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iClone Lighting positions in FUSION

Posted By sonic7 Last Year
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sonic7
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As part of my 'journey' with all things 3D, I need to take some lighting (designed in iClone), across to FUSION 9.
(This is for getting a 'matching' look for a shot that requires Fusion 9).
I have some hurdles ...
● I own iClone 'pro' - not 'pipeline', so I can't export FBX.
● Even if I could, I don't think 'lights' can be exported via FBX anyway (please tell me if I'm wrong about that).
● So, I decided to 'manually' copy the Translation co-ordinates AND the Rotation co-ordinates across from iClone to FUSION.
But .... there's a 'discrepancy'.
(I've adjusted for 'correct scaling' of the 'set' and 'props' so that's not the problem).
It's the way each program references or interprets the co-ordinates of the lights (ie: differently).

Would anyone happen to know of the 'correlation' between the two - when going from iClone across to Fusion?
ie: the need for possibly 'adding or subtracting' 90° or 180° etc - and to which figures?

Thanks.... Smile


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
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Are things slightly off, or way off?
Are the coordinate system oriented the same?


Oh, never mind.  It looks like you addressed that, and I missed it the first time.




iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
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sonic7
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Yeah Dennis - one (sample) light ends up being 'roughly' near to where it *should* be, but it's still a little ways off in it's (x,y), but more importantly, it's pointing up and left instead of down and right. I'm trying all sorts of things .... I'm *reasonably* certain that the 'y' translation of iClone HAS TO BE placed as the 'Z' value in Fusion (and vice versa)...
ie: the 'height' or 'altitude' is done wth the 'Y' offset in FUSION - instead of the 'Z' - most strange ....


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
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Just an idea: would it be easier to attach the light to a prop and use that as reference?


https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/1a09220f-ab50-42ac-ad1a-33ec.pnghttps://forum.reallusion.com/Uploads/Images/d14339d0-cd32-4b35-88f9-40a0.png


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@animagic ..... that's a thought ..... yep I'll try that - sounds like a plan ----- thnks. Smile
(Be doing it tomorrow though - it's late here) .......


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram Kinect V2 iClone-7.41  3DXChange Pro  CC-3 CT-8 Brekel Pro-Body Mocap  Popcorn FX  PopVideo  iRAY  Vegas Pro 16  Mixcraft 8.1 Pro

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Yes, Fusion's coordinate system has Y as up (as do Cinema 4D, Maya, Unity and many others... it's the default for OpenGL graphics)  This is why the 'depth channel' is referred to Z-depth.  Most 3D programs can change their environment to be either.  Fusion, being a 2D + 3D compositing system requires that Y is always up... as Y-up is the standard for 2D graphics.  When importing FBX geometry/lights/cameras into Fusion there is a function to read Z-up files as Y-up.
sonic7
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Thanks for the clarification Mark ....
I won't get a chance until later today to sort through this ....
But it looks like there's actually more to this ... 
The 'Spotlight Beam Angle' is 58° (in iClone), so I've entered 58° as Fusion's 'Cone Angle Setting' to match. But, the only way to get anything like the 'same look' is to drop my light's altitude to about 1/3 of the iClone value, specifically, from 655 down to 200. I know this is needed because with a 'glancing' light beam hitting a flat surface at an angle, the 'lower' (or closer) the spotlight is, the more pronounced the 'shape' (ie: 'parabola' look). It's simply not possible to 'match' the look from iClone without dropping to a value of around 200.
So I'm thinking there's more to this than just the 'Y' becomes 'Z' thing.
Another way I can tell (visually) is to look at what's happening 'in profile'. ie: eyeballing things side-on and getting a 'feel' for the matching look. So by taking notice of the area the beam *needs to cover* (while set to 58° to match iClone), the relative 'height' and angle compared to that floor coverage etc etc - in other words positioning things 'in proportion' to one another, again the same is true. ie: the light *needs to be* at around 1/3 of the iClone height (numerically speaking).
This makes me wonder whether:
●A - I've actually got the set scaled correctly, or
●B - Whether it's a totally different (non corresponding) scale of numbers that's being used (iClone relative to Fusion).
I'll continue *thinking* about this.....
Plus I'll try animagic's suggestion .....


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
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illusionLAB
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Yes, it sounds very much like a scaling difference.  The 'units' in Fusion are based on pixels (like After Effects and generally any 2D+3D program) and not cm or inches.  When I import geometry with 'real world' dimensions I set the import scaling to 0.01.  An iClone scene will fit nicely onto Fusion's 'floor grid' and generally all the tools will be easier to maneuver.
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/0c5d480f-997a-43e2-8f95-7482.jpg

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Thanks for the screen shot Mark  
Smile


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram Kinect V2 iClone-7.41  3DXChange Pro  CC-3 CT-8 Brekel Pro-Body Mocap  Popcorn FX  PopVideo  iRAY  Vegas Pro 16  Mixcraft 8.1 Pro

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Not out of the woods yet ..... but I'm *fairly sure* you have to 'add' 90 degrees to the 'Y rotation' as well .... seems to give the correct 'angle'.
But the position (translation) is still not right .... the light looks the right 'height' - but is too far away from where it should be (plan view). Sad

Edit: Obviously I'm not messing with the Rotation settings since 'degrees' are 'degrees' - surely, meaning that with the exception of the 'starting reference point that a software uses, it *should be* consistent - (perhaps a 90° factor or multiples of that). Like I say it *seems* that adding 90° to the 'Y' rotation yields the correct angle (unless of course it's just co-incidence with this particular light).
Therefore, *theoretically* it's a matter of position - but so far nothing 'neat' seems to be happening with the maths ...
I'd be surprised if the programmers af iClone weren't aware of/have access to - the manipulation that's needed here ......

I tried animagic's idea (if I did it right) - by 'attaching' one of the lights to a prop (the circus floor), then selected 'edit in 3DXchange' (for the floor) - but Xchange doesn't carry that attachment over - so no go there .....

Edit: Well that +90 degrees being added to the 'Y' Rotation isn't a correct assumption after all - as it's not yielding 'consistent' results. So next .....
When transferring 6 lights across from iClone to Fusion 'manually' (a floor 'pattern' of lights like petals of a flower, surrounding the 'origin' point), the angles turned out so 'weird' that they couldn't possibly be lighting this pattern 'on the same plane' (floor plane).
So I 'rotated' the floor through 90 degrees and it 'started' to take on the correct pattern of petals  But an additional position 'transform' was needed to the (now perpendicular) floor - the 'Y' offset needing +30 and 'Z' offset needing -30. (But this, I think is just unique to *this* test, so not a *universal* part of the fix).
With these adjustments the pattern was 'close' on 4 of the 6 lights (almost perfect), but 2 lights were still 'off' and by the same amount' - and these were a 'mirror reflection' of the error, ie: they were displaced (by equal amounts) on opposite sides of a central imagined line of symmetry. No further adjustments were able to rectify this. If this 'close in' pattern can't be made consistent, there's little chance of getting the 'out lying' lights correct as they are further from the origin..
There's obviously some 'magic' transformation that would work, but it's complex and beyond me so I have to concede defeat on this.


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram Kinect V2 iClone-7.41  3DXChange Pro  CC-3 CT-8 Brekel Pro-Body Mocap  Popcorn FX  PopVideo  iRAY  Vegas Pro 16  Mixcraft 8.1 Pro

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