PERCEPTION NEURON competitor

PERCEPTION NEURON competitor

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https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic255075.aspx

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By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Hehe..... Sooo predictible...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2132274632/salto-captures-your-every-move-vr-ar-film-vfx-gami

By james_muia - 11 Years Ago

This is good news! I like having choices and ultimately, the more competition the less costly it will be for the end user.

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

As impressive as it is, there'll be some hidden "gotcha" that'll make it incompatible in iClone, either via a pipeline or just plain not work with it... Yeah, I'm feeling rather pessimistic today... :(

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

there'll be some hidden "gotcha" that'll make it incompatible in iClone

The App export BHV or FBX. No problem to import in iclone via 3dxchange.

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

there'll be some hidden "gotcha" that'll make it incompatible in iClone

The App export BHV or FBX. No problem to import in iclone via 3dxchange.

Except depending on where the BVH or FBX came from, importing either is most certainly not a trouble free exercise.

By jlittle - 11 Years Ago

The problem with a suit is one size does not fit all.
(Looks almost like a wet suit)

I'd rather have the strap on sensors where I can locate as needed and as many or as little as desired and be easily replaced in case of a failure.
Maybe a little more cumbersome but more flexible.

Jeff

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Except depending on where the BVH or FBX came from

Seriously, did you see their page???

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/87873b14-9eca-45f9-9047-2632.jpg

if unity, unreal, source, motion builder can import it what's the problem???

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

Except depending on where the BVH or FBX came from

Seriously, did you see their page???

if unity, unreal, source, motion builder can import it what's the problem???

Are you a newcomer to RL and IC. If anything could possibly go wrong with an import, it most certainly will. The skeleton could be different, and as such might require massive bone re-targeting. There are a myriad of different versions for both FBX and BVH, and just because a game engine can import it (again still requiring bone retargeting), there is no guarantee RL, IC, or 3DX will be able to seamlessly import them.

By vidi - 11 Years Ago

I would only think so negative , if 3D xchange do not make a good job always , but it does and even better as the big boys.I can not see any problem here :D

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Are you a newcomer to RL and IC

Since 2010. 3dxchange is the tool to retarget bones to non-standard iclone skeleton. You can import lot of skeleton with extra bones with whatever name.That's why they create 3dxchange. I retarget nearly every humanoid skeleton with 3dxchange. And by the way in the game field the norm of skeleton is nearly the same for all game engine.....

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

Are you a newcomer to RL and IC

For the average user, who is not a 3D whizkid, re-targeting bones is a painfully tedious process, and as such many users will not do an import of an FBX or BVH because of the re-targeting process. Remember, iClone was originally intended a a movie making platform for those who didn;t necessarily want to get heavy into 3D production, modeling, texturing, rendering, etc... And yet with every release of IC, this is becoming less & less true. This is what I meant by this new motion capture suit and it's output will most likely involve a great deal of tweaking, re-targeting, and trial & error to get it successfully into IC.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

For the average user, who is not a 3D whizkid, re-targeting bones is a painfully tedious process

Ok this message is for all newbees of Iclone. Don't be affraid about retargeting bones.
I'm a very newbee in CG , i'm a only good animator and video editing is my job.
I really don't understand what is UV, rigging, skinning, conforming..etc , and I really don't understand what swooop , Vidi , wendy said in their post because it's for very advance people.
For UV I use 3dcoat because you can paint and texture without UV knowledge. I use the mixamo autorig character and knowledge is no required (8 clicks), and today we have CC for character.
I use plantfactory to create my own plant because there's a very easy draw plant feature.
Finally , retargeting skeleton in Iclone is very easy no skills requierd :
(it start at 1:00)

By Rampa - 11 Years Ago

No fingers!
I kind of think the strap-on system will stay in place better than this suit, but suits are pretty common.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Another one sarted at 1:00 (old 3dxchange but same for version 6)

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

wizaerd (9/23/2015)

Its good to be pessimistic some times, but we have already been in touch with a iClone user and we are able to interface with most applications so far. Our product is generic in terms of interfacing. The only requirement we have is that it is able to create a network socket or even a wired USB connection, and from that point be able to consume either Quaternions or Euler angles. I cannot get into specifics as i am not familiar with iClone at the moment.

Best, Maziar
CTO of Rokoko Electronics and Salto3D.

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

jlittle (9/23/2015)

The wet suit you are seeing on our campaign is not the final textile design we are going to produce, but the early prototype which was a proof-of-concept. We are currently working on a light-weight textile which is more versatile and comes in different sizes. Please follow our campaign for more updates on this matter.

