The Genesis 9 import cannot speak in iClone

The Genesis 9 import cannot speak in iClone

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https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic547944.aspx

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By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

Sure, I can make it walk. And the lipsync options work too. Problem is, the jaw doesn't move.

Thanks in advance for showing me I'm wrong.

By Kelleytoons - 2 Years Ago

I have to take my wife to the hospital for a procedure but later this afternoon I'm going to explore this in detail and make a (hopefully short) video showing the basic issue along with how it DOES work with the Daz cat (with a very similar setup other than the body rig).

Perhaps then some folks with more knowledge can inform us where we are going wrong (but I'll show the entire process I'm using).

By 4u2ges - 2 Years Ago

The confusion comes from the fact that G9 has a separate mouth. So 2 sets of DAZ visemes are relevant body and mouth (for jaw).
That is if you intend to use it to built visemes, which I used very little as they do not correspond much.

I downloaded (I think it's a right one) it to test from gfx hub, applied the profile I made yesterday (the link for profile download is in the other thread) and it talks just fine.
The only thing, I maxed viseme strength as the original profile was made on G9 female. As I said before no other blend shapes there just visemes.

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

What gorgeous results.
The separate mouth thing wouldn't surprise me.
I think I could write facs_CTRL_v and get only the Visemes. I didn't try it because, I used facs EXPORT and got a bunch of extras. Not elegant but enough to test the process. I verified them with the Morph Animator. All the morphs are in facs, Viseme and Jaw.

Getting the morphs in there seems to not be the hard part. Yes, I am happy for now with store-bought visemes. I don't have your skill and achievements. I'm acquainted with your work with the iClone dog and cat. I must walk before I learn to run. Evidently you have a particular process, though, that is not exactly what I've been doing. I won't try to guess it, but I'm ready to give it a try. I am clueless as to how to begin.

By 4u2ges - 2 Years Ago

I do not use any special routine, other than built-in features of CC4 for making/customizing face morphs/visemes.
Once you understand the concept and get a hang of it, making those would become a snap.
This is a base RL tutorial for customizing with sliders, bones and mesh edit: Link

I have already shown the import of Body/Mouth visemes for G9 into Face Editor here: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost547927.aspx
Just added a quick morphs translation and tweak in that video.

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

4u2ges (2/24/2024)

I'm going to watch this very carefully. Thank you.

By Kelleytoons - 2 Years Ago

I did finally get Lahr the lion to work - as it turns out, the "secret" is just rotating the jaw downwards even after you assign the visemes.

Of course, this is all done in XChange (something I'm really familiar with). I'll see if I can get it to work by bringing it in cold via CC4 (but I honestly don't see the same options to move the jaw bone down when setting the visemes as I do in XChange).

(Note: this is without the eyes or expressions like smile mapped yet. I'll do that - in XChange - next).

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

Nice. I'll give that a try. If you did facial expression (and visemes) in 3DX, you had to turn it into a non-standard first. I couldn't get 3dx to accept the G9 skeleton.

By AutoDidact - 2 Years Ago

The really weird thing I have discovered about G9 is that (unlike G3-G8), G9 exports Daz animated FBX files
,with facial animation that are actually usable in other 3DCC’s by default ,only needing texture tweaks obviously,

but otherwise imports great into Maya, C4D and of course Blender

G3-G8 was beyond useless in this regard

without special plugins.

By Kelleytoons - 2 Years Ago

Yeah but those of us who stay in the RL universe need to find other ways.

As I said, I doubt whether G9 will ever be supported natively by CC4 but at least I can bring them in via XChange (I'll have to look at Mr. G's vids but I honestly don't think he can do the same thing you can do in XChange, which brings in ALL the morphs and allows you to easily assign them. It looks like in CC4 you need to bring in each morph separately via OBJ or some other BS and that would take a LOT longer. This, BTW, is the reason I encourage ALL folks to hang onto programs like XChange and iClone 7 (and, yes, even CC3). Some of the new stuff cannot do the same things.

By Kelleytoons - 2 Years Ago

R Ham (2/25/2024)

Nice. I'll give that a try. If you did facial expression (and visemes) in 3DX, you had to turn it into a non-standard first. I couldn't get 3dx to accept the G9 skeleton.

