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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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Hi! I am one of those who were not able to catch up and buy 3DXChange Pipeline before it became unavailable for sale. Since I cannot upgrade to iClone 8 and Character Creator 4 yet, I will probably have a difficult time importing / exporting 3D models as well as lose Unreal Live Link. So I was thinking of just using my Character Creator 3 Pipeline for game creation for the time being. I haven't actually gotten the chance to fully use these software that much yet and just starting to learn them. Anyhow, I have these questions that I hope someone can answer: - Would it still be possible to create custom motions / animations and also attach MOCAPs for any imported CC3 models in Unreal 5 & Blender even without using iClone 7?
- Are the Bones of imported CC3 Models in Unreal 5 & Blender already automatically properly rigged? If not, what add-ons/software besides iClone can you recommend that I use to make it work in Unreal 5 & Blender?
- Lastly, since I will also lose lip-syncing animation of iClone 7, are there other software alternatives I can use to have that for imported CC3 models in Unreal 5 & Blender?
Thanks in advance for any info you may provide!
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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If you have the Character Creator 3 pipeline, you should already be exporting your iClone animations.
Unreal Live link is not required, you can use the auto setup plugin to transfer your characters and animations to UE.
In other words, you can easily use your animations and characters that you will prepare using CC3 characters in UE.
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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Wilby (10/6/2022)
Hi! I am one of those who were not able to catch up and buy 3DXChange Pipeline before it became unavailable for sale. Since I cannot upgrade to iClone 8 and Character Creator 4 yet, I will probably have a difficult time importing / exporting 3D models as well as lose Unreal Live Link. So I was thinking of just using my Character Creator 3 Pipeline for game creation for the time being. I haven't actually gotten the chance to fully use these software that much yet and just starting to learn them. Anyhow, I have these questions that I hope someone can answer: - Would it still be possible to create custom motions / animations and also attach MOCAPs for any imported CC3 models in Unreal 5 & Blender even without using iClone 7?
- Are the Bones of imported CC3 Models in Unreal 5 & Blender already automatically properly rigged? If not, what add-ons/software besides iClone can you recommend that I use to make it work in Unreal 5 & Blender?
- Lastly, since I will also lose lip-syncing animation of iClone 7, are there other software alternatives I can use to have that for imported CC3 models in Unreal 5 & Blender?
Thanks in advance for any info you may provide!
As for Blender ,if you have CC3 pipeline you can use the free Blender pipeline tool to send animated Characters directly to blender. ARP has multiple motion retargeting profiles built in including one for the CC3 figure skeletons as well as the Perception neuron and Rokkoko Mocap suits.
This means that any Blender user (with at least IC7&CC3 pipeline) can rig any Character in Blender in minutes with ARP and still have access to their entire library of existing imotions or any new ones you create in IC7 without any need for the vestigial 3D exchange.
ARP is also far..FAR superior to Accurig as it has a face rigging&multi-limb options for non biped quadrapeds & creatures and will give you access to any character eco system including Daz Genesis without waiting for Reallusion to catch up with the latest version from Daz ARP also has rock solid Game rig export presets for UE5 &Unity and is used heavily by Game developers in the Blender community.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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yepkoo (10/6/2022)
If you have the Character Creator 3 pipeline, you should already be exporting your iClone animations.
Unreal Live link is not required, you can use the auto setup plugin to transfer your characters and animations to UE.
In other words, you can easily use your animations and characters that you will prepare using CC3 characters in UE.
First time I tested the Auto Setup Plugin for UE ver.1.25 for a CC3 model. It generated just one error about a texture name clash for 'Std_Tearline_R_Opacity', but it worked! I was also able to play an included Mixamo-RLMotion animation in the UE Sequencer. It looks like it will also work when the model is converted to a Player pawn/avatar in UE5. Will have to check how to do that later on and also try to make some short motions manually + do some lip-sync in iClone to import in UE5. I guess those are the only important features I will require from iClone + CC3 and if there is no need for 3DXchange to do these, then that would be great! Thank you! :-)
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/6/2022)
As for Blender ,if you have CC3 pipeline you can use the free Blender pipeline tool to send animated Characters directly to blender. https://youtu.be/Kyhw4VsfYIg
I have tried Mr. Victor.Soupday's CC3/iClone Tool and was able to successfully import a CC3 Character in Blender. I then tried using Rigify to re-rig the model but I'm not sure why it seems some parts seem to have no IK. I might be missing some steps.
AutoDidact (10/6/2022)However I personally strongly recommend making the $40 USD investment in Auto Rig Pro for Blender. https://blendermarket.com/products/auto-rig-pro ARP has multiple motion retargeting profiles built in including one for the CC3 figure skeletons as well as the Perception neuron and Rokkoko Mocap suits. This means that any Blender user (with at least IC7&CC3 pipeline) can rig any Character in Blender in minutes with ARP and still have access to their entire library of existing imotions or any new ones you create in IC7 without any need for the vestigial 3D exchange. ARP is also far..FAR superior to Accurig as it has a face rigging&multi-limb options for non biped quadrapeds & creatures and will give you access to any character eco system including Daz Genesis without waiting for Reallusion to catch up with the latest version from Daz. ARP also has rock solid Game rig export presets for UE5 &Unity and is used heavily by Game developers in the Blender community.
That sounds like an excellent add-on in Blender. Is that better than the free built-in Rigify? Haven't actually used it much yet... If I utilize Auto-Rig Pro, do I still need it's Quick Rig add-on for use on CC3 Characters? I will probably still need to do some non-humanoid Character models in Blender so having an efficient rigging tool that can help successfully and quickly export to UE5 would be a great idea. I haven't tried using Daz yet but it looks interesting. I tried installing their software before but I was prompted for an unregistered certificate or something so I didn't push through with it.
You have so many helpful videos in your Youtube Channel so I just subscribed. Thanks for the tips! :-)
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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Is that better than the free built-in Rigify? Rigify is actual pretty good if you plan to hand key most of your animations. However retargeting external motion to the rigify control rig is not as easy and there is no built in rigify retargeting tool
so you have to use one the third party retargeters like the free Rokkoko or Expy kit addon ARP has built in retargeting templates for all of the major character systems. And I personally like the the viewport rig controllers alot better than the ones with rigify.
If I utilize Auto-Rig Pro, do I still need it's Quick Rig add-on for use on CC3 Characters?
No, once you have Autorig pro you will have all you need for professional rigs for animation and game rig export
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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yepkoo (10/6/2022)
If you have the Character Creator 3 pipeline, you should already be exporting your iClone animations.
I just tried fiddling with CC3 & iClone. I can see that without 3DXChange, there would be limitation on being able to import and use MOCAPs from third-parties like Mixamo, other FBX motion libraries that I already have, etc. I will be restricted to using existing RLmotions and manual/by-hand animations inside iClone. If my partial workflow would be exporting CC3+ characters from Character Creator 3 and using the Auto Setup Plugin for importing that character into UE5, what would be the best approach to still be able to use non-Reallusion motions for that character in UE5?
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/6/2022)
Rigify is actual pretty good if you plan to hand key most of your animations. However retargeting external motion to the rigify control rig is not as easy and there is no built in rigify retargeting tool
so you have to use one the third party retargeters like the free Rokkoko or Expy kit addon ARP has built in retargeting templates for all of the major character systems. And I personally like the the viewport rig controllers alot better than the ones with rigify.
hmm... I would probably need to get Auto-Rig Pro then. But before anything else, have you tried that approach and then exported those CC3 Characters with separate animations in Blender to an FBX file. Then directly imported them into UE5 to use as player avatar? Did it work ok? It seems there is no Auto Setup tool from Blender to UE5 directly.
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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You cannot import Mixamo animations as you said.
However, if you do some research on the internet, you can find mixamo animations in ready-made iC7 format.
Also, I don't remember the subject, but there were 3,000 motion files shared here.
The other way is to try AutoDidact's method. He is very experienced in blender.
If you ask my opinion, as I mentioned in the previous topic, if your budget is suitable, it is to switch to CC4 + iC8.
Even if you learn 3DXchange, this information will not be of any use to you in new versions. It takes 1-2 minutes to animate a character or prob in CC4. In iC8 it takes a few seconds to import ue, mixamo or any other animation.
Also, creating an animation is 60-70% easier than iC7.
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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It seems there is no Auto Setup tool from Blender to UE5 directly.
I personally do not use game engines.. I render animated films in Blender. However with ARP, you have a direct Bender to UE5 tool that even renames the bones to match the UE mannequin as this guy shows near the end of his video.
Additionally there is a free game rig tool for Blender that prepare rigs for export to UE 5 as well.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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yepkoo (10/7/2022)
You cannot import Mixamo animations as you said.
However, if you do some research on the internet, you can find mixamo animations in ready-made iC7 format.
Also, I don't remember the subject, but there were 3,000 motion files shared here.
I think I already have those converted motions. But I might need specific ones that are not available there. Also, I found it a pain to search and view each animation in that library for a character inside iClone unlike when it is in Mixamo site. I hope there was a quicker way to browse each of those Reallusion formatted animation files.
yepkoo (10/7/2022)The other way is to try AutoDidact's method. He is very experienced in blender.
In my current situation, I think that is the best way if I can figure out the ideal process in exporting animations for CC3 characters in Blender to UE5.
yepkoo (10/7/2022)If you ask my opinion, as I mentioned in the previous topic, if your budget is suitable, it is to switch to CC4 + iC8.
Even if you learn 3DXchange, this information will not be of any use to you in new versions. It takes 1-2 minutes to animate a character or prob in CC4. In iC8 it takes a few seconds to import ue, mixamo or any other animation. Also, creating an animation is 60-70% easier than iC7.
I will probably get there. But not right now as I feel I need to still expand my knowledge first in Blender & UE5. I don't want to repeat my past mistake of buying all these expensive Reallusion software too soon just to find myself stuck with missing/unavailable features when I finally have the time to use them more. But I fully appreciate your opinion and I will continue to have my eyes on these software.
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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yepkoo (10/7/2022)
You cannot import Mixamo animations as you said.
If you ask my opinion, as I mentioned in the previous topic, if your budget is suitable, it is to switch to CC4 + iC8.
The OP already stated: “Since I cannot upgrade to iClone 8 and Character Creator 4 yet”, So until that happens he is apparently looking for alternatives. He can wait for an affordable sale price or wait until he can make the nearly $600?? payment for the upgrade to a version of iclone that he will only be using for base layer character motion data creation and export to an external program. Or he can use his current IC7&/CC3 pipeline version and spend a mere $40 USD today for ARP.
Use ARP to re-rig his imported CC3 Avatars (or any model from anywhere) in minutes. His Blender ARP rigged avatars will have instant use of any& all Mixamo motions directly in blender via the built-in retargeting templates of ARP ARP will retarget any imotions exported as FBX files from CC3 pipeline. (I recommend using the Victor soupday addon for the best import ..not the blender standard FBX importer.) So really, it is just a matter of how soon the OP wishes to get started and how much money he wishes to spend.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/7/2022)
I personally do not use game engines.. I render animated films in Blender. However with ARP, you have a direct Bender to UE5 tool that even renames the bones to match the UE mannequin as this guy shows near the end of his video. Additionally there is a free game rig tool for Blender that prepare rigs for export to UE 5 as well.
Nice! Will check those add-ons and do some more research on how these will work together with CC3 & UE5. It looks like Auto-rig Pro is the way to go in my current case. I realize it's a must to also know first how to use other more flexible tools that have much lower cost before anything else. Later on when I'm more comfortable, I can try the more expensive ones to help quicken production time. Thanks for the suggestions! :-)
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/7/2022)I recommend using the Victor soupday addon for the best import ..not the blender standard FBX importer. Yes, I have tried that add-on and it works great! Next step, I have to learn basic rigging first in Blender and check why my first try didn't seem to work properly. Thanks again! :-)
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By michaelrbarton - 3 Years Ago
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If you go to the Mixamo web page, and type in "pack" in the search box on the Animation side, it will show
multiple motions to download to your character for that pack. For instance, the pro rifle pack has 49 motions in it.
I hope this helps.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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michaelrbarton (10/8/2022)
If you go to the Mixamo web page, and type in "pack" in the search box on the Animation side, it will show
multiple motions to download to your character for that pack. For instance, the pro rifle pack has 49 motions in it.
I hope this helps.
Hi! Yes, I noticed that before. But thanks!
My problem now is how to successfully export a CC3 Character w/ animation from Blender to UE5. I just tried using Mr. Victor.Soupday's CC/iC Tools version 1.4.9 more. Rigging was easily done therein by just clicking a button (more info here). Furthermore, importing external animations (i.e. from Mixamo) using the tool also worked successfully within Blender. But I noticed there is no Export to Unreal feature. It has Export to Unity though and I also tried that and imported the FBX file in UE5 using the Auto Setup for Unreal Engine version 1.25 process. An "Export Smoothing..." error appeared in the final Error Log in UE5 and no animations were imported. But most of the Texture Materials appeared ok except some in the area of the eyes of the CC3 Character.
I also tried the built-in Export FBX of Blender and results is worse after importing the CC3 Character in UE5. Next step would probably be to check out Auto-Rig Pro's Export to Unreal feature. But will have to do some more research on it first before finally buying it. Might also try to see how to separately import external animations and use it in a CC3 Character Mesh already inside UE5.
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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Yes, you can import animations into the UE with the mixamo character and you can retarget those animations to the CC3 character by retargeting the CC3 character to the mixamo character.
I haven't retargeted the Mixamo characters before, but it can be done with some effort.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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Wilby (10/8/2022)An "Export Smoothing..." error appeared in the final Error Log in UE5 and no animations were imported.
CORRECTION:
I tried it again but pressed the "Bake Unity Animation" button first before clicking "Export To Unity" button. I then dragged the generated Mixamo FBX motion file into my UE5 Project directory and configured the UE5 Import window that appeared to target the specific Skeleton I want to add the motion to. This worked in UE5!
I also tested some FBX motion files I got from Unity in the past and they were imported successfully in Blender using the CC/iC Tool. But the Bones are quite small so I tried resizing them using the Graph Editor... The CC/iC Tool broke and displayed some errors related to Python when I press the Preview Retarget button. I also tried importing some free animations from MOCAP Online and the Bones exploded upon import. I remembered there are still limitations when using the CC/iC Tool with regards to importing animations. Only the animations taken from the following sources are compatible:
- From Reallusion
- Character Creator
- ActorCore
- GameBase
- iClone
- From Mixamo (Experimental)
"However retargeting external motion to the rigify control rig is not as easy and there is no built in rigify retargeting tool so you have to use one the third party retargeters like the free Rokkoko or Expy kit addon. ARP has built in retargeting templates for all of the major character systems. And I personally like the the viewport rig controllers alot better than the ones with rigify.".
So I searched some more and found UEFY 2.0 which is about US$30. It works only with Rigify. But it looks like Auto-Rig Pro has more features and therefore more value at US$40. If I will be using one of these, I wonder if they're compatible with the CC/IC Tools.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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yepkoo (10/8/2022)
Yes, you can import animations into the UE with the mixamo character and you can retarget those animations to the CC3 character by retargeting the CC3 character to the mixamo character. I haven't retargeted the Mixamo characters before, but it can be done with some effort.