Best, Maziar.

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

rampa (9/23/2015)

No fingers!
I kind of think the strap-on system will stay in place better than this suit, but suits are pretty common.

We are integrating the same great features of a strap system into a complete suit, so our users can easily drop into the suit like their normal clothes.

Best, Maziar.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Wow! Thank you very much to be here Mazia!

Thanks for you mail too :-)

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

wizaerd (9/23/2015)

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

Except depending on where the BVH or FBX came from

Seriously, did you see their page???

if unity, unreal, source, motion builder can import it what's the problem???

We are open to suggestions and if you have any worries we will try to address them in our tech roadmap.

Best, Maziar.

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

Wow! Thank you very much to be here Mazia!

Thanks for you mail too :-)

We have only been on Kickstarter for 2 days and its really overwhelming with all the curios and interested people out there. I will hang around here and try to answer your questions as good as possible.

Im glad to hear, please give me a ping if you have any questions! :-)

Best, Maziar.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

@mzamani

We are open to suggestions and if you have any worries we will try to address them in our tech roadmap

May you can post a fbx file of 10 second animation? I will integrate it in iclone and post a video.

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

@mzamani

We are open to suggestions and if you have any worries we will try to address them in our tech roadmap

May you can post a fbx file of 10 second animation? I will integrate it in iclone and post a video.

We will provide you with this as soon as we have our new prototype, i have posted a feature request on the iClone in our software roadmap.

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

Soooo... You mentioned Fuse... I too own Fuse, and I'm curious if you'd share a video of your pipeline and process of getting a Fuse character into iClone? I know we have the CC, but there are other things I really like about Fuse, but I've only attempted to get it into iClone once, and it was a dismal failure.

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

For the average user, who is not a 3D whizkid, re-targeting bones is a painfully tedious process

By jlittle - 11 Years Ago

mzamani (9/23/2015)

I will definitely keep an eye on this.

Will there be a separate top and bottom (i.e. shirt & pants) to be able to get the correct size needed in each area?
Will the material be somewhat stretchable to fit different sizes?
Will the sensors/electronics be replaceable or are they sown into the fabric?

Jeff

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

jlittle (9/23/2015)

mzamani (9/23/2015)

The suit will be a one-piece, but you will be able to "roll down" the legs if necessary. We are not completely certain if they will be detachable, but we are working very hard on the textile design as we speak and will update the project with prototypes.

There will be several sizes (M, L, XL), so we are not working with one size fits all. Please note that the swim suit is only a prototype and we are moving away from this tight solution.

All electronic parts will be replaceable. We will sell spare parts as soon as the products have been shipped out to our backers.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

@Wizaerd

It takes 3 clicks to convert Fuse character to non-standard. If you want viseme , click on expression panel to set it.

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

@Wizaerd

It takes 3 clicks to convert Fuse character to non-standard. If you want viseme , click on expression panel to set it.

So to lip synch, you have to actually set/create each viseme, right? Is the face animatible via the facial puppeteering?

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

you have to actually set/create each viseme, right?

Yes

Is the face animatible via the facial puppeteering?

yes

By JC Weatherby - 11 Years Ago

wizaerd (9/23/2015)

mtakerkart (9/23/2015)

@Wizaerd

It takes 3 clicks to convert Fuse character to non-standard. If you want viseme , click on expression panel to set it.

So to lip synch, you have to actually set/create each viseme, right? Is the face animatible via the facial puppeteering?

You guys may want to check THIS PAGE on the Mixamo/Fuse site - where you'll see this: "Check “Enable Facial Blendshapes” when Auto-Rigging to get a full set of facial blendshapes, making lip sync a possibility for characters built in Fuse (Preview)." ...

Here's a link to another thread where I talk about this. I'm just beginning my experiments with Mixamo, so if you know something I don't, please share!

Thanks!

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

@JC

heu...... I've no problem with Fuse character in Iclone. I bought it last year and never had problem. and if you want to read an interesting thread 6 months ago with Jeannette from mixamo:

https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost229271.aspx

By Ibis Fernandez - 11 Years Ago

If the product is good, easy to use, and affordable, who cares whether its compatible with iClone. Most users would go with whats more useful and affordable as opposed to maintaining loyalty based on a brand.
If it comes out before perception and if its cheaper, I for one will be on line top buy it and if its not compatible, id provably be jumping ship to something that is. No harm done.