Well, of course it's a non-standard human, just like the Daz cat (the only "standard" humans are those which are CC compatible). And I just defined (and then saved) the G9 skeleton as a preset so it's easy to rig (and even the facial expressions are fairly easy to rig - I've done them enough now that I can redo it all in less than five minutes. Again, I could not find ANY way to do this in CC4 except bringing in each morph one at a time - uggg!).

By Kelleytoons - 2 Years Ago

4u2ges (2/24/2024)

I have already shown the import of Body/Mouth visemes for G9 into Face Editor here: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost547927.aspx
Just added a quick morphs translation and tweak in that video.

Okay, but in XChange I can easily assign all the visemes to the same visemes in the Expression Editor without having to "import" them (they exist in the FBX file and show up as selectable in that XChange editor). Are you saying you bring them in one at a time or can you also get all the many dozens in at once? Because honestly it takes about five minutes inside of XChange to map everything correctly but I can't see you could do it in CC4 without spending at least 30 minutes (or maybe a lot more).

I'll look at that thread when I get a chance to see but I doubt it could be any easier than doing it in XChange.

By AutoDidact - 2 Years Ago

I encourage ALL folks to hang onto programs like XChange and iClone 7

3DXchange 7 pipeline greatly streamlines my pipeline for bringing the ragdoll physics into Iclone from the free open source Poser physics plugin for poser 12-13.

https://bitbucket.org/PhysicalcSoftware/poserphysics/src/master/

I run the simulation in poser

( with a poser native) and save the PZ2 for old Daz mike 3 and 3DX imports him pre-animated with his ragdoll animation already in the perform editor ready to save as Imotion for iclone.

no “converting to non standard” required.

So yeah I too suggest keeping 3DX installed as it still offers great utility
for getting external data into the Iclone ecosystem without alot of manual labor.

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

Thank you.
I could be wrong, but at this time, I believe I may be able to do this without Blender.

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

It looks like I have more than one approach to consider

As a draftsman on the way up, I was taught, "If a thing looks simple, it's done right. If it looks complicated, it's done wrong." I've always found this to be true. (FWIW, this forum reminds me of the drafting room) Less is always more.

I do find 3DX to be very valuable, but its scaling will make me go blind. That said, I will use it if I have to.
No one has mentioned how their approach was lipsynced, what tool was used.

Now I'll try to duplicate these approaches. Good luck to me.

By AutoDidact - 2 Years Ago

No one has mentioned how their approach was lipsynced, what tool was used.

Not that it matters as my “G9 curiosity” test destination was Blender/C4D/Maya not Iclone.

But I used the built-in audio based lipsynch feature that requires you to use the 32 bit version of Daz studio.

There are a few really good third party lipsynch plugins for

64b bit Daz but all really expensive and frankly moot as your goal is to use iclone’s native acculip/accuface etc.

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

AutoDidact (2/25/2024)

No one has mentioned how their approach was lipsynced, what tool was used.

Not that it matters as my “G9 curiosity” test destination was Blender/C4D/Maya not Iclone.

But I used the built-in audio based lipsynch feature that requires you to use the 32 bit version of Daz studio.

There are a few really good third party lipsynch plugins for

64b bit Daz but all really expensive and frankly moot as your goal is to use iclone’s native acculip/accuface etc.

Ah, you lipsynced in Daz and brought it in as an animation.

My goal is to use iClone lipsync. It worked OK with the Daz House Cat. There will be a way to make it work with G9, I currently assume.

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

Kelleytoons (2/25/2024)

As I said, I doubt whether G9 will ever be supported natively by CC4

Or when. A few years would not be surprising.

By R Ham - 2 Years Ago

4u2ges (2/24/2024)

Tell me please. Is your imported G9 able to use iClone lipsync?

By AutoDidact - 2 Years Ago

Tell me please. Is your imported G9 able to use iClone lipsync?

what has me confused is why Reallusion was not able “transform”

Genesis 9 into CC4 as it was done with with the previous genesis figures.

As you know, with CC3 we never actually “imported” genesis figures but merely projected their shapes and textures onto an iclone native

base thus making it completely compatible with all of Iclone native facial and body animation tools.

It really did not matter how radically morphed the previous genesis figures were as long as it did not depend on those pesky Daz “geografts.

G9 even heavily morphed is not all that radically different as exported FBX

as the easy import into other 3DCC’s (without special plugins) proves.

I wonder what is so different this time.

Here is the Genesis 2 male with a minotaur morph “imported” via the “transformer” tool and is now a fully native CC3 avatar.
talking in Iclone