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By R Ham - Last Year
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In Stage One, the character is shown in Daz. It's a new G9 Character. It will be exported as an FBX. The head and body are morphs.
In Stage Two, the character is shown imported into RL. The results are the same both in iClone and CC4, either as a Prop or a Humanoid. All the morphs are gone, including visemes.
I've read and tried everything I can find. The results are the same.
I don't know what to do next.
 
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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It came in just fine for me:
I'm not sure what you did wrong - when I dropped and dragged the Daz FBX file in it asked me if I wanted to auto-characterize it. Because I wasn't sure where it went wrong for you I answered no, and then in the rig I chose the Gen 9 one and it rigged it just fine. My export from Daz are the normal ones I always use for ALL my Gen characters (so nothing special there) and I don't even know what to tell you (be sure you have "Morphs" checkmarked).
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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Oh, but be aware you will NOT get any visemes this way - AFAIK dragging and dropping an FBX into CC4 won't do this magic for you (I'm not even sure how to do that process - I think you have to rig the morphs separately yourself like using Blender or some such. This, BTW, is the reason I don't care at all for Gen 9 figures).
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Kelleytoons (2/22/2024)
Oh, but be aware you will NOT get any visemes this way - AFAIK dragging and dropping an FBX into CC4 won't do this magic for you (I'm not even sure how to do that process - I think you have to rig the morphs separately yourself like using Blender or some such. This, BTW, is the reason I don't care at all for Gen 9 figures).
I'd like to bring the morphs in along with the file. I don't see why not, but maybe I'm wrong.
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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I'd like to bring the morphs in along with the file.
Which morphs?
General body/head mesh morphs are not applicable in CC through the import.
And DAZ blend-shapes (all for separate face parts half of which do not work) are quite messy to import to Face Editor in CC4.
As I said in the other thread you need to set morphs to Bake in Export Rules or simply uncheck "Include Morphs" and you'd have a shape from DAZ viewport exported as is.
Yes, RL does not have G9 face profile just yet, but DAZ face is all bones. It is not that overly difficult to bind Standard face profile Morphs/Vizemes in CC4 with Proportion tool.
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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Actually, Mr. G, I DID have the Morphs box checked (and made sure they were included) in my FBX export. So that, at least, worked anyway.
But - as you say - importing those as actual visemes and/or other morphs into CC is a mess. In theory you could import all of it to Blender as blendshapes (which does work) and then in Blender export each one as an OBJ to full value (you can do this in Daz as well, baking the individual morphs, but it's a lot longer process). Then in CC you could edit the necessary facial morph shapes by choosing each one of the exported OBJs but... sigh, it makes me tired even writing this, let along doing it.
I'm not sure why Genesis 9 isn't supported by CC4 (it really should be) but your best bet is to stick to 8 and below (my hunch is that RL will never get around to allowing Gen 9 import - that ship has sailed what with Accurig and the second iteration of the face thingee (whose name escapes this old man at the moment). Ideally they really ought to just combine them (allow you to import ANY avatar and also then attach a facial CC3+ head made with the face thingee - all they would need do to accomplish this is do some sort of neck blending with the mesh).
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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Not checking it basically equals to Bake ALL currently applied morphs.
Otherwise, if it's checked, you may select in Export Rules what to "Bake" and what to "Export".
"Export" means it's included as slider only, but not getting applied to figure on FBX export (that is why OP was getting what they got in CC).
I would certainly discourage getting DAZ morphs along (except maybe for visemes).
Even in Blender you have to find and dial 2-3 morphs for a single blend-shape (separately for muscles, eyebrows, eyelashes - for top parts at least).
And then still have to do a bone related morphs addition in CC separately.
But having DAZ face bones in CC makes the process of creating face morphs a snap without much hassle.
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By R Ham - Last Year
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4u2ges (2/23/2024)
I'd like to bring the morphs in along with the file.
Which morphs?
General body/head mesh morphs are not applicable in CC through the import.
