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By deidrereaystudios - 3 Years Ago
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There have already been a ton of forum posts around the Newest EULA issues, and considering i have not received in 2 weeks a response from reallusion through Email figure I will open discussion here.
NEW EULA LINK for those that need a reference.
Issue for me as a longtime user and indie game developer is of course around not using content for character creation in games (without and enterprise license which i can not get an email to discuss, nor is it even listed which could be horrifyingly expensive).
So few questions as to maybe clarify more for others like myself.
1.) If a user does not sign the new EULA what happens then? Is a user then stuck with previous EULA agreement, no longer able to purchase new content, or not able to update their software? What is the situation at that point? (I myself have not signed the new EULA as basically finished with CC3 and my games workflow).
2.) Anyone have any idea on the price of said ENTERPRISE license? Case by case seems to me ability to charge whatever to whomever. I hope I am wrong and it is just a set amount of money that is understandable, but does anyone have a clue on the price?
3.) Is there a way to actually get a response in email from "SALES" to discuss some of this? Have tried twice and its been weeks at this point.
I am under the assumption no one is forced to agree to an EULA that complete would ruin ones small business and product (anyone of us that have a GAME CREATION this is now a NO unless you pay more.....) , but perhaps I am mistaken.
Would love for some input and clarity as this all seems a serious issue to me personally, but also many others.
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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Frankly, there is no financial benefit to you not accepting the EULA.
If you mean the products you purchased before the licenses changed, the CC components you purchased with the export license should have been upgraded to the extended license free of charge. Therefore, you no longer need to request a Mass distribution license from RL for game distribution.
Since the Export license has now been removed, if you want to purchase any CC components from the stores, you have to choose one of the 2 available licenses.
Apart from that, there is not much difference between the old license and the new license.
ENTERPRISE license has been added as an extra if you want to allow users to customize their characters in the games you have developed or if you want full ownership of a character. I think this license pricing may vary depending on the features you want.
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By Peter (RL) - 3 Years Ago
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deidrereaystudios (10/18/2022)
1.) If a user does not sign the new EULA what happens then? Is a user then stuck with previous EULA agreement, no longer able to purchase new content, or not able to update their software? What is the situation at that point? (I myself have not signed the new EULA as basically finished with CC3 and my games workflow).
You do not need to sign anything. By installing and using the software and content you are agreeing to the terms of the EULA. If you do not agree, then you should not install or use the software or content.
2.) Anyone have any idea on the price of said ENTERPRISE license? Case by case seems to me ability to charge whatever to whomever. I hope I am wrong and it is just a set amount of money that is understandable, but does anyone have a clue on the price?
Enterprise licenses are issued on a case-by-case basis. There isn't a fixed price. The price is negotiated based on how Reallusion's content will be integrated into the game or apps character creator or character generation system.
3.) Is there a way to actually get a response in email from "SALES" to discuss some of this? Have tried twice and its been weeks at this point.
I am under the assumption no one is forced to agree to an EULA that complete would ruin ones small business and product (anyone of us that have a GAME CREATION this is now a NO unless you pay more.....) , but perhaps I am mistaken.
If you have not received a response from the sales team via email, please use the Support Form below. The support form is the recommended way to get support from all departments and you will normally receive a reply within 48 hours Monday to Friday.
https://www.reallusion.com/CustomerSupport/UserEx/QForm.html
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By deidrereaystudios - 3 Years Ago
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I believe perhaps I am confused. Reading the EULA it states that a Standard License one can not use in Games for characters creation, but with an Extended license I quote "To use a character made by CC Component content for any game, application, or AR/VR project. You may include the character in your game or APP in a way that the model may be manipulated or interacted with." That to me sounds like if you own the extended license you can use however you wish? Can you verify this Peter that as long as Extended license is owned we can Have character creations, selection, or use the CC ASSET with its license in any way we choose to have it manipulated or interacted with? 
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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In fact, although these questions have been answered many times on the forum, they can still be quite confusing as the license changes are new.
First of all, I would recommend that you take a look at the following topic.
https://forum.reallusion.com/525631/Content-License-Policy
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By deidrereaystudios - 3 Years Ago
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No offense that does not answer the question. Where in that EULA does it state we need beyond an extended license for character creation, manipulation, etc?
It literally states under Standard license restrictions no in app character generation. Under extended license there is no such restriction. Hence I am at a loss how one would need an enterprise license for games at any rate.
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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First of all, a standard license is sufficient for video and picture productions.
You can produce unlimited videos and images and use them commercially.
You can use animations, props and some CC components that do not have an extended license option in video, image, game and application production with an unlimited standard license.
In order to use some CC components (Hair, clothes, etc.) unlimitedly in games and applications, you should choose the extended license when purchasing these products.
Enterprise license is required if you want to allow players to customize their characters in games and apps, or for some extra rights.
It's not a character choice.
Character customization.
For example, users can change the character's skin color, hair, and clothes.
If you will not allow character customization in the game or application you have developed, you do not need this license.
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By Peter (RL) - 3 Years Ago
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[b]Can you verify this Peter that as long as Extended license is owned we can Have character creations, selection, or use the CC ASSET with its license in any way we choose to have it manipulated or interacted with?
Unfortunately, neither Standard nor Extended licenses allow in-game character creation. The only license that allows you to use Reallusion content in an in-game or in-app character creator is the Enterprise license.
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By lowejohn7 - 3 Years Ago
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and could you finally define char creation?
also, you say you should not install the software if you do not agree with the EULA the software was already installed before the change so you are saying that now that you changed the EULA i should uninstall my software then peter ? interesting stance
remember the license was made easier to understand LAMO
no one seems able to get a straight answer about the license and i have tried many times so for me i can prove that i have gone far out of my way to get answers that have not been forth coming and ignored so falls under not understanding for my country
also, any change to the EULA must be by mutual consent of both parties in my country anyway did you get my consent
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By 3dSphinx - 3 Years Ago
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@lowe
If it helps because it can become quite convoluted...
What they mean is you can use Character Creator to make the characters for your game but if you want a feature in your game where the player customizes the character (Like Cyberpunk or GTA character generator)using Reallusion Marketplace/Content store content such as morphs, hair, beards or clothes it would require being granted an Enterprise License. But if you make a character that isn't being changed like characters in Detroit: Become Human where the focus isn't on customization and dressing up your character the Extended would suffice for unlimited use of the content whereas Standard is for 1 single use content on one character.
So for you protagonist in a game you have the Standard License and you use the Bob hair. You can only use it on the protagonist in the game and you can't use it on multiple characters within that game. That same hair once used for that game couldn't be used on another character for another game unless you are using the same character.
With the Extended license you wouldn't have to worry about how many times you use the content because you have unlimited usage right. If you don't want to try to get the Enterprise License to have character generating in your game the only ither route you may be able to go is making the morphs, clothes and hair if you want a customization system. That is from the email they sent however.
Section 2.2 A.B.BThey said only manipulation of the model which could possibly mean anything only the base character mesh and not the other elements. Or the whole character. But only they can confirm. But I know the email they sent does adjust the terms.
But if you already waived the need for your consent it wouldn't matter. It's common practice of companies in the States to have a clause in the agreement that they may make changes and are only obligated to let you know the change. Then by using the product you agree to it. So you would have to see if the Eula you agreed to states that somewhere.
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By lowejohn7 - 3 Years Ago
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SugarMoxie (10/18/2022)
@lowe
If it helps because it can become quite convoluted...
What they mean is you can use Character Creator to make the characters for your game but if you want a feature in your game where the player customizes the character (Like Cyberpunk or GTA character generator)using Reallusion Marketplace/Content store content such as morphs, hair, beards or clothes it would require being granted an Enterprise License. But if you make a character that isn't being changed like characters in Detroit: Become Human where the focus isn't on customization and dressing up your character the Extended would suffice for unlimited use of the content whereas Standard is for 1 single use content on one character.
So for you protagonist in a game you have the Standard License and you use the Bob hair. You can only use it on the protagonist in the game and you can't use it on multiple characters within that game. That same hair once used for that game couldn't be used on another character for another game unless you are using the same character.
With the Extended license you wouldn't have to worry about how many times you use the content because you have unlimited usage right. If you don't want to try to get the Enterprise License to have character generating in your game the only other route you may be able to go is making the morphs, clothes and hair if you want a customization system.
I have said this many times now each country has different laws and that is your interpretation of the new EULA coming from your country's laws and your understanding of them and I respect that.
I asked some very specific questions about their definition of the in-game shop and in-game customization. After many weeks of going round and round with them, I could not get an answer very much felt like no one actually knows the answer. They say no in-app purchases they do not say with real money or fake money or tokens, I asked if they now considered purchases from a game shop ( no real money involved ) would be considered by them as an in-game purchase one response was yes one was no. You could interpret it to say that a crafting bench in an MMORPG is an in-game transaction and therefore not allowed. I asked all these questions and was told that their knowledge on the subject was not good enough and i was given an email to email my questions to I did that and the response back was back to the ticket process back to another person who could not answer the questions. Which falls right into no clear definition of what the EULA stands for and lucky for me my country covers this
I asked how they were going to handle it if i supplied a client with some models and did some work for them and in 3 years time, they shifted the business model and went with in-app purchases or years after release did the same. I also asked how this would affect the current projects i had already gained mass distribution licenses for.
I asked if when i had done some free lance work there were no plans to have in-app customization and i did not work on it but 3 years down the line they got someone else to make a customization system that i never worked on.
They also could not give me any idea how much it would cost me for the license
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By 3dSphinx - 3 Years Ago
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Yea, I can understand your frustration on that and as I said in another thread. For me it would be best I don't invest in the market anymore because just as your thinkg what if there is a change again in the future. I don't have time for that.
But I don't see it in the new EULA so most likely wasn't in the old one. But there is a second agreement thing I believe but can't locate it yet.
**** Found it****
The EULA AP which is the second part has the 3D Models Limitation in Section 5 of the EULA.
So they have the Content EULA that falls under the EULA for Animation Tools.
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By Peter (RL) - 3 Years Ago
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lowejohn7 (10/18/2022)
and could you finally define char creation?
Any in-game system that creates a character from a selection of different options such as (but not limited to) changing skin color, hair, clothing, body size and so on.
also, you say you should not install the software if you do not agree with the EULA the software was already installed before the change so you are saying that now that you changed the EULA i should uninstall my software then peter ? interesting stance
Not an interesting stance, it's the standard in terms of license agreements. When you install any app on your phone or software on your computer it will either ask you to agree to the EULA or it will explain that using the software means you are agreeing to the EULA. If you don't agree, then you can't use the app or software. This applies to virtually all software from operating systems to games.
However, what we are discussing here are changes to the Content EULA not the AP (Program) EULA which you already had installed. So, as you probably know any applicable exportable content you had prior to the change in the Content EULA was automatically upgraded to the Extended License. This means that it is only content purchased after the change in the EULA that is affected by the changes.
So now the Content EULA has changed you of course have the right to say I don't agree to the new changes in the EULA and can choose not to purchase any further content. However, if you do purchase content, then you are agreeing to abide by the revised Content EULA.
no one seems able to get a straight answer about the license and i have tried many times so for me i can prove that i have gone far out of my way to get answers that have not been forth coming and ignored so falls under not understanding for my country
If you ask me a question, I will certainly try to give you a straight answer. :)
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By Peter (RL) - 3 Years Ago
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deidrereaystudios (10/18/2022)
I believe perhaps I am confused. Reading the EULA it states that a Standard License one can not use in Games for characters creation, but with an Extended license I quote "To use a character made by CC Component content for any game, application, or AR/VR project. You may include the character in your game or APP in a way that the model may be manipulated or interacted with." That to me sounds like if you own the extended license you can use however you wish? Can you verify this Peter that as long as Extended license is owned we can Have character creations, selection, or use the CC ASSET with its license in any way we choose to have it manipulated or interacted with?
Please refer to the page below. We have tried to clear up any confusion by listing specifically what is allowed and what is not allowed under each license type.
https://www.reallusion.com/license/content.html
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By deidrereaystudios - 3 Years Ago
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Thanks for helping Peter. Finally got some dialogue going from support, sales, and you were very helpful as always. Seems to be the case that this EULA made some things easy and clear as day. While the main thing its seems everyone confused about, or frustrated is the CHARACTER CREATION needing something extra. Seems to still be fine to use all of our previously purchased export license clothing, characters , and the like on as many projects as possible. Just cant do character creation without Enterprise License.
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