|
By JasonJ68 - 15 Years Ago
|
Hello Exciting Friends!
I recommend every iCloner go out and rent, buy, or steal "The Lord of the Rings" Special Deluxe Extended Version. I'm sure everyone has seen the movies a million times but the Special Features included on the DVDs are freaking amazing for artists to watch. Each movie is now FOUR dvds. There are different audio commentaries -- it's just amazing and inspiring.
There is a long section about animating Gollum. Now, these movies are almost 10 years old, so it seems that most of the techniques they discuss on the DVD are achievable with iClone. Basically they rotoscoped most of Gollum's body motion and face motion -- they did not use much motion capture at all.
I notice in most iClone videos, including my own, there is no facial animation except for the eyes blinking and the mouth moving.
Anyhow, thusly inspired, I set about to animate a character and to animate the face. I was very happy with the results-- adding just the slightest bit of animation to the face
Animating the face is like animating the hands --- the hands don't need to do anything specific, they just have to look like they are alive. So adding bits of facial muscle motion helped the character look alive without giving the face any specific direction.
Does anyone actually animate faces with iClone? I have never seen a single example-
DISCLOSURE: One of my friends is an professional animator/artist who WON AN OSCAR a couple of years ago for his animated film. He teaches facial animation for Maya. That's why I care. That's why I'm interested in seeing iClone "mature" in the way that other animation packages have matured.
|
|
By peteradam6 - 15 Years Ago
|
|
For close-up shots, isn't that what Reallusion's companion software CrazyTalk is for?
|
|
By mark - 15 Years Ago
|
|
Well....I guess I'm clueless , don't answer that, but I thought the "Facial Puppet" under the Animation/Facial Animation Tab was used for facial animation. I tried it a bit in my new Pinhead movie and was pretty happy..still need more practice with it for sure. ;)
|
|
By namunger - 15 Years Ago
|
The facial animation features were one of the main factors I looked at when I started looking into iClone. Usually, I record dialog, then use that to auto-generate the mouth motion. Then I use keyframes to clean it up if needed. Then, I go back through about 5-10 more passes using the facial puppeteering features to get more realistic motions. I think the results are pretty good!
It's true that most of the videos you see here on the forum are just using stock motions dancing around, but those are also just there to show off the sets or clothing, not really the animations. Don't take that to mean that people aren't using the tools for "real" animation work, too!
|
|
By JasonJ68 - 15 Years Ago
|
I *did* use CrazyTalk 6 to "animate" the mouth. It was quick and easy to get good results...
It's animating the rest of the face that makes the difference.
|
|
By namunger - 15 Years Ago
|
Here's a quick clip of one of mine...
I used the "solo feature" on the puppeteering menu, and made a pass for each control box - blink, eyes, tilt, etc. I especially like how the brows turned out. Also, make sure to check the "edit property" options to change the weighting of each feature. Using this, you can give each character a facial characteristic that becomes a part of their personality. That may be a lot of "repetitive tweaking," but by doing it by hand each time, you can ensure that each facial animation matches the personality of the character, and the situation of the scene.
Now if I could just make his arm motions look as good as his face!
|
|
By animagic - 15 Years Ago
|
|
I have been using CrazyTalk 5 for facial animation together with iClone 3 (which doesn't have the puppeteering feature that iClone 4 has). The speech is converted to mouth positions, after that you can do additional passes. The conversion is not flawless and CrazyTalk lets you tweak the visemes, which you can't do with iClone.
|
|
By mellormedia - 15 Years Ago
|
|
jasonjbrown (6/10/2011)
Hello Exciting Friends!
I notice in most iClone videos, including my own, there is no facial animation except for the eyes blinking and the mouth moving.
Does anyone actually animate faces with iClone? I have never seen a single example-
Hi, I generally put facial animation in my iClone works, including this last piece released:- https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost82768.aspx enjoy, mAD mELLOR mAN
|
|
By Paumanok West - 15 Years Ago
|
|
sw00000p (6/11/2011)
Facial Puppeteering is Waste-Of-Time!
* TOTALLY USELESS... in the Professional Industry!
If One could animate the iClone face bones... You could develop the necessary skills to get that job!
