|
By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
|
So I was bringing in a Daz character (Dark Guard) for someone who was having issues with it and the first thing I noticed was how great all the skin details were (I used a custom ini to get all the skin stuff through Transformer):
Note that the "shininess" is supposed to be like this -- this guy has been working out (or is just sweaty, or something :>). Anyway, my first thought was to change it to the Digital Human Head texture, and I got this:
Which I don't like nearly as much. Okay, so I need to add some of that shine back. I drill down to the roughness and add some micro roughness level, and end up with this:
which, while better, I still don't like as much as the original PBR texture, which seems to have more "grit" or realism or something. Am I missing something crucial? Should I be doing things to improve the DHH to get it looking like the first image, or is it merely a matter of preference (because for this guy I much prefer the PBR texture)?
|
|
By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 6 Years Ago
|
|
DH is definitely more natural to my eyes. But you forgot to change the eyes. Replace those with native DH ones.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
|
Oh, I replaced the eyes already (after this). But you raise an interesting point (and one which shows me how often those posts of "here's how to get things natural" whether it's lighting, shaders, or whatever leaves me cold): I CLEARLY prefer the less natural look. I mean, look at this guy. No way this guy exists in Real Life. To try and emulate a "natural" look is just foolish.
iClone/CC3 are for all kinds of folks, but for me I don't really want to try and get to that uncanny valley -- I don't want people to see that failure (and it will ALWAYS be failure -- if Hollywood can't do it, neither can we, and CGI is not nearly as good as live action no matter what the platform or situation).
But thanks, Guy, that just confirms it for me. I won't waste my time anymore on trying to get "real" but to make something folks will be entertained by (and, of course, to each their own).
|
|
By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 6 Years Ago
|
Clearly, here, we are on the "preference" level of discussion, and clearly to me, at least on this one, you have a bad taste to prefer the PBR one over the DH one.
But so far so good, we both have the right to have our own tastes and to disagree.
But saying "Should I be doing things to improve the DHH to get it looking like the first image" clearly shows that you think your taste is the norm, which to me is not of course, and there is no way you can "improve" the DH shader to get it looking like the first image, this would need "downgrading" the quality of the DH shader instead. So why would you want to "improve" the DH shader if the PBR one is already ok to you ?
You said "I won't waste my time anymore on trying to get "real", so, what does it means ? That at first you tried to make it real ? Or not ? Because if you did, then in that case we are not anymore on a preference/taste level of discussion and here, clearly, the DH one is better.
Again you have all the rights to stand by your tastes, but understand that trying to justifying those - as soon as someone criticize those - by saying you are not trying to look "real" or "natural" or even "good" and that your only point of reference is your taste itself is just arbitrary and closes the door to any further discussion because "that's my tastes so I am right anyway, whatever". Right.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
|
As usual, Guy, you say things and I *think* they should mean something but they don't.
Let's just end this by saying that I think you are very very wrong (as I think you are about most things) and I'm sure you feel the same about me. This is a bit like a political discussion where you miss the point completely and there's no way we can reach agreement because we are so far apart. Please go your way and stop bothering me (or to put it more politely, if you don't understand what I'm trying to say, stop trying to tell me what I AM saying -- we used to call this mindf#$$ing but I have no idea what your generation calls it).
(Oh, and I understand a whole lot of fanboys want to make their SF movies look "realistic" and fail to understand those things only appeal to other fanboys. I'm looking to reach a completely different audience here and the DHH shader *could* be improved to offer what I want and I will talk directly to the devs for that point).
|
|
By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 6 Years Ago
|
|
Well, time for a few home truths it seems :)
You are pissed off, I can understand that, I usually do that effect on peoples who have hard time to sustain a coherent and well argued discussion, and have bad faith especially when confronted to the obvious facts they made a mistake or said something wrong (Like you did recently in another thread: "../.. There are no "bones" attached to the eyes ../.." but there you had no choice but to remain silent once confronted to solid proof).
You pretend I am very wrong about most things. Well, that should be easy then: prove me wrong. At least just once. Can you ? I bet you can't. Or you will probably only refer to your own tastes and adopt that patronizing attitude you are used to, under the pretext you are old and a long timer iCloner (well, guess what, I was here before you).
On my side, no, I don't feel the same, I don't pretend you are always wrong, you have produced some very useful tutorials, very helpful for the community, thanks for that, but sometimes you make mistakes - and that's ok, we are all humans after all - and there is nothing wrong if me or someone else is pointing at those mistakes and try to correct those. Sometimes it is a bit worth than that, you make mistakes but in a way pretending you know what you are talking about, while you obviously don't. And sometimes it is even worth, you engage your preferred "weapon" of massive discussions with your famous "You don't understand what I am saying or what I am trying to say". Right, I forgot, you are an ex-genius and everybody else are idiots, especially those who are not agree with you.
Anyway, what I pretend though, is that you have bad tastes, and that's ok, it's just my opinion after all. No big deal.