And DAZ blend-shapes (all for separate face parts half of which do not work) are quite messy to import to Face Editor in CC4.
As I said in the other thread you need to set morphs to Bake in Export Rules or simply uncheck "Include Morphs" and you'd have a shape from DAZ viewport exported as is.
Yes, RL does not have G9 face profile just yet, but DAZ face is all bones. It is not that overly difficult to bind Standard face profile Morphs/Vizemes in CC4 with Proportion tool.
No morphs come in. None of any kind. I am trying to work with Humanoid, not with CC characters.
Bake has always been a hard term for me to grasp. Incorporate or Include might've been easier to remember.
Baking did have quite a visible result. The body retained its original shape. Still no morphs though.
Here's why this seems odd to me. I imported the Daz House Cat, with no baking. After it was converted to Humanoid, the body was twisted but the speech morphs were all still available. KellyToons demonstrated this, you may remember. The imported head speaks. I had hoped for similar results with the G9 Tiger Man.
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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I *think* the difference is the House Cat IS rigged with those visemes. As Mr. G says, facial positions for Gen figures are controlled via bones. If you look at the morphs for the Lahr figure you'll see there are no visems morphs (so you can't export them as you can with the Daz cat).
Mr. G seems to think it's easy to use the bones to rig the mouth (I think?) but I wouldn't know how to do it.
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By AutoDidact - Last Year
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The imported head speaks. I had hoped for similar results with the G9 Tiger Man. Actually Daz has moved so far away from common sense Viseme/morph based facial animation, the even their own legacy Daz studio lipsynch tools are effectively worthless with G9, requiring external iphone/Arkit based solutions like “face Mojo” to get any results. Nothing wrong with such modern solutions ,of course, as long as you keep some basic audio based viseme animation options in place for the casual hobby users as Reallusion does with Acculips
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By R Ham - Last Year
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AutoDidact (2/23/2024)
The imported head speaks. I had hoped for similar results with the G9 Tiger Man. Actually Daz has moved so far away from common sense Viseme/morph based facial animation, the even their own legacy Daz studio lipsynch tools are effectively worthless with G9, requiring external iphone/Arkit based solutions like “face Mojo” to get any results. Nothing wrong with such modern solutions ,of course, as long as you keep some basic audio based viseme animation options in place for the casual hobby users as Reallusion does with Acculips
I have found that the G8.1 DMC file works with G9. Not perfectly, but good enough for an animal face like the G9 Tiger. The Daz House Cat imported As a Humanoid works with Acculips. Yes, Daz seems to be losing its grip on one of its best assets, animals with Visemes. That's why I'm making them work now, before they disappear.
Below, this cat was lipsynced in iClone. It was imported as a Daz FBX, converted to Humanoid, turned into a pretzel shape, then manually posed by me. Visemes were not an issue.
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Kelleytoons (2/23/2024)
I *think* the difference is the House Cat IS rigged with those visemes. As Mr. G says, facial positions for Gen figures are controlled via bones. If you look at the morphs for the Lahr figure you'll see there are no visems morphs (so you can't export them as you can with the Daz cat).
Mr. G seems to think it's easy to use the bones to rig the mouth (I think?) but I wouldn't know how to do it.
The G9 figure is equipped with visemes. The question is, where. I suspect my problem may be related to the way I've configured my FBX Export options, particularly the Morph Export rules. One clue is, no matter how I configure the Morph Export Rules, The Staging list never reflects any added morphs. I may not be calling for them in the right way.
  
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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This is the rule I mentioned for importing visemes
"ctrl_vUW","Export"
"ctrl_vW","Export"
"ctrl_vTH","Export"
"ctrl_vTH","Export"
"ctrl_vT","Export"
"ctrl_vSH","Export"
"ctrl_vS","Export"
"ctrl_vOW","Export"
"ctrl_vM","Export"
"ctrl_vL","Export"
"ctrl_vK","Export"
"ctrl_vIY","Export"
"ctrl_vIH","Export"
"ctrl_vF","Export"
"ctrl_vER","Export"
"ctrl_vEE","Export"
"ctrl_vAA","Export"
"Anything","Bake"
It will bring the set for each node (Genesis figure, eyelashes, eyebrows, mouth). Those extra nodes sets could be deleted before pushing into custom section on FBX face morphs import.
