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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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I've been learning Iclone since I bought it this january. The Iclone youtube channel is very helpful for newbies like me. One of the best video docs I've seen. I can say without a doubt Iclone will revolutionize how I work. Its going to be fun doing CG again with my discovery of Iclone software.
Here's some production notes --
Importing own asset and motions.
Lightwave 3d to Iclone pipeline - Tested and confirmed and production ready
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Fourth week learning Iclone. Love the usability of this app! :D
Things learned.
1. Setting up viseme and face setup.
2. Setting up rigid objects as props and turning them into accessory item type with proper pos,rot,scale.
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By planetstardragon - 11 Years Ago
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I love the character, thanks for sharing your experience!! Looks like we are in for an adventure! :w00t:
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks! I have to say that other 3d companies can learn a lot about usability from RL. Its such a well thought out software.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Production log 3
Had time this afternoon to study how hair is implemented in Iclone.
Here's my findings to create own hair or cloth items.
This was done fast so its better to spend more time creating proper weightmap especially if this stuff is planned to be sold in the marketplace.
I used Lightwave to create the map but any other app is similar if they support vertexmaps to image maps conversion.
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By mark - 11 Years Ago
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This is really great stuff Hattori! Had Lightwave since the very beginning (on an Amiga) I stopped with version 9. I pretty much gave up using it except for basic modelling, never had great skills with it to begin with. Thanks to you looks like I really need to brush-up on my knowledge of it.;)
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Mark! Wow an amiga! I personally haven't seen those but my collegues used them before. I started lw at version 8 on pc coming from 3dmax 5 then bouncing app to app whichever the studio needed. Pain in the @$$ honestly its hard to keep motivated with constant switching. Now with autodesk trying to milk the monopoly and super high subscription scheme people are looking at modo and lightwave as alternatives. So I'm back again with lw and Iclone works great with it so far. Iclone is giving me good motivation and love using it :D
Edit. Noticed SmallWStudio is your youtube channel. Subscribed to you earlier this month and watched your tuts along with warlord and cricky, etc. Thanks for the tips really they're great for Iclone newbies like me.
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By vidi - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks! I have to say that other 3d companies can learn a lot about usability from RL. Its such a well thought out software.
Absolutely :)
That's what I think every time . iClone is more than as a cheep Animation tool, it is also a pro developer Tool for less money.
I have so much 3D Programms, but I could never make a Character setup so easy like with iClone.
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By mark - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks! Glad those old tutes helped!!!
And.....I'm hoping to see more Lightwave tutes from you and others you might recommend so I can get back to using LW to rig and convert to iClone ...hint, hint!!!:P:P:P:P:P:P
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By stuckon3d - 11 Years Ago
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mark (1/30/2015)
This is really great stuff Hattori! Had Lightwave since the very beginning (on an Amiga) I stopped with version 9. I pretty much gave up using it except for basic modelling, never had great skills with it to begin with. Thanks to you looks like I really need to brush-up on my knowledge of it.;)
Me too, i started doing 3d with an Amiga 2000, first with "turbosilver" and then my professional career kicked off with Lightwave, version 1 . When the only way to get it was with a VideoToaster. And the full installation was like 14 floppy disks. Man I'm getting old. :P
PS: great job Hattori
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By prabhatM - 11 Years Ago
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stuckon3d (1/31/2015)
Lightwave, version 1 . When the only way to get it was with a VideoToaster. And the full installation was like 14 floppy disks. Man I'm getting old. :P
I still remember the launch of video toaster. The flying logos and brilliant colours surely dazzled us. Yes, it's been long time.
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By prabhatM - 11 Years Ago
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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@mark will try to share more. I'm waiting for the 3dx for Iclone 6 so I can test out exporting the animation and rendering with lightwave beautiful renderer. 999 render nodes free :D
@stuckon - thanks for the tutorials, too, I also subscribed to your channel like other iclone veterans as mentioned. The VideoToaster! Heard it lots of times never saw one and can't help thinking why they called it a toaster. :D
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By prabhatM - 11 Years Ago
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hattori kun (1/31/2015)
The VideoToaster! Heard it lots of times never saw one and can't help thinking why they called it a toaster. :D
The colors were brilliant & crisp, the animations and effects very inspiring....like a toast, ready for the consumption. It truly had its moments those days.
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By mark - 11 Years Ago
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Actually my first paying animation job was on an Amiga 1000. The software was Videoscape 3D which was a bit of a precursor to Lightwave 3d. I built this animation file for the new Airport here in Nashville and recorded it to 1" tape one frame at a time manually!!!!!:w00t: Oooo:P
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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...in the second video LOL the robot Heidi is way sexier!
I recently gave LW another test drive. Beautiful IPR, underestimated C4D grade functions, hellish antique UI, and like IC-3DX, mega split tool issue of Modeller-Layout.