I won't stop "bothering" you (even though that's not my intent) because when you ask for advice or opinions I have to right to participate, whether you like my answers or not and if, on your side, you expect to have fanboys who say "Amen" to everything you say in every threads then sorry, not with me, I'm not a fan.
Your last statement lets me speechless: "../.. the DHH shader *could* be improved to offer what I want and I will talk directly to the devs for that point ../..". I'm not sure you even realize how does it sound, as blinded by your ego as you are. I'm pretty sure the devs are wiser than that and won't downgrade the DH shaders to make those look like the PBR ones just for your own satisfaction though.
|
|
By Ryan Hayle - 6 Years Ago
|
|
This is a very subjective question. PBR and Digital Human Head are both shaders I believe at the end of the day with different bells and whistles. It reminds me of TVs when you turn it on for the first time and it is super bright and sharp, before you start looking into setting it up with a more natural colour, while others don't touch the settings. Likewise with this, I am blown away with the PBR at first and then I slowly start to notice how unnatural it can be, e.g. the ear looks so shiny that it looks like it has been made from plastic at Madame Tussauds. I would say just go with what you like.
|
|
By justaviking - 6 Years Ago
|
@Ryan - Applying subsurface scattering (SSS) should help a lot to reduce the "plastic" appearance of the skin.
|
|
By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 6 Years Ago
|
|
justaviking (12/30/2019)
@Ryan - Applying subsurface scattering (SSS) should help a lot to reduce the "plastic" appearance of the skin.
This is precisely the purpose of the Digital Human Shaders (along with Micro Normals).
|
|
By justaviking - 6 Years Ago
|
GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS (12/30/2019)
justaviking (12/30/2019)
@Ryan - Applying subsurface scattering (SSS) should help a lot to reduce the "plastic" appearance of the skin.
This is precisely the purpose of the Digital Human Shaders (along with Micro Normals).
Yes it is, and it works well.
|
|
By ultimativity - 6 Years Ago
|
@Kelleytoons when I look at the left ear of the figure in the image you like, the skin looks like it has stronger AO. Even the right ear, which looks "dead" and unshiny still captures more of the grey tone in the shadows. I have been comparing the shader settings over in DAZ with the available settings in iClone 7 DH. Still experimenting. Caught a bit of it here on her ears.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
|
Yeah, maybe I wasn't too clear but I don't *dislike* the DHH. And for many avatars its fine. Just not on the one I posted. I was only curious because, to me, it was SO unlikable compared to using DHH. Now -- it did have more maps (and perhaps even an AO, I'd have to look) than a normal Daz. But the roughness of him was just not at all good when using the DHH.
In some ways this is like using normals and roughness on young female avatars -- they nearly always look better with the normals dialed back, whereas men look better with that texture (somewhat akin to the old studio days when all women were photographed through softfocus and/or vaseline covered lenses). Some avatars just look better in different ways. I was just surprised I couldn't get the DHH to make this one particular one look the way I wanted it to.
|
|
By ultimativity - 6 Years Ago
|
|
I hear you. The first image definitely looked were manly.
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 6 Years Ago
|
|
Have you tried making a custom roughness map? I came up with a technique in photoshop for custom roughness and normal and it works wonders. I can make a tutorial if you are interested.
|
|
By toystorylab - 6 Years Ago
|
|
Dorothy Jean (12/31/2019)
I can make a tutorial if you are interested.
Sounds interesting ;)
|
|
By ultimativity - 6 Years Ago
|
|
@Dorothy Jean yes please
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 6 Years Ago
|
|
Sweet! Ill work on that this morning!
|
|
By TonyDPrime - 6 Years Ago
|
@KT - I think Guy was onto something here:
-the PBR eyes (as you had them in the photos) might look a better match with the more striking PBR shader...
-but, once you have the DH eyes, the PBR roughness may seem to strong, and possibly the DH shader now works better.
Essentially, the PBR-roughness may better match the PBR-eyes, and a DH-roughness may better match the DH-eyes.
Maybe repost a comparison with the DH eyes, and then the PBR roughness vs DH roughness?
|
|
By Warped Reality VFX - 6 Years Ago
|
Hello, Ultimativity and anyone else interested I have made a tutorial on the DHH shader and how to create the maps and use the shader on any character or object, not just the cc characters if you missed the post.
https://forum.reallusion.com/429273/Digital-human-shader-Tutorial
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 6 Years Ago
|
For anyone who is interested, here is a tutorial on how to make custom normal and roughness maps.
|
|
By denclink - 5 Years Ago
|
Very helpful.
Thanks for your effort
|
|
By denclink - 5 Years Ago
|
Very Helpful
Thanks for your effort
|
|
By rogyru - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Dorothy Jean (12/31/2019)
For anyone who is interested, here is a tutorial on how to make custom normal and roughness maps.
Thanks for takeing the time to make this its helpful. Maybe you should post it in the headshot forum as well ?
https://forum.reallusion.com/Character-Creator/Headshot-Plugin
|
|
By ultimativity - 5 Years Ago
|
@Kevin L and @Dorothy Jean,
Thanks so much for posting these tutorials.
|