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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Hi,
I want to project a video on a plane - no problem (e.g. video as texture).
But: How can I project a video on a plane like a beamer? That is, if actors walk between the beamer (source of light) and the plane through the beams, the video should also be partially visible on the actors and other objects.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Greetings, Ulrich
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By animagic - 2 Years Ago
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Interesting problem.
What you can do is create a Spot Shadow, which is a spotlight that only produces a shadow.
https://manual.reallusion.com/iClone-8/Content/ENU/8.0/20-Scene/Light/Shadow_Caster.htm
Adjust it so that the shadow is cast on the screen. It would not completely block the light from the screen so I don't know how will it works.
Another idea is to render just the shadow on a white screen of the same proportions as your video and place the resulting video in the Blend channel, set to Multiply. The black will suppress the image from your video.
https://manual.reallusion.com/iClone-8/Content/ENU/8.0/30-Set/Video/Applying_Videos_into_Texture_Channels.htm
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Hi animagic,
thank you very much for your quick reply.
I will try it - and report.
Ulrich
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Hi animagic,
it's a pity I wasn't successful. I probably made a mistake or misunderstood something. My test setup:
Horizontal plane as floor, vertical plane 16:9 with an image, cylinder as moving object (later), spot shadow caster.
Your suggestion 1: The shadow of the cylinder is cast on the vertical plane; the cylinder does not receive an image section as would be the case with a beamer.; nsert the image as a texture of the cylinder; the UV adjustment would be extremely complex for a moving cylinder (screenshots #1 & #2)
Your suggestion 2: Shadow (with shadow caster) on a white screen (screenshot #3); "...render just the shadow on a white screen of the same proportions as your video and place the resulting video in the Blend channel, set to Multiply. The black will suppress the image from your video." I do not understand what to do: How can I render just the shadow?
I also tried to solve my problem with the "Signal Light.iProp", replacing the bat with another image - no success so far.
Nevertheless, thank you for your suggestions, Ulrich
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By animagic - 2 Years Ago
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I see. Of course, the video projection would be on the object blocking the screen. I didn't think of that and would not know how to do that...:unsure:
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By Nirwana - 2 Years Ago
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Well, is this something like you are looking for?
If so, I'd assume that it can not be done in iClone because, AFAIK, iClone does not use real ray tracing.
I put together this little video in Cinema 4D: a single light is projecting the image with the car onto a vertical plane with a few objects moving in between the plane and the light. The objects have different materials. The figure has a non-shiny material and the bucky ball is reflective; both cast solid shadows whereas the pyramid is semi-transparent (so some of the projected light still hits the plane).
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Hi Nirwana,
that would be the result I need. Too bad it doesn't work in iC.
Thanks for th hint.
Greetings, Ulrich
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By gordryd - 2 Years Ago
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Hello, I've been thinking of how to do this and came up with a partial solution (your mileage may vary) using a GI Emissive Plane - Square as the 'projection source'. - I scaled the GI Plane to match the 'Screen' dimensions, then loaded the video into the Diffuse channel (make sure you have 'Emissive Side' selected in the Materials tab)
- Go to 'UV Settings' and flip it horizontally (otherwise it 'projects' a mirror image)
- Start with Self-Illumination at 100 (you can always back this off)
- IMPORTANT! Set GI Plane as 'Dummy'. It will still emit but won't be visible in the scene
For the Screen:- Scale a plane to 16:9 and imported the video to the Diffuse channel, with Self-Illumination set to 100
A few caveats: - All other lights should be turned OFF
- IBL should be 'Activated' but set to 0 (otherwise GI won't work)
- The GI Plane needs to be VERY CLOSE to the Column (or whatever you want in front) in order to show the effect.
- The image is blurry but matches the color/action of the 'film'.
- I could not get the Shadow Caster to work in this case. Maybe some other post-production method would work.
Example (still shot) 
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By 4u2ges - 2 Years Ago
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I have made it with UV projection.
Unfortunately, it's only good for a single material object where object texture does not matter much.
I used cylinder in this case.
First I unwrapped the cylinder "projected from view" in Blender and placed it's UV in one corner (preliminary applying a video to the diffuse channel so that I could estimate proper placement).
Then in iClone applied the same video to a plane and cylinder.
Moved the cylinder in front of the plane screen at the timeline.
Also applied some bump map to the cylinder as well to stop the illusion that cylinder is rotating.
Finally at the end, when cylinder stops, I set the offset by U to the value of -0.9 (could be positive or negative depending on the direction).
