Character Creator and iClone tend to use the one file philosophy of 3D content. For example, if I create a character is CC, add clothing, and add accessories, when the result is saved as a iAvatar files all of the content is saved in that single file. This makes it really easy to transport or move and it ensures that if the iAvatar file is moved to a different computer it will work just fine because all of the sub-content (such as clothing and accessories are embedded in the one iAvatar file). DAZ Studio, on the other hand, seems to use references. So when you build a complete character, the file is actually just a reference to installed content with some settings indicated. I always disliked this concept because it made it harder to re-organize files (because you could end up breaking the links) and it make it difficult to know what is all the sub-content you needed to move the content to a different computer.

It wasn't until I started to try to make some detailed characters that I started to see the advantage of the reference system. For example, I was making a character that was armed with multiple knives and multiple hand guns. This meant that the character's accessories contained multiple knife sheaths, knives, gun holsters and hand guns. In a reference system, it would not matter how many knife sheaths, knives, gun holsters or hand guns the character was carrying because each copy of the content only needed to include the reference and some minimal information about the instance (e.g. location, orientation, etc). This meant that each additional copy of the content was only a minor increase in size to the character. However, in iClone/CC (which does not use a reference system) each copy of the content added the complete mesh, textures, etc for each instance of the content and thus increased the size of the character significantly.




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I would suggest that it's highly unusual for any character to need more than one item of any particular sort -- yes, you have come across an instance where, ahem, instances would be good, but I can hardly think of another.  A character wears one tie, one jacket, one hairpiece, etc.  Having a reference system for the very odd occurrence which you've described just seems like a lot of work for the RL devs with more chances for things to break.

Inside of iClone it's a different thing, and while we don't really have true references it would be nice if we did just inside that particular file.  If you copy a park bench, for example, while it won't duplicate the materials (if you do the ctrl-copy thing) it WILL not create a true reference (in which changing the original would change subsequent references to it).  That would be a useful system to have -- and we'd still have everything all inside of one file.

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Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Yes, an "internal reference" would be pretty nice.  Still one self-contained file, but with the ability to truly clone copies that reference the original.  But also with the ability to "break" the reference, making a stand-alone duplicate, allowing you to modify them individually, too.  A reasonable compromise, it would seem.


(For bonus points, allow you to reference a single master copy of the mesh, but with different textures so they look different.)

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
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I have had too often with older DAZ and Poser projects (the DAZ system is just derived from Poser) that references couldn't be found that I've come to appreciate the one file system, even though the files get large. But I do agree that things could be done a bit more efficient if you have multiple instances of the same item.

Loading times also seems to get longer. iClone files use some sort of compression I believe, and that all needs to be uncompressed on loading, so instance may help there too.

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Geezus, I just found this topic because this is really something that would stop a big studio from using iclone simply because you can't use file referencing and instancing!
Do you guys know if there has been something done in this regard? It's crazy that each scene file contains everything! it makes for some PRETTY heavy files, if you want to do incremental saves this piles up super quick!

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In love with Virtual Production with Reallusion and Unreal!

It's certainly not unique in the consumer industry that a single file holds all - even the "big" boys like Max and Maya are all in.  And certainly Blender, Daz, Cinema 4D, etc. etc. all use ONE file for the project.

The bigger issue in iClone is the lack of instancing even within that file.  Right now if you ctrl-copy a prop or avatar it just creates a duplicate with all the polys (it DOES link maps which helps a tiny bit).  We need true instancing AND we need proxies and both would help a lot.  I don't mind if all that info is still in one file.

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Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley