hope Dorothy can use some of them and create things that will sell.

I agree that animation is one of the hardest parts for any beginner to handle.  It's easy to buy a great looking set or prop, making a fantastic avatar is child's play nowadays, and there is no end to the clothing and accessories available.  iClone makes lighting a breeze, and has all the tools in place for animation.  But animating an avatar is a real skill that takes some amount of talent. 

Unfortunately as many motions as I have bought (and I have thousands of them) and around 90% of the time I either don't have what I want or the effort to tweak something into something I want is just way too great.  I find putting on the PN suit (takes less than 10 minutes) and recording what I need is the answer, but obviously that is not something everyone wants or can afford.  

I will say that advances are being made in doing mocap with just video, and it's possible in a few years nearly everyone will have a fairly easy way of capturing just about anything they need quickly and fairly cheaply.  But I probably won't be alive then.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Yes, doing 'live' is definitely the ultimate approach. Cost is the big obstacle for the likes of me. Learning 'manual' traditional animation is not an ideal solution for 'aged' users.....
*If* affordable hardware is available when needed - great. Otherwise I guess it's either 'wait' (if you can) or use existing libraries.
Personally, I'm hoping for a miraculous cost breakthrough by the time I reach the animation stage ....

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

Assuming you have a smart phone (and nowadays who doesn't) that phone capture thingee looks very promising.  It's a yearly (or monthly) fee, but for folks who wouldn't use it too much it seems reasonable.  IIRC (and I'm old so I may not) right now it didn't work with iClone but at least one user here is trying to communicate with the devs to get it working (my gut tells me it ought to be workable but since I don't need it I didn't spend much time really checking it out).



I wish the yearly fee was a little more reasonable for people but it's a definite thing to keep an eye on.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Interesting find Mike .... It *seems* that it requires phone usage (with their app), but I can't determine whether the 'uploads' are from *live* recordings and/or recorded video sessions ...... They have a 'free' 10 minutes/month option - I guess that's based on the *number crunching* of 'actual' video running time processed.


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

Yeah, I don't want to get too OT here for Dorothy (although I think she has enough info now) but you could always test this out with their free offering (it seems to me I signed up in order to download some samples but, again, I don't really remember the deets too much as my interest level was very low -- while in life I'm interested in almost everything I need to start cutting down what I can spend time on and this clearly isn't anything I need).

You might do a forum search and see if you can find the thread and/or the user who was really interested in this and perhaps even get together with him so see what possibilities it could have in iClone.  Whether this particular thing is workable or not, I see that down the road in a few years EVERYONE will have some sort of mocap solution.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

You're right - this is Dorothy's thread - hope we haven't confused her .....

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

I agree cost is an issue, me too I'm waiting for the opportunity to finalize my setup with 2x full Neuron 32x sensors suits (with hands) and the iPhone profile for Motion Live, this is all I am missing now, I have everything else.

But I'm afraid - or fortunately - the miraculous cost breakthrough you are hopping for has, in fact, already happened a few years ago. Imagine, before Perception Neuron, Rokoko, etc.. mocap systems were (and still are) an order of magnitude more expensive than what we have access to nowadays. It may be not exactly the same quality and pros and cons but with a bit of elbow grease (cleaning the mocap result, it all comes down to that) we can get quite good results for a fraction of the price of what was available then.

The mocap suits appear to be the most expensive stuff to add to the iClone ecosystem but if you add-up the price of all the motion packs you could buy for iClone (and as Kelley said, even so you have it all, 90% of the time you need something that is missing anyway) I'm not sure the investment would feel cheaper or even greater. To me, investing in, say, a full 32x sensors Neuron mocap suit is still quite cheap compared to what it gives access too. It is a "opening doors to new horizons" kind of tools. Priceless.

One true benefit of some motion packs though (hint @Dorothy) is to get motions you couldn't even produce yourself (or you would have to hire someone to do it) with a motion capture suit. Some kind of dances (if you are not a dancer yourself), martial arts moves (if you are not in martial arts that is), dangerous stunts, etc.. all kinds of specific moves you can't produce yourself or someone close to you.


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guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.