Like many other software (including DAZ), I find that the Key Frame information is not very specific. For example, in iClone if you create a key frame for an object position adjustment, rotation adjustment or scale adjustment then it places a key frame indicator on the Transform track.

How can I tell which of these properties have been keyed? Or does a key frame automatically key all properties (i.e. all position, all rotation and all scaling values)?

The problem seems to get compounded when working with objects that have multiple parts (including Avatars) because you can modify each part (bone) individually but the tracks don't break down to individual bones (as far as I can see). This means, for example, that on an Avatar if I move a pinky finger I am going to get a key frame indicator in the Transform track but how do I know what was adjusted at that frame?

If a key frame just stores all values (all position, all rotation and all scaling) then this is very impractical because, especially in a multi-part object, you want to key frame some properties but not all. If key frame stores just some values then it does not seem to be obvious which ones were stored. Unless there is some component of iClone that I have not discovered.

Also when manipulating bones via Edit Animation Layer, is there a way to enter values for the bone position, rotation and scaling as opposed to adjusting them using the sliders? In some cases entering in a value (e.g. to make same adjustment to multiple parts the same) is preferred to using W/E GUI interface.

I am going to say it because I fee that it should be noted: In my opinion, when it comes to handling key frames, Anim8or (a free 3D editing, 3D modeling, 3D animating and scene rendering software that consists of a single EXE that is less than 5MB) wins over both iClone and DAZ hands down. In Anim8or the key frames go down to the bone property but only appear as a track if there is at least one key frame, for that property, set someone in the scene. So, for example, if you have an object that is made of 3 parts and you key frame X and Y position of Part 2 of that object it would create two tracks ("Object Part 2 Position X" and "Object Part 2 Position Y"). If the Z position, rotations and scaling was not used for Object Part 2 anywhere in the scene then they would not be shown in the tracks. These tracks where presented in a hierarchy with higher components summarizing its children. So, for example, if Object Part 2 Position X and Object Part 2 Position Y were set, there would be a key frame marker on each of their tracks but also a key frame marker for Object Part 2 and for Object. Thus by closing the hierarchy you can immediately see which Objects were key framed at any time (similar to what iClone and DAZ show) but by opening the hierarchy it is possible to see what parts in the Object were key framed and opening the hierarchy even more showed you exactly what properties where key framed.

In my opinion this gave maximum flexibility (i.e. any property could be key framed without affecting other properties) with easy and proper identification of what properties have been keyed at each key frame.

BTW, Anim8or might be a oldie with a dated looking GUI and a little bit of a learning curve (although the manual is fairly short) but it amazes me what the programmers were able to cram into the software. Sure, it does not come with any content but it supports 3DS, LWO and OBJ imports (as well as its own AN8 format which is very human readable) out of the box and, as I said, has everything from creating 3D models (you can go down to point by point editing), boning the models, creating animation sequences for the models and building and rendering scenes. All of that comes in a single EXE file (no install necessary) and within 5MB. I still you it over modern editors (like DAZ's Hexagon) to this day. One of the only reasons why I don't use it for rendering is that it does not do a proper job of handling colors correctly when I import things like DAZ characters. Like I said, the program has a lot of features that big company software (like iClone and DAZ) are only catching up to. And yes, before everyone flames me, there are many features that iClone has (or even DAZ has) that Anim8or, obviously, does not...but that does not mean we can't learn from it.

"We often compare ourselves to the U.S. and often they come out the best, but they only have the right to bear arms while we have the right to bare breasts"
Bowser and Blue, Busting The Breast

Hm if I remember correctly, I do believe there IS a rotate and scale track on the timeline within the Transform section. (I've not looked in quite some time) However, the fact that a key is added EVERY TIME you move anything is EXTREMELY ANNOYING! This was one of the things I was really hoping they'd fix in 6 and they've yet to do it. (one of the reasons I've not upgraded.

Sometimes the timeline can be expanded to show more rows for keys, so the rotation and scale might be in there.

For characters, there is a timeline for each joint, so you can move each finger and stuff on its own timeline.