And some of them need to have jaw bone movement added later on when translating them into RL visemes.
And this is how to make blend-shapes for DAZ characters (specifically for G9 as RL does not have the profile for them yet).
I did speed through in the middle...
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Thank you for such a meticulous reply.
I took a deeper look at my Daz FBX Export Options panel (shown). It seems to say that I have already been exporting all the morphs, including the Visemes.
Then I tested your FBX Export Morph Rules instructions. FBX Export Options tells me I implemented them properly.
Then I exported the character from CC4 to iClone, to use the Morph Creator. It found nothing. Not a single morph.
It appears that Daz is exporting the morphs, but iClone/CC4 is blocking them. What might cause this?
What is the best way to verify the presence of morphs after an import?
  
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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Well, you are not going to see those morphs in iClone. And frankly you do not need visemes there.
For characters, RL ONLY imports morphs in CC through Face Editor when you import them manually AFTER you import the character.
You only need Genesis9 Facial and Genesis9 Mouth (those are for the teeth) viseme sets.
You then translate those to respective RL visemes (other tweaking might require). I have not done that as I had no needs.
But generally, you dial the DAZ viseme, then go to RL visemes and click the lightning bolt icon next to the respective viseme. Done.
And if you need series of specific Body Morphs for animating those in iClone, I will put a routine for G9 later on.
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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Okay, so I'm *sort of* there - at least I can get the visemes in fairly easily (although why the wild card character isn't working I have no idea nor any patience to find out).
Rigging the visemes and even all the head and facial components seems easy EXCEPT for some reason the jaw (which, remember, in Daz is a bone control) doesn't drop down when he's speaking (I used Acculips for this test). If it did all would be well but I don't understand as the jaw IS mapped properly.
I'm sure I'm just *slightly* away from getting this to work properly but at this point I don't know what else to try.
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By R Ham - Last Year
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UPDATE
The morphs are in now. I can export it from iClone to CC4, convert it to Humanoid, reinstall the morphs, and export it back to iClone. In iClone I can now use the lipsync tools.
There's a little problem where the lips don't move during or after the lipsync. They move fine with the morph sliders in iClone 8, but when they come back from CC4 as a Humanoid, they don't move.
Thanks 4U2GES for your coaching. I've wanted to know a bit about the FBX Export settings for a while. Now I can make a more slender, more focused FBX file. The Import Morph FBX function is a thing I had wanted.
Let's see if I can make the lips move now.
 
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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That is not how you do it. You do not drive Acculips with iClone morphs.
It would be crazy to manually apply a morph for every phonem! :hehe:
You need to make visemes and have it built Lips track automatically from audio and text.
OK, here is a quick one I made. Profile for G9 with visemes only (no other blend shapes).
It is certainly not perfect (kind of made for angry talk :)) and no tongue visemes either. But it does work OK.
Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FnlfyT5fzVxjA-9jNTy2nwubWkiyAVMm/view?usp=sharing
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Above, I posted a short cat lipsync animation. The cat was a Humanoid. It was done only by importing. It was done by the process outlined by Kellytoons in his YT vid. I have a whole room full of cats with speech abilities.
I am under the impression that the same process is possible using a Daz Genesis character. I admit it isn't working out so well. If I get you correctly, you are telling me it is not possible. True?
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Kelleytoons (2/23/2024)
Okay, so I'm *sort of* there - at least I can get the visemes in fairly easily (although why the wild card character isn't working I have no idea nor any patience to find out).