If using only Mixamo motions in UE5, it looks like this made it a lot easier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrPpwjX5eLU
It will probably work with custom characters uploaded in Mixamo site too!
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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This is not what I meant.
If you can retarget the Mixamo skeleton to the CC character by creating a Rig file in UE5, you can retarget the mixamo animations to the CC character.
I am not sure if it will work well as this is not something I have tried before.
Or you can retarget thy mixamo and CC3 skeletons to the UE4 mannequin.
Thus, you can use the animations of both systems.
However, you can only use these animations as they are.
You still need Blender to produce a different animation.
So your only solution seems to be to properly import the character from Blender into UE5.
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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I remembered there are still limitations when using the CC/iC Tool with regards to importing animations. Only the animations taken from the following sources are compatible: •From Reallusion • From Reallusion •Character Creator • Character Creator •ActorCore • ActorCore •GameBase • GameBase •iClone • iClone •From Mixamo (Experimental) • From Mixamo (Experimental) ◦XY Bots ◦ XY Bots ◦General Humans ◦ General Humans Victor has done an excellent job with the the CC/IC Pipeline tool. However its export features are more focused on sending Characters back to Iclone and its motion retargeting features are mostly limited to sources already compatible with the Iclone ecosystem.
I used the CC/IC pipeline tool for quite a few animation projects until I migrated back to the Daz Genesis figures
that I import directly to Blender and convert to ARP rigs for animation & retargeting But it looks like Auto-Rig Pro has more features and therefore more value at US$40. If I will be using one of these, I wonder if they're compatible with the CC/IC Tools.
If you use ARP you will only need the”import animations” feature of CC/IC, tool to import skeletal animations into blender from FBX files you exported from CC3 pipeline You already own Iclone 7.9 so you have access to all imotion files (prior to IC8) you wont be using the CC/IC tool to convert to rigify or retargeting motions because your ARP rigs will automatically accept any motion from any of the sources shown in the attach pic. And any other random BVH/FBX etc. from sources not in the ARP template, can be manually bone mapped through name picking and saved as a custom profile for later use, as we used to do with the old 3D exchange app.
Finally ARP has a built in feature to create a new rest pose for your source rigs to match the ARP rigs rest pose which is vital for a correct retarget. I am currently working on a Star Wars fan short where the primary speaking Characters are imported from Daz studio& converted to ARP rigs and ALL of the generic StarWars canon figures are models downloaded from sketchfab and given the same ARP rigging making them all fully compatible with every motion source at my disposal right inside Blender All made possible because I use ARP. |
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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yepkoo (10/8/2022)
However, you can only use these animations as they are. You still need Blender to produce a different animation. So your only solution seems to be to properly import the character from Blender into UE5.
Yes, you're right... or another path I was considering is just make the different custom animations in UE5 and combine them with other existing MOCAPs therein when needed. Any cut-scenes/films will be made in UE5 and then Blender will only be utilized for modifying/enhancing the 3D models. If that's the case, I will only have to figure out how to successfully export a compatible rigged model into UE5 from Blender. Coming from Character Creator 3, there seems to be no problem exporting and importing into UE5 using the Auto-Setup.
Also, it looks like adding a Control Rig in UE5 is more complicated and time-consuming as can be seen in the video below. But it will only be done once for each character of course.
Thus I'm just not sure which software is easier and more convenient to use as the animation tool: Blender or UE5? If done in iClone 7, it would most probably be easier but will require the purchase of more add-ons like the Curve Editor, PopcornFX, etc. In my situation, I may still be able to use lip-sync (Acculips) in iClone 7 for Character Creater 3 models but exported as a video only since I don't have 3DXChange Pipeline. Restrictions will also have to be considered when the character is talking and what background scene is visible etc. as things are done separately. :-(
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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Also, it looks like adding a Control Rig in UE5 is more complicated and time-consuming as can be seen in the video below. But it will only be done once for each character of course.
