@Dr. Nemesis

I'd like to know if the Perception Neuron Pro could work well to capture fast movement ? I'm looking for a relatively cheap solution to capture tennis strikes, which requires both precision (around +/-5cm or 2 inches) and speed.

Do you think the Perception Neuron Pro could do the job ?

Also did you set your body measurements and did it help with the strange foot orientation ?

Thanks in advance for your help ! :-)

I think you'd be much better off with the original, because to capture precise strokes you'll need finger movements as well, which can't be captured with the Pro (and this IS my area of expertise -- not only do I have the original PN, but tennis is my second passion, and I still play 10 hours a week at my advanced age).

While the Pro can capture hand rotation and wrist pronation, it won't get grip changes and definitely can't handle those of us who use two hands on one wing or the other (or both).  I undercut the ball with my two-handed grip and depending on how I position those fingers I can get more or less spin -- would that be captured without the fingers?  It's *possible* (you do get a "hand" sensor that fits on the back).

 I might try a capture both ways, both with and without the finger sensors to see if it can see what my racket is doing.   I've often thought that one of these days I would take it out on the court but it's still WAY too hot here in Florida for this (although I do play indoors a couple of times a week -- my time there is limited and I'd rather not spend it doing capture <g>.

In a month or two when it IS cool enough I'll get on and see what I can see -- if nothing more I'd love to analyze my strokes very precisely.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

thank you guys for all those informations, now, I have to work hard if I plan to buy it, I don't know if madame ' ll agree

Mike, you killed me when you told the first time for you with PN was like a condum, I just couldn' stop laughing


     

Hi Manu. I do think the PN Pro could capture tennis moves. I don't know what the exact precision margins are though.
I'd go against Kelly's recommendation if you can afford it. As I've used the suit more and more, I've become aware of how important a good compass calibration is with this tech, ESPECIALLY when you want precision. 
With the pro you can calibrate ALL sensors in the amount of time it'd take you to calibrate just one sensor on the 1.0 or 2.0.
This is something most people just never talk about but it is of prime importance. If you want accuracy, semi regular compass calibrations are needed. This is just a fact.
On top of that a friend told me the jumping I did in my test wouldn't look as good on the previous versions so it depends how much work you're prepared to add after the shoot.

His recommendation for finger capture is also misguided IMO. Their inclusion in the capture lowers the possible frame rate you can export at. Not a big issue for average shoots but for a fast action, or stunt shoot, this is more relevant. Personally, if I were to buy the 2.0 I'd save some money and skip the fingers.

I didn't do measurements in the end cause I lost the PDF that shows how to do it and simple corrections in Iclone have allowed me to forgo it. However I WILL be taking the measurements before I start any action scene shoots as they'll be more important there.

Edit: Do bear in mind that they seem to have been sold out for a while on their site so you might not have much choice.

@Kelleytoons,
thanks for the tip !
Although for my case, a tennis game, fingers won't be much noticeable, so it's not too much of an issue.
Accurate hand placement however could be, as it'd be nice to get western/eastern grip correctly detected (although it should relatively easy to fix that afterwards).
But I won't buy any suit before 6 months or maybe a year, so I can wait for the additional VR glove of the Pro version, if necessary.

If you record your strikes, it'd be really great if you could post a video of the result, especially if you do serve and/or hit the ball with high-speed (eg: 75+ mph)

@Dr. Nemesis,
thanks for your answer !
Money is an issue for me, but not as much as time, so if the Pro version can save me some, it'd be ok.

And I'm not in a hurry to buy ; I'm currently weighting my options, so I can wait them to refill their stock...

At 1st, I planned to buy the 2.0 version, to do prop anims, and hopefully sidestep & running animations, but if I could do strike anims with a better but still affordable suit, it'd be really great !

If that's your timetable for sure I'd look at the Rokoko suit -- as a tennis player, it would be a LOT nicer to wear and should have the same advantages as the PN Pro (at a cheaper price).  I'm looking seriously at it as my second suit.

(But no, sadly, at my age if I could hit the ball that hard I'd be a 4.5 instead of a 4.0).

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

@Kelleytoons,
I didn't know that suit ! It looks pretty neat, although at this point I'm not sure whose strikes I'm going to capture, so maybe the size could be an issue, but L size might be a safe enough choice.
I watched the demo video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_9TZHGswVA and I noticed the feet were a bit funky, at best, like on this screenshot :



Is it the kind of precision I can expect from the Neuron Pro as well ?

You should talk to those people.

I have seen ALL kinds of mocap from all kinds of places, and total accuracy isn't completely possible (which is why, with even the best mocap, some cleanup is always necessary).  For those who require absolutely precision there are very $$$ solutions out there (usually in the realm of Hollywood and usually using markers and multiple camera locations).

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Mocap "suits" like Perception Neuron and others are not the best option for accuracy or fast action.  Like KT mentioned, multi 'high speed' camera systems are what you'd need if you're leaning toward 'scientific' motions.  The 'sensors' on your body are prone to moving with flexing muscles, ground impact and generally not accurately placed and/or 'fixed' on your person - so, the software makes a 'best guess' calculation... remember, the sensors have no idea where they are in space, only their relative position to each other - and then calculated on a "one size fits all" algorithm based on height/sex.  Instead of investing in a suit, it may be better to hire a 3D motion capture studio for half a day - or, better still, a company that has a 'location' capable system... set up in a school gym for instance.

thank you DR Nemesis for your observations. I would like to contribute to this thread as well since I recently got one. 
    After using PN pro for almost a month, the biggest issue i found is drifting. the accuracy is really excellent overall, with very little clean up to do. However you can never land back to the original position from which you started. IF this is critical for you then this is not the right tool for you. But if precise position of character placement is not critical (plus or minus half meter) then this thing is fantastic, two or three takes and im done. Unfortunately all the inertia base systems will have drifting problems.  It's the nature of the beast. Maybe they should couple it with a vive tracker, like one on your head to keep accurate position.  
  Anyhow, here is a test using PN pro, faceware and a second pass with live face for facial muscles, and leap motion for hands. Total hours of work for 26 seconds of animation, including capture and clean up was about 6 hours for this kind of quality. Hope this info helps people out there thinking about getting it.  






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