This is done for the diffuse channel only. The value itself controls where at the map to stop sliding the texture (video in this case).
I use a single directional light with strong shadow.
Spotlight with volumetric for a beamer.
Camera placement and angle also play an important role and should be figured experimentally.
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Thank you very much (gordryd & 4u2ges) for your interesting suggestions. I will try out and report the results.
Unfortunately, I don't have enough in-depth experience yet (and I'm not that fast anymore); so it will probably take a while.
But it is very encouraging for me to receive professional help from users here in the forum so quickly.
Thanks a lot.
Ulrich
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By Nirwana - 2 Years Ago
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Since my first version did not work with volumetric light, I re-did my little test and also used one of my animations as the video to be projected.
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Hello, at first I have tried out the suggestions from gordryd (procedure suggested by 4u2ges is a bit difficult for me because I haven't worked with Blender yet) My test set-up (from front to back): >> screenshot 1 (front view), screenshot 2 (right side view).
1: GI Emissive Plane - Square as the 'projection source' 16x9; emissive side (with a video in Diffuse/BaseColor channel; self-Illumination = 100; GI Plane set as 'Dummy' (small red markers in the screenshot). 2: White cylinder just behind the emissive Plane; no texture, self-Illumination = 100. 3: Screen 16x9 with video in Diffuse/BaseColor channel; self-Illumination = 100. IBL is activated but strength = 0. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me (no blurred image on the cylinder). I probably misunderstood one of the instructions - but which one?
Best wishes, Ulrich
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Sorry, i set font color to white, but it is black!
Hello, at first I have tried out the suggestions from gordryd (procedure suggested by 4u2ges is a bit difficult for me because I haven't worked with Blender yet). My test set-up (from front to back): >> screenshot 1 (front view), screenshot 2 (right side view). 1: GI Emissive Plane - Square as the 'projection source' 16x9; emissive side (with a video in Diffuse/BaseColor channel; self-Illumination = 100; GI Plane set as 'Dummy' (small red markers in the screenshot). 2: White cylinder just behind the emissive Plane; no texture, self-Illumination = 100. 3: Screen 16x9 with video in Diffuse/BaseColor channel; self-Illumination = 100. IBL is activated but strength = 0. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me (no blurred image on the cylinder). I probably misunderstood one of the instructions - but which one?
Best wishes, Ulrich
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By Nirwana - 2 Years Ago
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Ulrich,
While I admire your tenacity in this matter, I have to ask: Why is it so difficult to accept that there are things that iClone can't do properly? Even the "more advanced" solution by 4u2ges is limited and also requires the use of third-party software (in this case Blender).
There are reasons why I limit the use of iClone/CC to certain aspects of my workflow (i.e. creating and animating characters) and for everything else (including final rendering) I use Cinema 4D. So, if you insist on doing things that iClone can't do well or not at all, you should be prepared to learn a more fully-featured 3D software and add that to your pipeline.
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By nick_tregenza - 2 Years Ago
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Loving the creativity on display here, for possible solutions! :-)
It's true - CC and iClone are great for character creation and animation - and for basic storyboard/ animatic purpoises. But if you want a full, 3D scene with more going on, you do need another 3D package. Personally, I use 3DS Max for all my modelling needs, and Unreal Engine for all my rendering and weather based effects. Everything else, I do at the compositing stage. I'm a compositor for a living, so I never got a chance to learn character modelling, rigging and animation, so CC and iClone are a godsend for somoene like me!
But I would never try to get anything else out of it, other than character creation and animation. To get the best end results, you will invariably end up using more than one package - it would be a mistake to try and achieve everything in one place. So for personal projects, my own order is:
1. 3D package for overall modelling (props, vehciles and specific environments)
2. CC for, well, characters.
3. iClone for character animation
4. Unreal Engine for large environments, weather/ lighting, and rendering.
5. Nuke for compositing (although After Effects and Fusion are just as good).
6. DaVinci Resolve for editing, grading, sound, and final delivery.
In my experience, if you try to cut out anything up to 3 of those steps and try to do it all in one, not only will it take longer, you will come unstuck!!
Spread the work over different apps - and you will suddenly find that effects like the projection you are trying to do, are MUCH easier in either a dedicated 3D package, or a compositing app.
If you can't get any of the above suggestions from everyone else on here to work (and they are all great answers!), then the compositing stage should be your next suggestion.
Nuke and Fusion have a true 3D space, unlike AE, so you can import 3D objects and animations into those, and *actually* project your image onto your animation. And for my money, is a MUCH quicker way of doing it, as you can tweak to taste at the post stage.
