Double posting because I missed an entire page.

Ok to the entire thing about bloat features and all that stuff... Firstly, what is iClone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but iClone is a REALTIME ANIMATION and RENDERING program.

So, phyics, rigid and cloth... ANIMATING a character with IK would be great with that. Sun shafts and dynamic fog... RENDERING... that fits.

Now let's say they added something like... polygonal extrusion... uh... what? That's more of a modeling thing. Even if they added simple modeling features into iClone, that'd be odd because it's NOT a modeling program. Why do you think all the more complex rigging stuff is in 3DX and NOT iCLone. That's more of a rigging thing than an animating thing.

Now a duplication and cloning tool that's animatible would e good because it can be used to quickly set up a scene.

REALTIME ANIMATION and RENDERING.

Now I have to agree with SPD that an option to turn God Rays off would be good. Same for Motion Blur and stuff. I feel like all that stuff will either be in the Atmosphere or Effects section which you can easily turn the things in there on and off, so that will be granted already.

Also, to whoever said "We're getting DX11, so we'll automatically have God Rays." ... that really doesn't mean that.

We have DX9 now but there are a TON of things that DX9 can do that iCLone isn't doing, an example being *gasp* a light shafts post proccessing effect!

If we have true volumetric fog in iC6, I will upgrade instantaniously.

But we'll have to see. The next vdeo is going to be on dynamic textures... what's that mean? No flappin' clue, but we'll find out and I'm sure we'll be pleased.

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Hey I was mentioned!! KUPO!!!

(Kupo is a sound the creature in my avitar makes)

Anyhow, two things.

1. Screenspace light shafts have been around for some years now so there should be no reason it slows down the computer unless the computer's kind of old. Unity can do it, Unreal can do it, CryEngine can do it, everything can do it. You don't need DX11 to do it. It's a post proccessing shader effect. Just like the toon shader and the HDR shaders are.

HOWEVER

2. That is NOT true volumetric lighting which I've not seen in a realtime rendering engine yet. Yes it looks good, but as soon as you point the camera away from the lightsource or the lightsource is no longer in view of the camera, the rays go away. In most cases, this is no big deal, but in some you'll want the rays to be there. I think a combination of screen space light shafts and light shaft props would work really well together.

There are only two GPU powered engines I've seen full volumetric fog and lighting in and that's Cycles and Octane. (Please let Octane be a plugin for iClone as an offline renderer)... anyhow...

I have seen some VERY RECENT games ( I don't think they're even out yet) that can light particles and I have seen light shafts done in MachStudio Pro (anyone remember that lol)

But that's pretty new tech (and I think MachStudio was doing a screen space thing and if they werent, it was taxing on the graphics card)

So then for the moment, screen space light shfts would work just fine for the most part.

Ya know, I don't know why there aren't more post shader effects in iClone.

RL, why aren't there anymore. You know they'd be widely appreciated.

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Exactly.... & it's called Yebis middleware.... I think? I hope!!:w00t::hehe:

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Thanks, Job.

I was thinking about that while typing.  I also could see a use for saving some individual things almost like you would a prop, too.  Sort of a "My favorite fog" setting that's independent from all the other things contained in "Atmosphere."

Excellent point, though.  Thanks for the reminder.

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Currently, saving an Atmosphere saves lighting, fog, HDR settings, etc. These can then be reused in another project.

Caveat: positional lighting (spotlights, point lights) will end up in the same location in the new scene, which may not be where you want them.

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Sifr (6/13/2014)

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In non-technical terms, to create "God rays":

1. Add fog
2. Shine light through it

.

That's based on my assumption of technical stuff like volumetric lighting support, courtesy of implementing DX11.

.

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What might be nice would be to have some pre-defined fog settings, like:

• Heavy morning mist
• Dusty attic
• Bejing Smog
• Meadow God rays
• Smoke screen
• Belching smokestack

You could pick a pre-defined setting, and fine-tune the settings if you want.

Actually, I like this idea.  The should do the same with lighting:

• Noon sun
• Dawn/Dusk sun
• Desk lamp
• Flourescent lights
• Candle
• Flashlight
• Television glow
• Fireplace or campfire
• Streetlamp

Give us a dozen or twenty distinctively different lights to pick from, and allow us to then modify the brigtness, range, color, angle, and other details.

Lastly, for both lights and fog, allow us to easily SAVE our custom settings for use in other projects.

.

