I had the pleasure of participating in the 48 hour film projects machinima edition last weekend, and was surprised to learn at the kickoff meeting that iClone was not allowed. I was equally surprised to learn a week later at the screening that an entry made with Moviestorm won quite a few of the awards.

It made me curious enough to download and try Moviestorm, and I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would think that movies made with one of them are machinima, and movies made with the other are not.

If you're as surprised as I am that our favorite movie making app is not considered fit for use in the machinima edition of the 48 hour film project, email info@48hourfilm.com and cc machinima@48hourfilm.com . I'd really like to see someone from Reallusion contact them and ask for an official explanation, and maybe ask them if it has anything to do with Moviestorm being last years official sponsor for the machinima version of the 48 hour film project.

Pete Patterson - Contract Programmer http://ideajuice.com

Ideajuice Consulting Services
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Decades of programming experience. Working with 3D since the 1980's. Fluent in C# and Javascript.

and the winner of the 48 hour contest - the very talented act2scene24 (Team Clark) is a fervent iClone community supporter - he's almost always in the chat room of the wolf n dulci show

perhaps maybe moviestorm sponsored the event? - i don't know just wondering

anyway kudos to anyone who participated in that event - anytime someone can make a movie in 48 hours has got to have some talent in my book

Moviestorm sponsored the machinima edition of the contest last year, but I know the organizer of this years event and she specifically declined any sponsorships for it to avoid any perception of favoritisim. Besides, Panasonic sponsors the real life version of the 48 HFP, and there is no rule stating that if you use a Sony camera your entry won't be accepted.

My concern is that there is a well known and well respected 'film festival' type of event that is creating a myth that iClone is not machinima. If noone challenges that myth, then people will assume that it's true, and we may see other film festivals simply adopting the same 'rule' and shutting the use of iClone out of their festivals as well.

Reallusion might have some concern as well. I know of four people (including myself) who are trying out Moviestorm because of this competition. For whatever reason, iClone is not being given the same opportunity to show off what it can do and I think that's a shame.

Pete Patterson - Contract Programmer http://ideajuice.com

Ideajuice Consulting Services
Need code???
Decades of programming experience. Working with 3D since the 1980's. Fluent in C# and Javascript.

Thank you for mentioning this - I had no idea that iClone was not being permitted in the 48 hour contest. I will definitely be voicing my opinion on this - I've seen iClone not permitted in other events, but neither was MovieStorm in those situations. The two are too comparable for one to be allowed and not the other.

As posted on my blog and to be sent off in email shortly:

"Based on the first-hand experience of codewarrior, as outlined in this thread on Reallusion, the use of iClone was not allowed in the recent 48 hour machinima event.

Normally, I try to take a deep breath and remind myself that not everyone thinks iClone is machinima. It's like a mantra. Breathe in - breathe out - not everyone thinks - blah blah blah. However - there is a big difference this time, as MovieStorm WAS allowed in the event. Usually, when iClone isn't an accepted format, neither is MovieStorm.

Anyone who is familiar with both MovieStorm and iClone knows that the programs have some pretty solid similarities. Both are non-game platforms. Why would iClone be excluded from such a prestigious machinima event? I was enthusiastic about this event - I had even considered participating.

I know that we can't dictate to contest runners how to set up their rules and criteria, but I would really like to hear an explanation as to why iClone was summarily dismissed in the 48 hour machinima competition, and MovieStorm embraced to the point that one of the top-award winning movies was made with MovieStorm (a well-deserved win, I might add, lest some think I'm casting doubt as to the validity of that decision).

I find this very disheartening at a time when I was feeling confident and upbeat about the progress the machinima community has made in general at embracing the varying platform choices available.

In my opinion, excluding iClone isolates its users. I have enjoyed the cross-pollination of iC and MS users - on TMUnderground we see users of both programs assisting each other on projects, supporting each others work, and enjoying each others movies. The choice made by the organizers of the 48 hour project only serves to create a rift where there wasn't one. At least at past events, iCloners and MovieStormers could console each other when we were excluded from competitions.

It's absolutely mind-boggling to me and I am thoroughly disappointed with this decision. "

Is there any chance you can point us to the exact place where this proscription is located, so we can quote it back in correspondance with the organisers?

I have looked here and can not find what software can and cannot be used for this. It sounds quite unfair that iClone is not allowed

You may to try here in the first instance Killian_wolf

Unfortunately, the only place I know this rule was stated was at the kickoff event, which took place in Second Life with some of the teams who could not log into Second Life being kept in the loop via Skype.

The official rules for the VR edition of the event are here - http://www.48hourfilm.com/vr/rules-filmmaking.php . There is nothing there that mentions either MovieStorm or iClone, and the only part of it that I can see that pertains to either is this section:

"all footage must be machinima footage--that is, shot in a virtual-reality environment in real-time. Post-production and special effects are permitted, but they must be begun and finished during the 48 hour time period, and overlayed over machinima footage. 3D animation--that is, 3D footage created not in real-time--is not allowed."

The organizer of the machinima version of this years event is aware now that for the most part there is no substantial difference in the way iClone and MovieStorm work, and I have no concerns about her intentions to make the contest fair and balanced. She is actively working to determine why the no iClone rule was put in place, and to remove the restriction.

I am asking the iClone community to email both her ( machinima@48hourfilm.com ) as well as info@48hourfilm.com because she will need to convince the general management of the 48 HFP who are not experts in machinima why the rule is unjust and why both tools should be allowed, or at least treated equally in all respects.

Pete Patterson - Contract Programmer http://ideajuice.com

Ideajuice Consulting Services
Need code???
Decades of programming experience. Working with 3D since the 1980's. Fluent in C# and Javascript.

It does seem an overly draconian distinction to be put in place; let's hope it's an oversight by unknowledgeable persons that will be corrected for the future.

Hello everyone,
Thanks for the spirited discussion regarding iClone and the 48hr Machinima competition. I've sent an e-mail to their organizers and asked them to respond to your concerns. Let's give them an opportunity to address your comments. My congratulations go to the winners and all participants in the competition, as they are all friends of Reallusion and the Machinima movement.

Best~ John

Well, as someone who has used MovieStorm, I say good for you. The more tools you can add to your production box, the better. MS is pretty mindblowing for freeware, and a couple of years ago, I felt they were in quite an arms race with RL to see who could offer the best platform. For a brief moment, it looked as though MS might pull ahead.

No longer, in my humble opinion. While iClone has gotten so much deeper and richer with every release, MS is stuck. In fact, the last time I upgraded a while back, the animation quality of the stock motions actually regressed!!!

I ascribe MS's technical problems to a more fundamental problem with its business model. At the risk of oversimplifying, the problem with their business model is that they don't have one. They give away the authoring tool and hope to get income from selling content. But they develop content much too slowly. And the range of content is SO limited--pretty much limited to scenes of contemporary Britain. And, at least while I was still interested in MS, custom content development seemed to be a black art with a closed priesthood. And, to top it off, the company seems woefully understaffed.

I once said in these forums that I thought it was a good thing for RL to have MS as competition. I regret that this is no longer the case! If MS did indeed shut out RL entries, then don't be mad at them; feel sorry for them. Their wonderful accomplishments will mean very little if the business heart remains so weak.

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