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Thought about Character Designer 3.

Posted By teto45 5 Months Ago
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teto45
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Well. First I don't want to offense anyone of the team. English is also not my native language, so if the tone of my message seems to be rude or offensive, it's really not. I won't be the guy who shouts "THE SOFT IS BROKEN THE NOSE DOESN'T LOOK GOOD, GIVE MY MONEY BAAACK!!!!'. You get the idea.

So I've bought your product because of the launch price and the fact there are many features that can be really interesting, like the LOD maker, good rendering, and a ton of morphs that other softwares don't have. I'm talking about Makehuman here. I used it for a while years ago and was very frustrating, like the morphs sliders that don't have values and have a limit that we can't exceed. And there's the problem of proxies, the fact that we can't add surfaces, just proxies, kind of skins/clothes that also can't be changed by morphs sliders. For example I have a muscular female, a female with horns and elfic ears, but I don't have both in the same time. And the ears can't be changed. What can I do? Frustrating.

So I was very pleased when CC3 was announced (I played with CC2), especially with the features that would save a ton of time, like LOD, materials from Substance, and so on.

So last week and this week-end I finally had time to use it, trying to mimic an anime character (that doesn't have much stylization, for obvious reasons) for testing its versatility. It was pretty decent except for the "big eyes", but OK. For the most part. Then I tried to make my own morphs and the whole thing became a nightmare. Plus, after downloading Makehuman for comparisons, I discovered that it wasn't that bad, and for the most part it's even better. Yes, there's a lack of some morphs, but surprisingly the morphs had a better behavior in my opinion, and creating them is not more difficult than in CC3. The nightmare in CC3 is here : creating morphs is very tedious (lot of try/error). But more than that, the behavior of the morph is unpredictable, you may use the "standard" body and everything from this standard, but most of the time when you use, let's say morph A, and then you use your own morph B, that is inside the surfaces changed by A, the behavior of B is bad. And making your morph B with A already done is not better, it's worse. Makehuman is not perfect in that matter, but is better, for sure.

So, for me, before adding more features there are some things that must be changed, because for the moment for me CC3 doesn't deserve its price (other features can be done elsewhere, like materials, baking textures and LODs). Again it's my opinion, I'm not a professional.
- Please, developers, give us a perfect symmetric model. It's not the case, obviously (someone already told to developers about this issue).
- Develop strong tools for sculpting. What we have now is just the basis. Allow us to sculpt or move/rotate/scale vertexes/files/faces like Blender. Please let us to change the origin where we want, and change its orientation as well. For the moment it's pretty useless in CC3. I do know that CC3 is the "first version", a basis. But if I knew all of that today, before buying the soft, I wouldn't.
- Makehuman let us to know the age of the character, its weight, its height and other stuff. CC3 not. At all. Makehuman has its flaws, already written here, and other ones, like the impossibility to add morphs sliders for teeth, objects you add like horns. But is superior in many topics. Like, for example, you can do symmetric operations (left -> right, right -> left), in CC3 it's not possible.
- For me, if the next big milestone (like CC3.5) doesn't have major improvements in reliability in morphs, symmetry and real tools for sculpting, I will stop to support the software. I wanted to use it in order to develop my own morphs sliders and it's just impossible. I think that it's not a coincidence that the shop/repository is so empty, just few complete bodies, and very few dedicated morphs. CC3 is clearly designed for game designer and DAZ users, that are the same most of the time. That's OK, but it's not my case.

And I say that with all respect that I can have for a talented team.
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5 Months Ago by teto45
Peter (RL)
Peter (RL)
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Thank you for the feedback. I will pass this on the Character Creator team for review.

I have to say that reading your post gives me the impression that it may just be a cleverly disguised advert for MakeHuman (You don't work for them do you?) but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Taking my RL cap off for a minute I can say I have tried MakeHuman and really don't see how it can be compared to the powerful features found in CC3 like the Transformer, easy OBJ clothing import, automatic weight transfer, direct export to Unreal / Unity with LOD and so on.

Regarding the morph issues you have found, I do think this may be in part just down to lack of experience. I would advise spending more time with our Tutorials as this may resolve some of the concerns you have. However, if you do feel there is an issue with the morph creation process, please do feel free to report the issues in our Feedback Tracker and the development team will investigate.

Thank you.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com


teto45
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Peter (RL) (1/21/2019)
Thank you for the feedback. I will pass this on the Character Creator team for review.

I have to say that reading your post gives me the impression that it may just be a cleverly disguised advert for MakeHuman (You don't work for them do you?) but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Definitively not.
Peter (RL) (1/21/2019)Taking my RL cap off for a minute I can say I have tried MakeHuman and really don't see how it can be compared to the powerful features found in CC3 like the Transformer, easy OBJ clothing import, automatic weight transfer, direct export to Unreal / Unity with LOD and so on.

I never said that Makehuman is more powerful than CC3. I just say this :
- If you only need actual morphs (+essentials) CC3 is far better than MH at any level... except for morphs creation.
- Since I tried to do my own morphs I was very frustrated. You can say that it's because I'm a newbie. OK, why not. But when for basics things, nothing works as intended, I start to think that my newbie condition is not the only issue. If, to have a basic morph, I have to test every possibility of interactions/issues with other morphs and have to go back and forth for hours with Blender (because your tools are too basics when you want to be accurate), I want to quit.
- In other words : Do I need your materials tools when it's not possible to change the material of the main body for a reason ? Is the LOD-maker useful when I can't achieve the character I want ? What is the need for me to have an easy clothing import when I have to make them anyway, so I use Marvelous Designer that can do the same thing (and last version has huge improvements this year about that) ? My point is : All those features are useful (and huge time saver, I can't deny that) only when you can achieve your character completely inside CC3, because you can't import a whatever character made elsewhere, so if I can't achieve my character inside CC3, the rest is useless.
- By the way, I have reasons to say that MH has better behaviors with its morphs : the neutral character is really neutral, with breasts for example, and you can choose many things before the beginning, gender, of course, but also race, age. Things that I was annoyed to not find in CC3. But aside that, there are flaws that CC3 doesn't have.

What I want to say is CC3 can be a killer app if user can do everything he wants easily (thanks Captain Obvious) :
- Making morphs within an hour that have a really good behavior (morph should only be dependent to surfaces around it or the ones that the user can select, for example).
- Allowing to have a morph that can change surfaces it controls, like subdivisions. Of course, other morphs could use these subdivisions (so the can't work when the main morphs is no there).
I talked about MH for a reason. For the moment I have all tools I need to create things around a character: clothes, poses, skin, LOD, even if it's way longer. But if I can't create the character I want because the tools to create variations are not good enough, I prefer to use MH. It's free, with a good community too, and at least I can create my needs without to climb Everest for each morph I need to make. My only big issue with CC3 is there, and only there.



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