Rigging the visemes and even all the head and facial components seems easy EXCEPT for some reason the jaw (which, remember, in Daz is a bone control) doesn't drop down when he's speaking (I used Acculips for this test). If it did all would be well but I don't understand as the jaw IS mapped properly.
I'm sure I'm just *slightly* away from getting this to work properly but at this point I don't know what else to try.
Argh?! This is exactly what I am after. How on Earth did you do it? Yes, the jaw thing is my problem too. I'm guessing now, the G9 has some weird bones (I've not tried this with a G8). I hoped AccuRig would replace all the non-standard bones, but I guess it missed the jaw?
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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I didn't use Accurig - I did it in XChange (because it's where I can see the details - one of the things they do to make it "easier" for you is remove power).
And I did map that bone to the jaw correctly - it opens and closes just fine in the Edit Facial Characteristics. So I don't know why it doesn't work properly. I was kind of hoping Mr. G would weigh in but maybe I'll first look exactly at his videos and then if I don't see something I'll make a video showing my exact process here (which is essentially the same as bringing the Daz cat in - except the face just doesn't work properly the way it does with the cat).
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Kelleytoons (2/24/2024)
I didn't use Accurig - I did it in XChange (because it's where I can see the details - one of the things they do to make it "easier" for you is remove power).
And I did map that bone to the jaw correctly - it opens and closes just fine in the Edit Facial Characteristics. So I don't know why it doesn't work properly. I was kind of hoping Mr. G would weigh in but maybe I'll first look exactly at his videos and then if I don't see something I'll make a video showing my exact process here (which is essentially the same as bringing the Daz cat in - except the face just doesn't work properly the way it does with the cat).
We're on the same page now. I'll stay tuned.
If I had a Genesis9_Male_iCloneFaceKey.duf I would try it.
https://manual.reallusion.com/Character-Creator-4/Content/ENU/4.0/09-Pipeline/Full-Conversion-for-DAZ-Genesis-8-Characters.htm
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By R Ham - Last Year
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4u2ges (2/23/2024)
And some of them need to have jaw bone movement added later on when translating them into RL visemes.
The jaw bone movement is the thing. How do you recommend adding that?
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By R Ham - Last Year
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4u2ges (2/23/2024)
Well, you are not going to see those morphs in iClone. And frankly you do not need visemes there.
For characters, RL ONLY imports morphs in CC through Face Editor when you import them manually AFTER you import the character.
You only need Genesis9 Facial and Genesis9 Mouth (those are for the teeth) viseme sets.
You then translate those to respective RL visemes (other tweaking might require). I have not done that as I had no needs.
But generally, you dial the DAZ viseme, then go to RL visemes and click the lightning bolt icon next to the respective viseme. Done.
And if you need series of specific Body Morphs for animating those in iClone, I will put a routine for G9 later on.
Now we begin.
- If I import the figure into CC4 as a Prop, the Facial Editor is not available.
- If I import the figure into CC4 as a Creature, the Facial Editor is not available.
- If I try to import the figure into CC4 as a Humanoid, Characterization will fail due to the G9 structure. The Facial Editor is not available.
- If I import the figure into iClone, then use Edit in Character Creator, Characterization will fail due to the G9 structure. The Facial Editor is not available.
I'm out of guesses. Please tell me how you imported the figure to CC4. How did you get the Facial Editor to be available?
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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For the past couple of days I imported probably half dozen of G9 character. All videos I ported are G9s.
OK so this is a prequel exporting from DAZ and importing to CC4
The rest in the other video.
And making regular blend shapes also shown here (that is also G9): https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost547907.aspx
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By R Ham - Last Year
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I appreciate your effort to help, but I can't follow what you're doing.
You might want to look at this link: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost547990.aspx
Others are as confused as I am. You may be the only one who knows how to deal with this issue.
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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but I can't follow what you're doing.
But why, what is the issue?
Others are as confused as I am.