----------------------------------------------------
***BEST OF THE CORE**
:A music reel demonstrating the different types of music I produce for multimedia. Hope everyone enjoys.


Player not working? Use this link.

My other audio work.

Facebook page:

Creation begins at the core.

No audio, but there are more than enough when you have to edit them.

No flaming intended, and this may show you how many are actually available if you expand the options.

SKYPE ID: rc.650

http://city.reallusion.com/store/ModuleExpand.aspx?id=GS634545170497417354&mdid=18866

http://city.reallusion.com/ContentTag.aspx?tagname=Cricky&AuthorID=20081020688550191201#]Reallusion Store Content

" If I had Alzheimer's (Old Timers), would I know it? "

Thanks. Couple of comments:

1. They really like to hide things in iClone don't they. The Transform track seem to show if something has been transformed but instead of that track opening up to indicate the details you need to open up the Motion Layer.

2. This provides more information but still is not complete - in my opinion. For example, it goes down to Heidi | Motion Layer | Torso. So if I make any change to the Torso (position, rotation or scaling) this will show a key frame...but what I change is not indicated. For example, I created a key frame for torso at frame 30 and moved the torso to a new position. At frame 60 I created another key frame that rotated the torso. Both the key frames in the Torso track look identical. This is why I mentioned that Ani8or actually went down to the property level (i.e. Torso Pos X, Torso Pos Y, Torso Pos Z, Torso Rot X, etc).

3. It seems that this level of detail is only provided for Characters (Avatars?). When I import my object that has multiple parts (and I can use the Edit Animation Layer) to control each of these individual parts, there does not seem to be a Motion Layer to provide these details. There is an Animation Layer but it does not break down.

When you create a Key Frame what is it that is actually stored? All properties? Only properties that the user has manually changed? How can you tell which properties are keyed and which are not? For example, if I look at a frame and see that it is a key frame for Torso, how do I know if that was a Torso location change, Torso rotation or a Torso scaling?

"We often compare ourselves to the U.S. and often they come out the best, but they only have the right to bear arms while we have the right to bare breasts"
Bowser and Blue, Busting The Breast

Actually I have sort of a perfect example of this...

I just created a bunch of Perform Actions that rotate a security lock combination lock tumbler. So I created a Perform Action to change the tumbler from 0 to 1, 1 to 2, 2 to 3 because when I created a Perform Action to rotate it seemed to always rotate from an absolute number to another absolute number (instead of rotating by X degrees).

However, it still does not work. All of the Perform Actions seem to rotate my tumbler from 0 to 1. So I'd like to study the key frames to see what got recorded but I can't (as far as I know) all that iClone tells me is that there is some sort of a transformation at the key frames but what kind and from what value to what value is not clear.

"We often compare ourselves to the U.S. and often they come out the best, but they only have the right to bear arms while we have the right to bare breasts"
Bowser and Blue, Busting The Breast

@Lord Ashes

There was many threads about keyframe iclone system for many years. Lot of us request to reallusion developpers all access keyframe and timeline curve editor.
May be one day......
But for now you didn't miss anything , this all you can see in iclone about keyframe.

Thanks for the confirmation, I'm still new to iClone so may times the function is there but I just have not learned about it.

This was always my biggest issue wit DAZ. I'd create some animations and then they would somehow get screwed up and it was always a pain to try to figure out which key frames where affecting the problem.

"We often compare ourselves to the U.S. and often they come out the best, but they only have the right to bear arms while we have the right to bare breasts"
Bowser and Blue, Busting The Breast

For DAZ Studio I have additional buy Keymate and Graphmate
I would be Happy to have this in iClone too
With the Book Animator's Survival kit , I wanted create a walk cycle for my toon animal :D
It was not possible for me to do this in iClone. In DAZ it was a joy.
OK, for Drag Drop premade motion, tweaking, Lipsync and so on, is Iclone great but for handmade animation from scratch, still too limited.
I was hope RL improved this in iC 6 , but ...we will see .. :hehe:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
liebe Grüße vidi

meet us here