OK swoop, I'll bite. I thought the pros were pragmatic till the cows come home. They like to complain about "cheating" by rotoscoping video reference, but they all do it. They complain about "cheating" by mocap, but as soon as it became practical, they all started doing it, too. I bet they complain about taking shortcuts to avoid animation, but they all do it.
My real question, I guess, is: if the viewer can't tell the difference between puppeteering and bone animation, does anybody care? CAN anybody tell the difference?
|
|
By JasonJ68 - 15 Years Ago
|
I guess this conversation has derailed completely and here's my two cents.
I doubt anybody using iClone is LOOKING TO BE HIRED by anyone. Actually, the idea of working in an animation house doing someone else's work sounds PRETTY DEPRESSING.
|
|
By sjonesdc - 15 Years Ago
|
|
sw00000p (6/11/2011)
Look around at all of the (Developers selling content).
You can bet the Farm that they'd LOVE to step up to the next level...
AND MAKE SOME REAL MONE FOR THEIR HARD WORKY!
Do ya still think, "NOBODY?"
Do ya still think, "they would be Depressed, if they got paid (WAY MORE MONEY)"
_______________________________________
Without proper iClone Animation Tools:
Your fooling yourself thinking about, "Lord of the Rings" or anything else!
That's like saying, "I want to run a marathon, but I DON'T HAVE ANY LEGS!":P
__________________________________________
When the ANIMATOR walks into the room... All of the PRETTY PICTURE Makers...
STAND BACK and GIVE 'EM SOME ROOM!
TIME TO MAKE MONEY!:D
I may be wrong, but I would hazard a guess that many who are using iClone and the content developer are making money at full time jobs and using iClone is a hobby. Do not denegrate their efforts. And please take care in what you use to make a point. Your statement "I want to run a marathon, but I DON'T HAVE ANY LEGS!" I would consider a slap in the face if those who are paraplegic and quadriplegic who "CAN RUN a marathon".
|
|
By Paumanok West - 15 Years Ago
|
|
sjonesdc (6/11/2011)
And please take care in what you use to make a point.
sjones, I used to lock horns with swoop pretty hard, but I always came out the loser. It was like Yosemite Sam trying to get his clutches on Bugs Bunny (or, to continue the metaphor, that bull from the Spanish bull ring who ran afoul of De Wabbitt).
I have found that it's better to just relax and enjoy the ride. With his flamboyant style, how can anyone really take offense? Besides, he's pretty smart and every once in a while--even if it's a long while--something he says makes lots of sense.
:):D:P
|
|
By bluemidget666 - 15 Years Ago
|
|
Can I just say with some knowledge that the one thing guaranteed to offend people with dissabilities is people getting offended on their behalf ...........:)
|
|
By sjonesdc - 15 Years Ago
|
PW,
Thanks for the advice. Maybe I'll take it.
Blue,
I too can speak with some knowledge here.
swOOOOp,
Yes, it would be nice to get a larger percentage from products in the content store but I don't think that many developers are doing it just for the money.
As to your Point:
Is it not true that any tool has it limitations and those who use them would want that tool to do more.
And do "Our engineers, Artists, Directors and Cartoonists" use their skills to create exceptional content with the tools available in iClone in conjunction with other available tools.
Your end result is true, we all learn more from them.
In end I think we both want the same thing and sw00000p I will not Double-BackHand-Slap and poke you in the eye.:D
Peace out.
|
|
By bluemidget666 - 15 Years Ago
|
|
Hi sjonesdc I may of seemed a bit up my own bottom with my last post my point is lets not get offended at everything but keep it for what really need to be offended by :)
|
|
By sjonesdc - 15 Years Ago
|
|
bluemidget666 (6/11/2011)
Hi sjonesdc I may of seemed a bit up my own bottom with my last post my point is lets not get offended at everything but keep it for what really need to be offended by :)
Blue,
Let's do that and get back on topic:)
|
|
By martok2112 - 15 Years Ago
|
The thing I love about iClone is its limitations, sometimes.
I like the challenge of thinking outside the box to try and pull certain animations or scenes off.
Granted, the big witch with a B sting of a lot of this is that you sometimes have to buy additional software (3DExchange for example) to import certain props or objects that you just can't make in iClone. (Thank God, Blender is FREE.....LOL!)