Pros who're attracted to IClone are not studio system job seeker but indie artist types fed up with big biz licensing nonsense and last gen UI mindset.
My dream tool is C4D UI + native Octane + ZBrush artistry + huge robust indie artist community + iClone cuteness. I know I know, I said "dream". :) If and when iClone integrate fully with 3DX, and get into major 3D applinking with all major sculpter modelers, it may become a threat to LightWave, and become the new baby-C4D. You never know...
Anyway, good job on those videos hattori, keep going...
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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@mark - must have been hellish working in that era. :P Now we have things like Iclone which I can't believe I only knew about last december.
@Bellatrix - Thanks! Yeah lightwave has its drawbacks. But the price is the lowest among pro appz and the renderer is one of the easiest to use imo. Modo indie is on the side if ever I need it for some heavy lifting in modelling. C4d is way too much for my personal budget. I could buy 20 Iclone licenses with 1 C4d license :D
But working with Iclone now its the same as working with lightwave. Model in one app, animate in another. Good thing I'm used to that workflow, too.
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 11 Years Ago
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Bellatrix (2/2/2015)
../.. Pros who're attracted to IClone are not studio system job seeker but indie artist types fed up with big biz licensing nonsense and last gen UI mindset../..
Well, as a 'pro' acting - with my partner - as a studio, allow me to present a different reason why we are attracted to iClone:
We are not attracted to iClone as a replacement tool for high-end 3d tools because there is simply no comparison. We dont' entertain the dream to create animation films - in the traditional sense meaning 'cartoon' movies inheriting from the 2D animation movies spirit - nor VFX with iClone. iClone is simply not enough and don't have the right tools for this.
But we think iClone may be the ideal tool to produce an alternate kind of productions, mocap based (even if adding some manual animations is part of the process), less cartoony, with fast productions phases including rendering.
A kind of productions that has no real diffusion window on TV (at least here in France) because no one try to do it (because as no TV are interested, no subventions/financial contribution is possible so.. no production started). A kind of production not children oriented.
Something more adult, more realistic - albeit not on a 3d VFX level, that's not the point - something more close to current TV series but done in 3D. I have no better word than using "machinima" productions for this. Perhaps one new word would be to be invented but so far "machinima" is the closest that comes to mind. To me, this kind of productions is not here to "replace" traditional 3d animation movies/tv series, but to be an alternative, a new kind of main stream productions.
But for this to work, TV must be interested. And for TV to be interested, there must be an audience, and the audience will come from "high-end" "machinima" productions, perhaps some who will make enough buzz on the internet, some "proof of concept" so TV may start to realize: Oh ? There is an actual audience for this kind of productions ? Perhaps we should start to buy some ?
This would then trigger the all production chain: TV interest -> Subvention/Financial support possible -> Production started.
This is how we - at least me and my partner at radfac productions - see the all thing and this is what we are working on and what we are trying to do.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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So I refunded my 3dx pro to get this iClone Animation Pipeline at the bottom which includes IC5, 3dx pipeline, mocap plugin and a whole bunch of free stuff. :D
http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/3DXchange.html
Kudos to RL the refund took less than 2 days. :D Got the money back and bought that bundle.
All I need now is 3dx pipeline for my IC6 and its all good.
Production log 4. Iclone to Lw Octane renderer :D
it works great! Love it. I can use more renderers now. Octane, kray, native lw renderer. :D
Only thing I didn't like was the fbx from Iclone renames UVmaps into some non-sensible names like channel1, channel2, etc. Had to reassign some materials. Took a few minutes but no showstopper.
Production log 4.
Video also shows how fast octane renderer is and some nodes that allow tonemapping, post processing within octane.
I'm using a lowend 750 gt ti. Serious octane user are using multiple 980 gtx and titans. I can't imagine how fast octane is with multiple gpus.
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By prabhatM - 11 Years Ago
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grabiller (2/3/2015)
Something more adult, more realistic - albeit not on a 3d VFX level, that's not the point - something more close to current TV series but done in 3D. I have no better word than using "machinima" productions for this. Perhaps one new word would be to be invented but so far "machinima" is the closest that comes to mind. To me, this kind of productions is not here to "replace" traditional 3d animation movies/tv series, but to be an alternative, a new kind of main stream productions.
But for this to work, TV must be interested. And for TV to be interested, there must be an audience, and the audience will come from "high-end" "machinima" productions, perhaps some who will make enough buzz on the internet, some "proof of concept" so TV may start to realize: Oh ? There is an actual audience for this kind of productions ? Perhaps we should start to buy some ?
This would then trigger the all production chain: TV interest -> Subvention/Financial support possible -> Production started.
Ha...ha...ha...Please allow me to laugh aloud.
There is atleast someone out there thinking like me and trying to alter the present TV Content equation !
Yes, you almost sound like my soul brother ![ I have been watching too many chinese martial art movies and TV series recently :P:D:P]
Trust me it's doable, tough though. Just have faith.
