In my experience. I have found that (execpt for two people) everyone I have sat down with and showed how to make G2 characters has switched from making g3 primarily and back to G2 as thei main format. The biggest hurdle was not even the character creation process iself but the use of Flash which can be pretty intimidating if you've never used it.

Photoshop is a bit more approachable for some because a good amount of cartoonists are already using that. And there's a lot more products out there that can save as psd. And of course a good chunk of these people are cartoonists and illustrators making the leap into anination. But raster graphics are really impractical both for m a creative and technical perspective.

Personally I'm glad theres options as to types of characters. It should not be a matter of using one over the other, but rather based on task. I use g3 when I need an angle that cannot be achieved by a G2. I've used moph heads on a G2 and g3 body. Heck I often find myself not using any of the gx bodies but I've just rigging up props in place if characters. When you draw and import as props and link the pieces together you can achieve any angle or per you need. (I wish lipsync cities be afford to rigged props)

76% of original size (was 664x19) - Click to enlarge
Ibis Fernandez   |   (available for hire)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Professional Animator, Filmmaker | Creator of the highest quality (modular) G2 rigs for cartoon animator and developer of Toon Titan and Puppet Producer 
Author of Flash Animation and Cartooning: A Creative Guide
>>> be sure to check out http://toontitan.com for professional grade assets, templates, and custom tools for Cartoon Animator and more.

Hi Ibis

Thank you for the feedback. 

Of course, for someone with your experience level G2 character creation may seem as quick as G3 character creation but most CTA users don't have your level of expertise.

For someone with limited experience in character creation, G3 characters are easier to create without a doubt. I have found from personal experience that most of those who tried G2 character creation gave up because they found the process too difficult or time-consuming. However, when it comes to G3 character creation, I find most relatively inexperienced users are able to create characters using the PSD Templates and just understand the process much quicker. This even includes my own family.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

I have to agree with tpetmezas on this one.

G3 character are NOT easier in any way. They are a lazy gimmick that fooled customers into thinking they were easier because RL sold them the idea that, "they only need to create one angle" therefore they are easier to make. The truth is that they are actually harder to make. 

G2 characters can also be made from a single angle. And if you compare the speed, efficiency, and versatility of a single angle g2 character versus a G3 character. The G2 character wins by a long shot. Test me. I challenge anyone to a design speed challenge. You build a single angle G3 character, I build a single angle G2 character. You chose the time limit. I guarantee you I will not only build my character faster but, but my G2 character will be more versatile than yours in terms of what it can do. (I'm serious, if anyone wants to take me on this challenge, I'm your Huckleberry).

So pound for pound. If you compare a G2 vs a G3. The G2 will still be the superior format in every way. Mocap support, iMotion and rlMotion compatibility, 3d puppeterring, 2d puppetering, VECTOR BASED, render style and so on... 

What do G3 offer? static raster based images with forced manual workflow. Oh but it has bendy sprites... ummm ok.

Here's the biggest slap in the face, at least how I see it when it comes to CTA being used by professionals and not just for hobbysts. And this is where I personally criticize a lot of RL choices. (Bear in mind that my criticisms are pure with the best intentions in mind. I'm, not just a fanboy, I'm also a professional animator who truly believes in this product and its place on a professional animators toolkit. I might actually be their biggest evangelist when it comes to promoting the use of CTA in professional settings.)

When all is said and done, everything that can be done with a G3 character and everything that I have seen being focused on in the upcoming G4 characters can be easily done in Flash without the need for CTA! Why would anybody want to switch to CTA from Flash or Toon Boom when all of that stuff can be easily done within Flash or Toon Boom directly and a lot easier, and while keeping native VECTOR support? Vector support is absolutely crucial. Especially now that media is evolving so fast from HD to 2k,4k,8k whatever K. Resolution independence means that I can create something today that i can republish again in ten years and it will look just as nice at whatever K.

But, guess what CTA can do that Flash or Toon Boom or any of the bigger competitors STILL CAN NOT DO?...that's right, they can't do complete multi-angled 2d sprites mapped against a 3d skeletal system which are fully poseable at every angle and accepts mocap. There's is not a single professional level tool out there that comes close to the capabilities of what has been achieved with G2 characters. And RL is so nonchalantly brushing this game-changing feature under the rug... I just don't see the logic. 

I'm optimistic about CA4 and it's goofy 3d head thingie. I'm not part of the beta so I don't know if there's gonna be anything else new in terms of features. Or whether that one feature alone is work calling it a major release. But I'm hoping at least for vector support and at the very least the ability to attach those heads to a g2 character. (Im also amost 100% sure thats not gonna happen...but i can hope LOL)


76% of original size (was 664x19) - Click to enlarge
Ibis Fernandez   |   (available for hire)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Professional Animator, Filmmaker | Creator of the highest quality (modular) G2 rigs for cartoon animator and developer of Toon Titan and Puppet Producer 
Author of Flash Animation and Cartooning: A Creative Guide
>>> be sure to check out http://toontitan.com for professional grade assets, templates, and custom tools for Cartoon Animator and more.