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

Ibis Fernandez (9/26/2015)

If the product is good, easy to use, and affordable, who cares whether its compatible with iClone.

I do, because it's the only app I need motion capture for. It does me no good otherwise...

By Rampa - 11 Years Ago

The neuron has advertises a feature I don't see on this one, and that is recording directly to an on-board SD card. To me, that is insanely useful. It's not always practical to set up a WIFI network. Capturing to SD allows for capture during hikes, bike rides, etc.

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

rampa (9/26/2015)

Hi Rampa.

Under the "Tech specs" you can see which features we support. You can store data on a USB storage device or SD card.

Best, Maziar.

By Rampa - 11 Years Ago

mzamani (9/26/2015)

rampa (9/26/2015)

Hi Rampa.

Under the "Tech specs" you can see which features we support. You can store data on a USB storage device or SD card.

Best, Maziar.

Thanks for pointing that out! :) Sorry I missed it.

By primaveranz - 11 Years Ago

Hi Maziar,First of all I have to say it is great to see someone really trying to bring Mocap down to consumer - level pricing and the system looks really good. My main concern is, the fact that it is a suit that is available in a set number of sizes only. E.g. if you are a bit too short or long in a particular limb, the sensor won't be sitting in the right place. Can you adjust the positions of the sensors at all? If not, I don't see the benefit of the suit approach as opposed to just having the sensors strapped on where you want them. I spend ages trying to get ordinary clothes to fit so would be wary of ordering a suit on-line. ;)
Second question, say you are an amputee, can you disable the sensors in the relevant limb?

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

primaveranz (9/26/2015)

Hi primaveranz. Thanks for your kind words! :-) You are right when it comes down to people with unique body proportions, but we will do what we can to place the sensors as "generic" as possible, so we can accommodate as many different proportions as possible. It will be possible to rotate the sensors around a limb, but as for positioning them correctly on a limb, we are working hard to solve this problem. Fortunately it would not be so critical that the particular sensor is placed in the absolute center of a limb. Although we will promise you that the textile will be very comfortable to wear and should feel transparent. If you wish to, you can remove an entire segment of sensors, or even just a few.

Best, Maziar.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Hi Maziar

Does your Neuron technology must be removed from the socket after use to prevent magnetic field?
Like the Neuron mocap system?

I found very odd a 1500$ item with weird procedure.....

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/27/2015)

Hi Maziar

Does your Neuron technology must be removed from the socket after use to prevent magnetic field?
Like the Neuron mocap system?

I found very odd a 1500$ item with weird procedure.....

Its not required to remove the sensors after use, but we require that you store the suit in a safe area without significant magnetization risk.

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

primaveranz (9/26/2015)

I'm gonna have to lose a few pounds before I fit into this... so close, the largest is a 41 waist, and I'm a 42... argh... A good reason to get my lazy a** of the couch/computer chair I suppose... lol

By jlittle - 11 Years Ago

wizaerd (9/27/2015)

Ha, I'm also a 42 waist but besides losing weight I would also have to shrink my 6'6" height.
Not easy being tall. :D:hehe::laugh::w00t:

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

jlittle (9/27/2015)

wizaerd (9/27/2015)

Ha, I'm also a 42 waist but besides losing weight I would also have to shrink my 6'6" height.
Not easy being tall. :D:hehe::laugh::w00t:

I have forwarded your comment concerning the size to our textile designer, we will do what we can to make sure that our product can reach out to as many users as possible, without any restrictions. :-))

Best, Maziar.

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

mzamani (9/28/2015)

jlittle (9/27/2015)

wizaerd (9/27/2015)

Ha, I'm also a 42 waist but besides losing weight I would also have to shrink my 6'6" height.
Not easy being tall. :D:hehe::laugh::w00t:

I sure hope so, cuz I ended up backing this... :w00t:

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

wizaerd (9/28/2015)

mzamani (9/28/2015)

jlittle (9/27/2015)

wizaerd (9/27/2015)

Ha, I'm also a 42 waist but besides losing weight I would also have to shrink my 6'6" height.
Not easy being tall. :D:hehe::laugh::w00t:

I sure hope so, cuz I ended up backing this... :w00t:

Wow! Thank you for the support.. We appreciate every single backer we receive. I will make sure that this requirement will be seen by the designer!

Best, Maziar.