The audience is there somewhere. We need to tap them with quality content. But it needs strategic investment. You need to create large content library then attack the domain. If you do just one series then others will imitate quickly and there will be too many me-too products.
You need to think like any global internet project. SCALE is the key.
What you need is ICLONE with better internal renderer, good facial motion capture tool and realtime speech / lip sync engine for your project.
Please keep sharing your progress.
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 11 Years Ago
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@prabhatM
I don't want to further high jack hattori kun thread here, but I wouldn't mind continuing this discussion in a specific thread if you are interested.
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By prabhatM - 11 Years Ago
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I am sorry. I didn't realise that. Hattori is using this thread with a focus and purpose. We must not dilute the effort.
Though I would like to pursue the topic in any other thread.
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 11 Years Ago
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Here it is:
https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic223968-385-1.aspx
@hattori kun: sorry for the high jack.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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No problem guys :D
Good luck with your endeavors btw
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Test for vidi.
Production log 5 - Iclone to Modo Indie
Its working but the viewport in Modo is extremely sloooooowwwww because of deformation calculation and mocap keys is heavy. The textures didn't get in so I have to reassign all of them :D The morph info is there, too.
All in all I would rather use modo for what its good at which is asset creation particularly sculpting and painting.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Production log 6
I noticed that when its in cpu mode there are other render modes, which is good since some of them are cheat engines to make it faster.
But to compare closely with octane and other unbiased renderers lets use pathtracer mode.
500 samples is not enough I still see a lot of noise compared to octane.
But its still a good benchmark for comparison. I ran it multiple times making sure it started from stop to render.
Cpu mode 3770k cpu - 3:38s ish
pretty good render time considering this is pathracing mode.
Gpu mode 750 gt ti - 3:03s ish
cuda or opencl tested its negligible time difference. Why? Because the gpu only assists the cpu. Most of the work is still cpu. If this was a pure gpu renderer I suspect it wil be half the render time.
Intel hd 4000 gpu in opencl - not supported
Too bad it doesn't seem like you can use multiple gpu for indigo rt yet.
My opinion. The render time probably is 5 times slower than octane to get clean image but you can survive with good cpu. Getting a highend gpu like titans,etc not so much help in render time with this renderer, 750gt ti 3mins to 980 gtx 2:45mins.
But Indigo RT is worth it for people who want more quality render for a cheap price of an unbiased renderer. There's no renderer in its class that comes close in price. The implementation is pretty good except for the frame by frame export.
File converted to Iclone format by animagic.:D
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Some tests. Didn't touch the materials or lighting, only tonemapping and post work.
I wanted to see how well the autoconvert material worked.
Its 80% there which is really good work by RL. There really is a need to adjust materials imo but for lazy people 80% is good enough imo.
Even if I have 3dxpipeline now it would be too much work to export these scenes by fbx.
Pretty slow to process and gfx card was using 1500mb while ram is around 1000mb
I looked at the camera settings the conversion from Iclone was wrong so just manually adjust it. So the camera can match we just need the proper settings from RL like the IClone sensor width, fov.
The bump mapping is pretty weak in indigo and color values seems incorrect. That needs tweaking.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Another test. This is the problem again with pathracers same as maxwell,etc even with bidirect and mlt. Too long render times for enclosed interior scene. :D Gpu contribution is very minimal for indigo. 100% used but contribution to actual render power is less than 20%. Very behind octane. Biased renderers like vray and kray would eat this scene for breakfast in 3 minutes.
Iclone
But for exterior shots and grass with high detail scenes nothing beats a pathtracer though ;)
For interiors..nay.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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1 hour render at 720p. Still a lot of noise as expected with unbiased renderers.
Speedtree library plus cheap models in marketplace could potentially attract pro archiviz users.
Not bad for a render plugin at this price. :D
The spotlight in Iclone becomes an object in Indigo. :D
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By myless76 - 11 Years Ago
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Wow the last one is looking pretty lifelike!
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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myless76 (2/11/2015)
Wow the last one is looking pretty lifelike!
A little more time to cook the grain could be lesser but not completely noise free. Interiors are just difficult to render for unbiased renderers.
Some more tests with different modes. bidi with mlt has less noise.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Last test. Indigo is very predictable and easy to understand compared to other renderers of its type. Easier than octane definitely. Going to pick this up for sure.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Production log 7
A quick test for Indigo and speedtree.
Bugs I encountered for two days here.
https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic225125-388-1.aspx
I think Iclone+indigo = lovehate relationship :D
Love that I can get renders faster than any unbiased renderers I've had(octane, maxwell, fry).
Hate the export process from Iclone that takes long and eats gigs of hdd space.:D
Apologies for the preset character, she wasn't supposed to be there. Just testing indigo with heavy speedtree stuff.:w00t:
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By animagic - 11 Years Ago
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I think the character adds to it, although one keeps looking at her instead of the trees...:blush:
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