OK so... initially I use B2M with stunning effect. I love this software. Seems to make sense to me from start to finish and high praises to the programmer of this beast.

BUT...
On the table I see now...

This is incredibly appealing especially on the stone walling textures because (for those of you who're aware) I am working in Blender creating wall modules for a Qin dynasty garden from 2400 years ago (Which I think moves it into the Han Dynasty so it musty be 2200 years ago but never-the-less...) the demo video displayed stunning effects on texture...

Now, while I'm no newcomer to animation and texturing and doing the whole thing myself from "a" to "end" I am rather [not sure] about Substance Designer pack.

I see, Substance Designer, Substance Power and Super Substance Tools.

Those who know my work flow... what would you say of these was relevant to my output beneficiality. I ask  this because, and I say this at the outset, Blender is stunning.... the work I achieved on one wall alone as a solid non-modular element for the set was incredible and beautiful BUT...

iClone Primitives allowed me to make this in a fiftieth of the time Blender did with almost equal visual impact (as the prop suite of wall architecture is viewed from "afar" not as a close in study)

So this I understand. [Left.] b2M and I get on great. It looks daunting to a newcomer at first but really it isnt.  

Now..... I would like to know exactly what is it in this suite that iClone cannot do right now.

I know it sounds like a stupid question but the texture control right now in iClone is fabulous... With b2m I've been having parties over the effects.... but Substance Designer ... I feel Im missing something.  :crying:

Is the substance designer the blending of multiple textures and then after this allowing "bleed thru" of these to the surface... INSIDE iClone?

Confused....
Armstrong.

Hi Armstrong

As you already have B2M you might not need that but in the same package you get a ageing plug in and a decal plugin, both are very useful but the ageing one need you to produce a few maps before it will work.

Then you get 200 substances ranging from floors to walls and is a very good deal considering substances from the substance database are selling at around £130 per 100.

Now substance designer ... ITS AWSOME but it isn't easy to learn and would take years to truly learn. Knowing your workflow I would reckon you could get away with not having it.

The others would be a excellent addition to your work flow.



I Make My Mates Do The CanCan For The Amusement Of Killer Robots:D

Hi Armstrong,

It's hard to say whether Substance Designer will be useful for You or not...
Substance Designer is extremely powerful program, but it's rather specific and (for someone) hard to learn.
B2M is very good application, but, in fact, it's just substance filter "build in" Substance Player and it has limited set of functions oriented on material creation on the base of input bitmap.
Substance Designer is the program for creating substance filters and it has practically no limits.

Answering Your question -- Yes, it's possible to create custom substance filters in Substance Designer and then use them inside iClone, but take in count that current substance support in iClone has some limitations.

But, as I told, Substance Designer workflow is very specific and some way close to programming ideology. So I can advice to watch Substance Designer introduction tutorials on Allegorithmic site and make decision whether such workflow suitable for You or not.

There is another Allegorithmic product - Substance Painter. It's more friendly for leaning, so take a look on it too.

Cheers,

Vit

@armstrong,

from my understanding of what you're trying to do with the Chinese Gardens, probably the most productive way is:

a. Use iClone primitives where possible. You have already created many chinese garden props with these. It may not make a lot of sense to rebuilt them. Also, if a couple of seconds with iClone primitives does the job, probably doesn't make sense to fire up a modelling program to create mesh and import. Maybe it can save some polygons but sometimes it's not worth the effort. It really depends on your constraints.

b. use the 200 substances I think you've already purchased. These can be tweaked to have many permutations. It may not be necessary to create new substance templates from scratch and start a new cycle of learning curve. I bought them but haven't used them yet. Based on available info, it should be enough for most purposes.

c. Use Blender (which you are already using) to create props which requires too many workarounds by sticking with iClone primitives. (or cannot be created easily or at all). Texture it with your 200 substances within iClone.

But in this workflow, you or your client have to be happy with the aesthetics of the iC6 internal render for animations for now. Indigo stills is doable, but to create long animation with Indigo is not ideal for time being. (based on my experience in Jan, I have not tested the new patches workflow)

If you prefer a different type of look, Blender Cycles is pretty good but that will involve another learning curve of the shading system and also complexities in import / export fbx.

So in the long run, I also hope the iC6 + Indigo experience for creating animation is improved because my ideal workflow is

blender <-> ic6 -> either ic6 internal render or indigo render (depends on aesthetic requirements)

As for me, I'm avoiding adding more tools unless I really really really have to.
Even if my existing tool is slightly inferior to another tool, I prefer to work-around it rather than launch into another purchase / learning curve cycle.

I think our workflow have some similiarities? :D

Loved your chinese garden, hope to see new ones soon!

Hi Armstrong.

I am in a similar predicament. I already have B2M, which I think is great, but wonder what these new packs will add to the end result. Obviously the substance library is tempting, but given that B2M is provided as part of this package, it feels like I would be buying it twice.

I don't want to miss out on a good special offer, but still do not understand what visual improvement I can achieve with Substance Designer, that I can't get with B2M.

Tony

The Substance pack 200 allows you to change the look of your textures, adding cracks to walls, grass to grounds in a million different ways so your textures will never look the same as someone elses who hove the pack. B2M only makes a range of maps from a image.

Substance designer gives you all the tools you need to make your own substances but its not for the faint hearted.

The B2M plugin you get with the substance power 200 pack allows to to make the maps you can in B2M but does it all inside Iclone.



I Make My Mates Do The CanCan For The Amusement Of Killer Robots:D

You're right, not visual improvement. This package is just to speed up the pipeline.
200 textures template you can tweak to infinite ways and you can Animate!!! this texture in a very very easy way. You can change resolution without through an external image editor.
the B2m filter gives of course less features but it is soooo fast and easy.

Armstrong is smart...he can figure substance designer out easy enough if he wanted to, and i have no doubts his skills would take it to another level ...now whether he wants to invest the time in it ...is another question.

It's potentially a good market for creating original substances to sell - so I do encourage him to make time to learn it....it's powerful, and I'm sure he'd enjoy being able to profit from the time and money he invests to learn it.

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Its not that Armstrong is not smart enough to learn SD, its does he need to, I think the substance 200 tool kit is probably all he really needs (though if he can afford it get the full kit) and the B2M plugin alows him to stay within Iclone a lot more.

If you have tooooo much software you spend your time learning and updating and not producing.

The full kit from RL is AWSOME value for money and SD is AWSOME software but Armstrong asked if he needed it all.





I Make My Mates Do The CanCan For The Amusement Of Killer Robots:D

strangely enough as technical as it can get, it appeals to me because of it's creative aspects - colors, glows, things that go bump in the mesh!. :)

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