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it's one thing to say - ok, I'm finished with my idea ....it's time to render - so turn on the rays and motion blur ....and set it to render while we go to dinner...

it's quite another to say - OMG - it's taking over 1/2 hour to load up my project and I'm going to lose inspiration and my ideas by the time iclone recalculates all the lighting :crazy:


the techies don't care, they don't have any original ideas they might forget and they are charging their clients by the hour! techies don't have moments of inspiration, they have coffee! rofl :p "Look man, I'm not writing your movie for you, just tell me what you want and pay my rate...thanks!"

techies are the zombies of entertainment!! They get paid very good money to not have an original idea and do things by the book! - then you have the day vampires....those are the guys who are technically inclined artists, they don't do things by the book! Then of course you have the regular vampires, all artists that are scared of computers and hire an army of zombies to do their will. :alien:

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I created another request thread, simply asking for options to be able to turn things off / on to conserve resources.

Honestly, i love all the ideas you are bringing up, I just dread things becoming time consuming, especially when I'm not using any advanced options.

Imo - to avoid the bloat syndrome I always speak of... the creative workflow should be the biggest focus - that said, anything that takes up resources which in turn slows down rendering or real time - should be somewhat modular - where I can disconnect it when I'm not using it. Not hard wired into my workflow or system resources. I don't want to hear, "but that's just how it works" because it doesn't have to work that way. create, then polish, in that order.

but if you know me, I do in fact want everything, I'm biting my tongue of all the things I really wish i had in iclone ...for the sake of not sitting down and twiddling my thumb waiting for iclone to take 5 minutes to do what it use to take 30 seconds.

Another motive that is making me say that ...is I've been noticing iclone getting a little slower with every new release - like with this release and 3DX5 - it takes way longer to load up things - those time increases have to stop .....and things have to start being modular so simple tasks don't take forever. If i want to add God rays or motion blurs to my scene ....then allow me the option to add them last - so they don't bog me down when I'm not using them.


it would be silly to compete vs c4d, modo, autodesk in quality and features ...

but it would be pure pwnage if we focused on keeping the ability to make scenes blazing fast to cater to artists ...not techies. - especially if we had a tight pipeline to an "industry Standard" software for advanced render options...- all the major softwares would have to completely rebuild their software and UI just to compete with us on that level.


so I guess the real issue I'm pointing at is not what they implement, but how they implement it.

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I do believe this discussion is the expansion part you mention, the part of iClone designed for "new comers" has been there since day one and will always be there, the "pro" part you refer to is constantly improved upon since, so the resources will continue to be resources improved upon for professional caliber workflows in a new comer package for example.....



Here he explains the god ray creation process in a bunch of pro workflow concept terms, for the fifty-eleventh time, and it can be even more technical, but to a new comer he may have no idea how to recreate this effect... too complex. Now it would be great to have a god ray button... the easy button for the home hobbyist consumer, who by the way may play consumer games on pro hardware just for fps. on max benchmark kicks.

But that's all based on an assumption.



There is lighting features in iClone already correct? What harm is it seeing how great rays look in iClone in "post", which by the way is a feature in iClone as well. Camera and lighting makes or breaks a shot point blank, and perceived quality is enhanced as well which is why you seek alternative "specialized" programs. Yebis is specialized middleware that can be integrated to enhance the already available features in iClone, like Human-IK middleware which is now integrated in iClone by the way. Did you notice a performance hit from that? probably not. Can you imagine iClone without Human-IK? probably not anymore, what specialized software did you use to solve the Human-IK issue previous to iClone integration?.... see where I'm going.

I don't feel this is "bloat" when things like better physics and cloth sim have already been confirmed additions(out of the way issues you don't have to do somewhere else now... hopefully) So what makes suggesting unconfirmed features that you obviously feel are lacking in iClone "bloat" when it is specifically designed to give you the output you desire in iClone post. And if these other programs you mention cost the price of an iClone upgrade it's a no brainer, besides, a new comer would rather learn new features in a familiar, user friendly ui environment like iClone, than to learn new features in new, unfamiliar, more difficult to use ui environment, like Hitfilm or Sony, I'm sure. In a nut shell, the time spent having to use two programs, especially if one has a steeper learning curve than iClone, long run, may be a performance hit in itself, when it can all be as simple as "god-ray button" or as complex as light+fog=godray or even more complex.... but from with in iClone.... for noobs, of course. ;) :w00t:

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Yes, I am confident (though I don't have any insider knowledge) that this will be a "natural" effect of the DX11 support.

They have stated their fog is being completely re-worked.  Same with their lighting.

If you have "DX11 fog" for lack of a better term, and shine a light through it, you should get your God Rays.  Thus I see no need for a "God Ray feature" to be added.

But that's all based on an assumption.

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
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