I hope this helps!
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By nick_tregenza - 2 Years Ago
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Loving the creativity on display here, for possible solutions! :-)
It's true - CC and iClone are great for character creation and animation - and for basic storyboard/ animatic purpoises. But if you want a full, 3D scene with more going on, you do need another 3D package. Personally, I use 3DS Max for all my modelling needs, and Unreal Engine for all my rendering and weather based effects. Everything else, I do at the compositing stage. I'm a compositor for a living, so I never got a chance to learn character modelling, rigging and animation, so CC and iClone are a godsend for somoene like me!
But I would never try to get anything else out of it, other than character creation and animation. To get the best end results, you will invariably end up using more than one package - it would be a mistake to try and achieve everything in one place. So for personal projects, my own order is:
1. 3D package for overall modelling (props, vehciles and specific environments)
2. CC for, well, characters.
3. iClone for character animation
4. Unreal Engine for large environments, weather/ lighting, and rendering.
5. Nuke for compositing (although After Effects and Fusion are just as good).
6. DaVinci Resolve for editing, grading, sound, and final delivery.
In my experience, if you try to cut out anything up to 3 of those steps and try to do it all in one, not only will it take longer, you will come unstuck!!
Spread the work over different apps - and you will suddenly find that effects like the projection you are trying to do, are MUCH easier in either a dedicated 3D package, or a compositing app.
If you can't get any of the above suggestions from everyone else on here to work (and they are all great answers!), then the compositing stage should be your next suggestion.
Nuke and Fusion have a true 3D space, unlike AE, so you can import 3D objects and animations into those, and *actually* project your image onto your animation. And for my money, is a MUCH quicker way of doing it, as you can tweak to taste at the post stage.
I hope this helps!
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By nick_tregenza - 2 Years Ago
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Ooops, accidentally double posted - how do I delete one of them?
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By animagic - 2 Years Ago
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nick_tregenza (1/31/2024)
Ooops, accidentally double posted - how do I delete one of them?
Not possible...:crying:
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By nick_tregenza - 2 Years Ago
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Damn, that's annoying..! But good to know...
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By gordryd - 2 Years Ago
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@us_g_bw: For your Step 2, turn off (set to 0) the "Self-Illumination" on the cylinder/column, otherwise it becomes a big "light bulb" :)
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Hi gordryd,
too bad, it doesn't work for me even if I set Illumination = 0 (or slightly higher) for the cylinder.
I'm afraid I'll have to give up trying with the "beamer". Despite everything, thank you for your help.
Best greetings, Ulrich
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By us_g_bw - 2 Years Ago
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Hi, Nirwana & nick_tregenza,
You are certainly right when you point out the limited capabilities of iC & CC.
I have installed Blender and Unreal Engine for testing. For an 80-year-old hobby user, these systems take quite a long time to learn. I don't have that much time left.
Cinema 4D is also not uncomplicated and costs a lot (at least here in Germany).
Thanks for the advice though.
Best greetings, Ulrich
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By nick_tregenza - 2 Years Ago
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That's the problem with society these days - we take far too much for granted.
80 years old - major kudos to you...!!! It's never too late to learn anything (except maybe skydiving..lol), but that's seriously impressive!
You put a lot of people to shame - and I am glad that you are doing so! :-)
I thought I started late - I'm in my 50s, and only started learning about 15 years ago - but you are living proof that if you want to learn anything badly enough, there is nothing that you cannot do!
Lesson learned - and I apologise for assuming that you were a student out of school...!
Happy to help out, if I can - but I too, have only just picked up CC and iClone recently (within the last 2 years), so we can probably learn from each other... :-)
But if you wanna know more about compositing? I can definitely help out there!
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By Nirwana - 2 Years Ago
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Cinema 4D is also not uncomplicated and costs a lot (at least here in Germany).
Yes, Cinema 4D is not free (not just in Germany), but that is true for most capable 3D packages with the exception being Blender (I don't consider DAZ a complete package like Blender), UE is somewhere in between but--so I understand--getting to be more capable all the time. However, I was not suggesting that you use C4D. It is merely what I use, because I started with it some 20 years ago; today, I would probably also consider Blender. I was just pointing out that you need an additional 3D tool that is more fully-featured than iClone if you want to create stuff like this projection. I'm pretty sure the same effect can be achieved in Blender, but since I don't know that program well enough, I did not use it to demonstrate this effect.
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