Hi Peter,
What I suggest is that going from G2 multiangled characters to G3 two angled elastic characters leads only to - as it is called since ages by animation industry -  LIMITTED ANIMATION, while the flagship of CTA was (even before CTA1 version was released), effective animation of multiangled characters in pseudo 3D space. So CTA3, regarding CTA's initial goal, is a step back. A step forward would be to give 4 more frontal angles (totaly 14) to make our animation even more realistic or give elasticity to all angles of a multiangled character. Trying to achieve realistic animation with only two angled characters is a complete frustration for an animator, and the ease of creating a two sided character is negatively compensated by the increased difficulty to move them effectively in pseudo 3D space. And as we all understand, the difficulty to create multianged characters can only be improved if the developers of the programm try harder in the direction to make it easier for animators. Yes, G2 characters are still there, but undeveloped and abandoned in their fate.
Thanks anyway for pointing to a CTA4 release. It is encouraging to know that you are taking seriously into your account our complaints. I trully believe in the initial concept that CTA brought forth and I really want to contribute to the developement of this program by buying it, but not towards the direction it has taken in this last version of it.
Theodosios

Just for the record - NOT a fan of the G3 characters. I thought they were disappointing, but the bundled items were nice. The G3 characters can't perform in 'pseudo 3D' with all the angle possibilities. This makes for limited if not poor storytelling IMHO. They ARE GR8 for presentational projects, I will give them that, & my purchases in the store of G3 characters & paraphernalia were for that alone. Looking forward to what comes next, Thanks  ~V~ 

       Val RogueAnanda

76% of original size (was 664x19) - Click to enlarge

Hi...

G2 characters work in CTA3 exactly as they did in CTA2 so nothing has been taken away as you suggested in your reply to Ibis. What you have now in CTA3 is the best of both worlds.

The biggest complaint about G2 characters were they were too difficult and too time consuming for the average user to create. To help those users we introduced the G3 "Elastic" characters which are much easier and quicker to create and customise. These are not there as replacements for the G2 characters, it just gives the end user more options for creating characters.

What CTA4 will bring is still be revealed but we are certainly listening to all feedback so thank you for sharing your views. :)


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Hi Peter,
Including G2 characters into CTA3 does not mean at all that multiangled characters are still supported, since they are only left burried somewhere inside the program. Multiangled characters are trully supported, only when they evolve by programmers to G3, G4, G5... multiangled characters, with PSD to animation design export/inport functionallity, for example, and in each new version a better mocap support. Otherwise, true and convincing multiangled animation in CTA3 is already in a dead end. Sorry, but not all people would like to create simplified characters and not convincing animation, just seeking their own convenience. Some of us prefer the little more difficult route of hard work. Reallusion could have given G3 multiangled character support at least in CTA3 Pipeline version, letting the other two versions to people who are seeking their own convenience and only that. Please see also my answer to Ibis.

Hi Ibis,
I was, also, hopping that CTA3 would support multi-angled characters, which I believe was the core feature for the effectiveness of CTA2 animation engine. Since CTA3 made a huge step back regarding this very feature, the lack of it became the main reason to me for not upgrading into version 3 of CTA and, sincerely, If I knew this from the beggining, I wouldn't have bought even CTA2. I still hope, though, that future versions of CTA will eventually bring back all the angles of G2 characters, starting with the two completely necessary angles between the frontal and side positions of G3 characters. We also need PSD to animation-design export/import of multiangled characters, for convenient creation of the many angles, since not all of us are willing or have the money to rent every month Photoshop and Flash from Adobe, nor have the time to learn and work with aditional programms, just because Reallusion did not give us this functionallity. Also the art-style of vector graphics of Flash that you propose to turn our PSD files into, does not fit to the art-style of animation some of us have in mind. The argument that CTA 3 gives now an easier way for creating G3 characters is half-correct. People now have indeed this functionallity at their disposal, to easily draw and move simplified G3 characters. But why on earth they took from the rest of us, who desperatly need multiangled characters for their projects, drawn in PSD ff, the ability to easily draw and effectively move in 3d space such characters, as well? 

You can build your entire character template within photoshop, import PSD to Flash/Animate. Do the rigging in Flash, and import to CTA. Its really not that difficult. Gary Pye's Wendy character was done this way. Also plenty other professional artists are doing it this way as well. In Wendy's case the bitmapped data was vectorized using flash built in bitmap trace function. Converts the image to vector. In other cases, from what I seen they just use the bitmap sprites "as is".

The image below is from one of artist Nadia Khuzina who builds her characters inside of Photoshop, all angles, imports the psd into flash, and uses my Puppet Producer plugin for quickly rigging up the characters before importing them into CTA. 

76% of original size (was 664x19) - Click to enlarge

In terms of efficiency. I recommend optimizing your character design to use similar constructions in bodies etc. You can create 3 or 4 unique bodies that fit what you need. Then the 20 or so heads that that you drop on top of the bodies. Honestly with 3 or 4 heads you can easily create hundreds of configurations as well. Maybe just changing up the hairs designs would be the most to make all the derivative characters unique.

76% of original size (was 664x19) - Click to enlarge
Ibis Fernandez   |   (available for hire)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Professional Animator, Filmmaker | Creator of the highest quality (modular) G2 rigs for cartoon animator and developer of Toon Titan and Puppet Producer 
Author of Flash Animation and Cartooning: A Creative Guide
>>> be sure to check out http://toontitan.com for professional grade assets, templates, and custom tools for Cartoon Animator and more.

Hi Seabat,

Sadly there is no quick way to create G2 multi-angle characters apart from customising existing G2 characters using the many body parts available in our add-on pack selection. If you want to create a character from scratch, then you will need to invest some time to create all the sprites needed for all 10 angles.

It is because we listened to the feedback about easier character creation that we created G3 characters which are much easier to create. For standard G3 characters you are limited to front and side facing characters, but custom character creation is now a more viable option for many. We also added the option to create "Free Bone" characters meaning it is literally possible to animate any image or drawing simply by adding a custom bone structure with a few clicks.

So basically you now have a number of character creation options depending on what you wish to create and how much time you want to put into it. :)


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com