By jlittle - 11 Years Ago

mzamani (9/28/2015)

jlittle (9/27/2015)

wizaerd (9/27/2015)

Ha, I'm also a 42 waist but besides losing weight I would also have to shrink my 6'6" height.
Not easy being tall. :D:hehe::laugh::w00t:

Thanks Maziar!
FYI: inseam and sleeve length is 36" which I guess would be considered an XLT size.

Jeff

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

jlittle (9/28/2015)

mzamani (9/28/2015)

jlittle (9/27/2015)

wizaerd (9/27/2015)

Ha, I'm also a 42 waist but besides losing weight I would also have to shrink my 6'6" height.
Not easy being tall. :D:hehe::laugh::w00t:

Thanks Maziar!
FYI: inseam and sleeve length is 36" which I guess would be considered an XLT size.

Jeff

I'll pass that along to the guys/girls! :-)

Cheers, Maziar.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Hi Maziar,

We received yesterday a Neuron update and seriously it's a nightmare and so arrogant.Delay is push to 2 months again and the team travel around the world
and have lot of fun to make showcase of their product.... I'm really impatient to see your next prototype and test a fbx file of your suit to back one of yours if what you said about mass production is correct . I know i will be deliver last because I talking too much about their behavior. It's clear that they lost the control of their manufacturer....

Thank you

By CaseClosed - 11 Years Ago

My fear is PERCEPTION NEURON guys are collecting millions in pre-orders until they can retire. Somebody needs to stop fussing around, put a product on the market and deliver NOW. We'll cancel our orders with perception neuron and buy 2 of the other one.

Remember, if you paid with a credit card, and they didn't deliver, then you can get your money back from the bank.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Remember, if you paid with a credit card, and they didn't deliver, then you can get your money back from the bank.

Yes , I know ;-) but i backed for only 220$ , it's not a drama and I will wait. Today I swich my pipeline and go back to kinect waiting the Iclone update for that.
I'm very upset not really for the delay but the lying and the denial behaviour about the none transparency on what's going on with the backers , not customers. Neuron exists because of us .... But for now this company doesn't show a good behavior for the futur about trouble shooting , maintenance, update , expensive sells, etc....
They made pre-order avalaible but the kits they deliver aren't finished yet, reading backers who receive their kit , there's missing features.... Did you see this amazing video how to remove the Neuron??????

Excuse me Reallusion but I think it's not serious for a kit at 1500$....
Imagine doing that with 32 Neurons for one kit??? I think the minimum is to design a specific tool for that include in the package.

By Ibis Fernandez - 11 Years Ago

That screw driver makes me squirm LOL... Wonder if anyone has told him that he can use a guitar pick... or as we in the business call, a "triangular pry tool" LOL It would be a lot safer and provably easier.

By Ibis Fernandez - 11 Years Ago

wizaerd (9/26/2015)

I do, because it's the only app I need motion capture for. It does me no good otherwise...

That's just you personally limiting yourself. With this type of technology the use of iclone itself becomes irrelevant. You can provably animate directly on a more robust game engine like UDK or Cryengine, or regular old Blender. All of which have better lighting and rendering iC and are FREE. It may even make animating in other conventional programs more accessible.

Me personally I don't like this thing so far. I cringe at the idea of having to wear a mocap "suit" especially one that the previous actor was sweating and getting their smells and body fungus and possible lice and crabs on. Low budget filmmaker might be able to afford 1 or two of these suits, but the idea of buying for for each actor in a scene is impractical. So hygiene issues will ensure LOL

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (9/29/2015)

Its very sad to hear that their communication with the backers is in such a bad state. We will promise you full transparency throughout the entire crowdfunding campaign and afterwards. Our community and users are the most vital part of our project besides the product itself.

By animagic - 11 Years Ago

Even though it seems to be otherwise at times, this is still the iClone forum, so the question if something works with iClone is a valid and relevant one. It is for me as well. I happen to like iClone, and I don't find it limiting for me at all.

I am glad to see a representative of the Mocap solution participating in the discussion, and I may consider backing. My waist size is borderline as well, so this may be an extra incentive to do something about that. In case the suit needs to be shared I will insist on the highest levels of hygiene and submission of the appropriate health certificates.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Hi Maziar,
Just backed your project :-) I'm the number 136. Hope you reach your financement.

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (10/3/2015)

Hi Maziar,
Just backed your project :-) I'm the number 136. Hope you reach your financement.

In that case you should receive a message from me in a second ;-) Thanks for your support!