There are a ton of talented content and animation producers here...and I always manage to learn a little something from them when I see their great works.
No, I doubt iClone will allow us to make the next "Lord of the Rings" styled epic, but it sure is a nice stepping stone. It's a great entry level machinima animation tool that can whet one's appetitie for more advanced animation apps and techniques in the future.
I enjoy using the facial puppeteering in iClone. I think, for the most part, I get pretty decent results out of it for my purposes. :)
|
|
By martok2112 - 15 Years Ago
|
|
sw00000p (6/12/2011)
martok2112,
You like iClone's limitations! OK I Don't! and that's OK too!
iClone is a GREAT Program... And "SHE Could Make the Next LORD of the RINGS"
IF...........................................
SHE COULD TOO!
sw00000p
LOL! Only for the challenge of seeing "how can I pull this off?" :)
|
|
By animagic - 15 Years Ago
|
|
I use iClone because I want to make my own films, not to get a job as an animator working on some one else's projects... It doesn't pay enough to do those all-nighters. But you may have the satisfaction of seeing your name among hundreds in the credits of a Pixar movie...:P
|
|
By Paumanok West - 15 Years Ago
|
|
animagic (6/14/2011)
I use iClone because I want to make my own films, not to get a job as an animator working on some one else's projects... It doesn't pay enough to do those all-nighters. But you may have the satisfaction of seeing your name among hundreds in the credits of a Pixar movie...:P
Just to set the record straight: major Hollywood studios and hobbyists are by no means the only two alternatives for doing animation.
|
|
By aknzrdude - 15 Years Ago
|
this thread is too much fun reading i decide to jump in - here i disagree with Martok - iClone will definitely let me make Lord of the Rings - but perhaps as in my Hobbit parody - it might not be the version you would like but it would be a version i (and maybe 10 or 20 people) would love :)
No, I doubt iClone will allow us to make the next "Lord of the Rings" styled epic, but it sure is a nice stepping stone.
|
|
By BiggsTrek - 15 Years Ago
|
|
I use Facial Puppeteering extensively. Sometimes (perhaps most times) the subtleties it adds are lost, but I do it anyway. I actually kinda hope they boost what you can do in this department in the next version of iClone. It's a great feature.
|
|
By martok2112 - 15 Years Ago
|
aknzrdude (6/14/2011)
this thread is too much fun reading i decide to jump in - here i disagree with Martok - iClone will definitely let me make Lord of the Rings - but perhaps as in my Hobbit parody - it might not be the version you would like but it would be a version i (and maybe 10 or 20 people) would love :) No, I doubt iClone will allow us to make the next "Lord of the Rings" styled epic, but it sure is a nice stepping stone.
I didn't quite mean it the way it sounded, aknzrdude. :)
I simply meant that it wouldn't let you make the epic "big screen" type LotR...but, to rephrase my previous statement, yes, you could probably do a very fun looking and well done (for the app's capabilities) LotR styled tale.
Just look at stuckon3d's imagery for an idea. :)
|
|
By animagic - 15 Years Ago
|
|
Paumanok West (6/14/2011)
Just to set the record straight: major Hollywood studios and hobbyists are by no means the only two alternatives for doing animation.I'm quite aware of that, and I didn't mean to imply that I considered it a hobby for myself... There are, and have been for a long time, independent animated film makers. But, frankly, I have given up to educate on this forum in this area... I admire your efforts!
|
|
By Darren01 - 15 Years Ago
|
|
animagic (6/14/2011)
I use iClone because I want to make my own films, not to get a job as an animator working on some one else's projects... It doesn't pay enough to do those all-nighters. But you may have the satisfaction of seeing your name among hundreds in the credits of a Pixar movie...:P
I'm the same.
I use iClone purely to bring my ideas to life and hopefully one day be able to entertain a few people along the way with my creations. I have no ambitions to be a professional animator, it will always just be a hobby for me.
And if RL can add some features that take some of the hard work out of animating and making the motions more lifelike, then I'm all for it :)
as for facial animation, yeah I've been playing around with it a fair bit lately. I've also noticed a lot of iClone productions seem to have botoxed actors. A bit of facial animation makes a big difference to making things more life-like
|