As to others.. AutoDidact does not even have CC4/IC8 installed :P
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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Oh for cry not allow! :w00t:
From past experience I honestly disbelieved that Genesis with animal faces could be imported with Transformer..
So I did not even try. And now I did out of curiosity.. 2 minutes and I got the Lahr as CC3+ with Extended face profile
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By R Ham - Last Year
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My message to AD describes my current problems. This is the second week I've been struggling with this. At some point, soon, I will resort to using a non-speaking tiger in my scene. If I have to do this, the fault will be RLs, no one elses.
Pictures of a screen with no text to back it up don't always teach much. I can learn to dig a hole from a video, but playing the piano is too sophisticated for video alone. You know so much that you may have forgotten what it is to know nothing. Seeing through the other person's eyes can be very difficult.
This popup is a bit misleading. I believed it. A properly converted humanoid does not have problems with speech. Second to render speed, speech is the greatest strength of this software.
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By AutoDidact - Last Year
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From past experience I honestly disbelieved that Genesis with animal faces could be imported with Transformer.. So I did not even try. And now I did out of curiosity.. 2 minutes and I got the Lahr as CC3+So I did not even try. And now I did out of curiosity.. 2 minutes and I got the Lahr as CC3+
Now you see why I was so puzzled why you were not just “transforming” ( AKA shape projecting) onto a CC character as we users of the “old” CC3 are still doing with all manners of animals & alien morphed genesis 1,2,3,8 figures Nothing special about animal head morphed genesis figures unless they rely on unsupported Daz tech like geographs or daz “dforce “hair etc.
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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Nothing special about animal head morphed genesis figures unless they rely on unsupported Daz tech like geographs or daz
Yes, that is true. I did not go deep into this particular one at the beginning as I did not even have it.
So I assumed since R Ham does not use Transformer, there probably something is not coming through correctly.
And then I continue with G9 Humanoid type import...
But as far as I could see it looks and behave just fine as CC3+
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Well, I just pulled it in as a CC3+ and, it came it fine. Slight kink in the tail, easy to hide. Then I sent it to iClone, and lipsync worked fine.
Something I was assuming all week was obviously wrong. This thread moved me to try again. Thanks people. Next time I'll think different.
This is a great character.
Hasty Lumbago :-D
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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Wait - are we saying that Transformer supports G9 characters? INCLUDING the textures? (The latter being what I can't believe is true).
Let me see... OMFG! I cannot believe it! I stand (well, sit) corrected.
CC4 does indeed *seem* to support G9 natively, through Transformer. Where the f*** was I when THIS was announced? (Or was it ever announced?) And does this mean that 8.1 is also natively supported? (I guess that's next on my checklist).
Well - thanks, Mr. G. As with you, I just assumed... and we all know how dangerous that is (although it IS kind of funny that when a Gen part is hidden, as do some of the outfits that you apply in Daz do to the figure, that it still causes issues with import. I KNOW that's still a problem because yesterday I had to do my workaround in CC4 (just put another same Gen figure in the scene for export). You'd think if they went to all the trouble of supporting G9 figures they would have fixed this bug (it would be easy for them to still recognize the character for what it is and just go ahead and fill in those hidden meshes. I think. Maybe the FBX export removes them, though).
Again, I cannot thank you enough. I never would have tried this but it's MUCH easier to do than any other way (Note: the other way still is useful for those figures that clearly are not Genesis - things like the Daz Cat and T-Rex 3 still need this approach. But I went and followed Mr. G's advice about that - before I learned about Transformer working - and you can indeed bring ALL the morphs into CC4 fairly easily).
Best thing about this being a CC3+ avatar: ability to apply other content to it.
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By R Ham - Last Year
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My 15 minutes of joy is over.
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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When you brought it in did you bake the textures (first checkbox at the top)?
Although - I can't see how you could not have done so and still gotten ANY textures. If you look at my example I didn't have the issue you have. So I'm not quite sure what's going on (my first impulse would be to compare your Daz export settings with mine).