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (10/3/2015)

Hi Maziar,
Just backed your project :-) I'm the number 136. Hope you reach your financement.

welcome to the club? :D

By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (10/3/2015)

Hi Maziar,
Just backed your project :-) I'm the number 136. Hope you reach your financement.

welcome to the club! :D

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

SALTO project reach their pledge!!!!! Congratulations Maziar!!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2132274632/salto-captures-your-every-move-vr-ar-film-vfx-gami

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

Hurray! Thanks a lot, we have 10 days of hard work to spread the word so we reach even further out! :-))))

mtakerkart (10/11/2015)

SALTO project reach their pledge!!!!! Congratulations Maziar!!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2132274632/salto-captures-your-every-move-vr-ar-film-vfx-gami

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Hi Maziar! Congratulations again ! You're campaign is over and successful pledged !!!
I suggest you to contact reallusion to send you're SDK. You're suit is very simple to setup and even without a plugin , it'll be
very easy to import fbx file to Iclone. Loooot of Iclone users would like to have this kind of device.
Reallusion is the only known company wich develops an integration for Neuron (but sadly no known iclone user backer receive their kit 8 months delayed)
I'm very confident wich your project because you're 18 persons team you have received governmental subsidy and you used your
technology on real project.
Good luck!!

By nikofilm - 11 Years Ago

This is great.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

Cool!! I think this is the first time we have a tutorial for an Iclone plugin ready before having the device! ;-)
I really look forward to have my kickstarter kit. I hope that Iclone is be able to run a 11 neurons kit for a basic body rig....

By animagic - 11 Years Ago

This is promising! I hope RL will be able to negotiate a good price and perhaps help with production...

By mzamani - 11 Years Ago

mtakerkart (10/22/2015)

Thank you so much, and thank you once again with backing us! :-)
When we have the software ready i will get in touch with Reallusion!

Best, Maziar.

By Sifr - 11 Years Ago

This is great news RL. I'm expected to receive my 32-Neuron Suit in the coming week, if Perception holds to their word from support.::ermm::unsure:

I'll be iC6 ready out of the box.:w00t::w00t::w00t:

By Kelleytoons - 11 Years Ago

mzamani (10/23/2015)

mtakerkart (10/22/2015)

Thank you so much, and thank you once again with backing us! :-)
When we have the software ready i will get in touch with Reallusion!

Best, Maziar.

Sorry I came to this late but I would have backed you based on your participation here.

As others have noted, iClone and Real Illusion is a real good fit for your product. There is a TON of interest here for Mocap, and yours is affordable and actually makes more sense to me than putting on a number of sensors on the body like the Perception Neuron. I also see this as a "personal" solution for Mocap -- larger studios will spend more money, but an individual like most of the folks who use iClone will only need one easy to use device (a reason I wouldn't worry about the odd comment about not wanting to wear such a suit in favor of separate devices).

Because iClone IS mostly a hobbyist product, having native support of your suit is really important, because you will sell a lot more if folks can just "plug and play". Also, while not concerning me personally (my waist is 36" :>) I will admit that we Americans are known for larger sizes, and so it would be good to have an option that at least takes into account the much larger waistlines of many American men.

Best of luck to you -- I'll buy your product the first day it's available if it will work in iClone right away (and I'd get the optional gloves, because finger support is VERY important).

By CaseClosed - 11 Years Ago

Kelleytoons (10/29/2015)actually makes more sense to me than putting on a number of sensors on the body like the Perception Neuron... an individual like most of the folks who use iClone will only need one easy to use device (a reason I wouldn't worry about the odd comment about not wanting to wear such a suit in favor of separate devices).

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this point. Being able to put the sensors where you want them is much more powerful than trying to force-fit a suit. I believe its better for hygiene purposes, too, if you want to have multiple people performing the mocap.

By Kelleytoons - 11 Years Ago

Nah, hygiene is a non-factor for 95 percent of iClone users (who are nearly all one man animation "shops")

The having to remove those 32 thingies all the time from their holders is the deal killer for the PN rig for most folks (unless that posted video and info is incorrect).

In any case, no one is forced to buy either and the marketplace will determine if there is a winner - my money in every sense of the word is on this, as I think PN is way overpriced considering how these cheap sensors are now available. I'll bet you a dollar that in six months there will be similar units available for around $500.

By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago

@kelleytoon
Today a good 9 axis sensor is 15-20$ each if you buy by 100. So just the 32 sensors cost is 480 $....

By Kelleytoons - 11 Years Ago

Oh I'm SURE they can be made cheaper than that -- you're not talking wholesale, not when you are talking in quantities of 100.

Again, bet you a dollar we see something like this MUCH cheaper. Soon.

By peppie - 11 Years Ago

I don't know how yet,but someone could make a video showing how they would like to see the hardware worn. I was thinking it could roll out like a narrow carpet or fixed to overalls with draw strings or straps

By peppie - 11 Years Ago

double

By animagic - 11 Years Ago

Kelleytoons (10/29/2015)

Oh I'm SURE they can be made cheaper than that -- you're not talking wholesale, not when you are talking in quantities of 100.

Again, bet you a dollar we see something like this MUCH cheaper. Soon.

You may actually win that bet. Searching for 9-axis sensors brought me to sportswear with built-in motion sensors that's being developed. Suits would sell for a few hundred dollars. If things like that take off the price of sensors will go down due to sheer volume.

The sports suits are washable. You just take the sensors out and put them back in later, which would still be easier than strapping them on.

Also, I think if these things are marketed as having a broader use than just for animation, there would be more demand. $1500 may be cheap for MOCAP but is expensive for many other applications.

By Kelleytoons - 11 Years Ago

Having other uses than mocap would certainly drive prices down, as well as create a lot of other alternatives.

I've just seen this time and time again with technology, though -- even 3D printing (which itself is a rather niche market, at least right now) has dropped dramatically in the last few years. I suspect the profit margin on the PN suit is VERY high (it probably cost them less than $100 to make, maybe *much* less) and while that's good given the complicated nature of such a system and the software needed to support it, once it has been developed competitors will come along. It's very telling that before PN has even been released a competitor came along and is making something at half the cost.

I do think the sweet spot for this is around $500 -- at that point the profit margin will be about what it is for anything and while it won't be as attractive to a startup it certainly may be something a larger manufacturer would be interested in. So you watch: my gut tells me within a year one of the larger companies will acquire one (or both!) of these and then offer something in that price range (it would be a PERFECT fit for RL but something tells me they aren't nearly big enough nor do they want to get into the hardware business -- wouldn't at all surprise me, though, if Adode decides they might want to offer something other than software).

By animagic - 11 Years Ago

BTW, for those that have the Perception Neuron assembly, there is now a beta test going on of the iClone plugin.

I know this because I suddenly saw a new category on the forum. Here is the link: https://forum.reallusion.com/iClone/Neuron-Mocap-PlugIn-Beta.

By Kelleytoons - 11 Years Ago

Yeah, and that whole category (and info posted by RL) raises a question in my mind.

If that's the beta for the RL PN plug-in, then what is the final cost for that plugin? IOW, I assume RL is going to charge folks for being able to use the PN with iClone, and people need to factor in that cost as well.

Would *love* to see some official word from RL on this. The PN is expensive enough as is, so I would hope that any effort by RL to support it isn't too much more money.

By Ibis Fernandez - 11 Years Ago

animagic (10/30/2015)

Kelleytoons (10/29/2015)

Oh I'm SURE they can be made cheaper than that -- you're not talking wholesale, not when you are talking in quantities of 100.

Again, bet you a dollar we see something like this MUCH cheaper. Soon.

I've already made one for less than $100. The sensors only cost about $3 from Amazon.com pair then with $2 arduino pro mini boards and The entire node costa abot $5 each. I couldnt figure out hiw to attach all The imu to a single arduino board so i just gave each imu its own pro mini arduino.

Not The most elegante approach bit it collects data. It was a fun learning project.The hard part is coming up with the software that pieces together all the info. Right now all i can do is piece together The data after it's been recorded. I have no idea how to capture it in real time. I don't think thats a hardware issue though

By Kelleytoons - 11 Years Ago

Yeah, and if you can do that for less than $100 a major maker could do it for less than half of that. Even including all the supporting software (and other hardware) the total cost to them shouldn't be more than $100, and a profit margin of about 80% sounds good for most such things.

The more I hear about this the more I'm convinced that by this time next year (before the holiday season) we'll see all KINDS of mocap suits and hardware, all going for about the $500 mark. Early adopters of the PN rig should be wary.

By animagic - 11 Years Ago

Judging by other RL plugins over the years, the plugin would maybe cost about $99. What would make this really interesting for most as an affordable package of PN and plugin.

BTW, I know this is really about PN competitors, but I didn't want to start another thread...:unsure:

Edited for a typo.

By CaseClosed - 11 Years Ago

At this point, it's quite upsetting that PN has not delivered yet. Their price was right 6 months ago as buyers would get a year jump on competitors. That competitive edge is all but gone. I suspect foul play.