Now I'm going to have to try some more G9 figures before we "assume" this is just something that will always work (so off to do ti).
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By R Ham - Last Year
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Baking did the trick. Thanks. Now to fool with the tail.
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By AutoDidact - Last Year
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Not Aware of any big announcement from RL about Transformer support for G9
‘but I am subscribed to this guy’s channel and saw his video about it 5 months ago and assumed you guys already knew.
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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Yeah WAY too much assuming around here LOL.
No, I had no idea and would never have tried it (what part of Mr. G's mind made him do so I do not know, but my 'at's off to the govenor" as they say).
I feel like I have to also post this to my channel on the off chance that the 6K or so folks who follow me might include some who, like me, were ignorant of this change.
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By R Ham - Last Year
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We used to say, "When you ASSUME, you make an A55 out of U and ME."
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By R Ham - Last Year
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4u2ges (2/25/2024)
Nothing special about animal head morphed genesis figures unless they rely on unsupported Daz tech like geographs or daz
Yes, that is true. I did not go deep into this particular one at the beginning as I did not even have it.
So I assumed since R Ham does not use Transformer, there probably something is not coming through correctly.
And then I continue with G9 Humanoid type import...
But as far as I could see it looks and behave just fine as CC3+
I thought that, since I didn't need it for the House Cat, I wouldn't need it for the Tiger. There's the ASSumption.
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By 4u2ges - Last Year
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lol I knew all along.. You just have to follow the announcements: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost537875.aspx :)
The other thing, I did not use it much just tried a couple to verify it's working and forgot about it.
But on Thursday, when I saw this thread, I tried again to transfer that African girl Azee and it worked.
Then I said, Mike should have known better, if he's quiet about Transformer, then there is a problem with this particular asset bringing it through and the only option is Humanoid.
And then I blocked it from my mind and continue researching Humanoid options for G9 after I got Lahr from GFX...
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By R Ham - Last Year
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All's well that ends well.
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By AutoDidact - Last Year
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4u2ges (2/25/2024)
lol I knew all along.. You just have to follow the announcements: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost537875.aspx :)The other thing, I did not use it much just tried a couple to verify it's working and forgot about it. But on Thursday, when I saw this thread, I tried again to transfer that African girl Azee and it worked. Then I said, Mike should have known better, if he's quiet about Transformer, then there is a problem with this particular asset bringing it through and the only option is Humanoid. And then I blocked it from my mind and continue researching Humanoid options for G9 after I got Lahr from GFX...
Funny thing is being an “out of the loop” hold over still running 7.x & CC3 I was afraid to even challenge anyone’s modern methods and was suspecting that perhaps Daz had released some recent update to G9 that once again broke the transformer since watching that guy’s video last year.:crazy:
Glad the OP got his Character imported & speaking and yes its a cool figure.
BTW if you ever need a cool Battle mech for Iclone this highly morphed G8/9 figure works via transformer or 3DX.
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By Kelleytoons - Last Year
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"Mike should have known about it". Yeah, that's another assumption (LOL).
And if my life wasn't heading straight into the garbage bin (well, at least in terms of my wife's health) perhaps I would have. But I've just recently found a tiny bit of time to do things other than healthcare and thus I got involved in this.
I will note one thing I found (which is VERY different and may confuse folks): if parts of the Gen 9 body are hidden by clothing items you do not get an error - however, the clothing items will then not import (and the character itself is screwed up). Worse, you can't fix this with my usual "add another body into the scene" as it still screws things up. I haven't, at this moment, got a workaround for it but right now it means that SOME clothing items for Gen 9 figures can't be imported (I'll keep working on this). Now - if RL had actually asked me to test this out I would have found this but, of course, I'm on the persona non grata list nowadays <g>.
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By R Ham - Last Year
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I'm going after the Tiger's face hair now: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost548022.aspx
Please join me.
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By R Ham - Last Year
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The Result: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost548090.aspx
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