Creating The control rig creation in UE5 is not automated like Accurig Mixmao or ARP This is why almost every UE user is creating their Character animation in external programs like Autodesk Maya ,Blender or even Iclone
Thus I'm just not sure which software is easier and more convenient to use as the animation tool: Blender or UE5? If done in iClone 7, it would most probably be easier but will require the purchase of more add-ons like the Curve Editor, PopcornFX, etc. In my situation, I may still be able to use lip-sync (Acculips) in iClone 7 for Character Creater 3 models but exported as a video only since I don't have 3DXChange Pipeline.
Another user here, recently had an urgent need for the old 3Dxchange app. He contacted RL sales and was offered a download link for 3DX7 pipeline for $500 USD. Also the curve editor ,for IC7, is no longer available for purchase AFIAK ,so perhaps sales quote you a price for that as well. However frankly at that point your cost will be exceeding $500 USD so you may as well spend that money on the upgrade to IC8/CC4 and use the
streamlined live link pipeline that Yepkoo and others are using.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidactVictor has done an excellent job with the the CC/IC Pipeline tool. However its export features are more focused on sending Characters back to Iclone and its motion retargeting features are mostly limited to sources already compatible with the Iclone ecosystem. I used the CC/IC pipeline tool for quite a few animation projects until I migrated back to the Daz Genesis figures that I import directly to Blender and convert to ARP rigs for animation & retargeting.
Yes, the CC/IC Tool is quite awesome and a time-saver when used together with Reallusion software suite.
AutoDidactIf you use ARP you will only need the”import animations” feature of CC/IC, tool to import skeletal animations into blender from FBX files you exported from CC3 pipeline. You already own Iclone 7.9 so you have access to all imotion files (prior to IC8).
Ok, I understand there will be no more problems with importing Reallusion supported animation sources using ARP.
AutoDidactYou wont be using the CC/IC tool to convert to rigify or retargeting motions because your ARP rigs will automatically accept any motion from any of the sources shown in the attach pic. And any other random BVH/FBX etc. from sources not in the ARP template, can be manually bone mapped through name picking and saved as a custom profile for later use, as we used to do with the old 3D exchange app.
Alright, using ARP will expand the supported animation sources which uses various IK-FK configs from the following:- Auto-Rig Pro
- Character Creator
- Mixamo
- Perception Neuron
- Rokoko & Rokoko V2
- Unity FBX
- Unreal Mannequin
Plus also be able to use: - BVH/FBX files from other sources not in the above ARP template sources. This will require manual bone mapping. This means using ARP in Blender will be more convenient than simply using 3D Exchange Pipeline in iClone 7 because it has an available source templates of mapped bones already. AutoDidactFinally ARP has a built in feature to create a new rest pose for your source rigs to match the ARP rigs rest pose which is vital for a correct retarget. I am currently working on a Star Wars fan short where the primary speaking Characters are imported from Daz studio & converted to ARP rigs and ALL of the generic StarWars canon figures are models downloaded from sketchfab and given the same ARP rigging making them all fully compatible with every motion source at my disposal right inside Blender. All made possible because I use ARP. That is an interesting project! Will it be available in your Youtube Channel when your film is done? Can't wait to watch it. :-)
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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Animating with Control rig in UE is definitely not something I would do. That would be pretty boring.
It seems more logical to use blender instead.
Acculips should be exported to UE as far as I know.
Make sure to check the Import morphs option when importing.
But you can't export popcorn to UE anyway.
Because popcorn is not an exportable product, you can only render it as a video.
RL support can answer whether you can buy the Curve Editor for iC7, as the Curve editor is included for free with iC8.
If you already have iC7 motion files of mixamo animations and you buy animations from RL stores as an extra, you can obviously produce hundreds of different animations without the need for an extra animation.
You can also take a look at the following post shared by @argus10002.
It has 2000 motion files.
https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost522437.aspx
If I were you, I would probably do a little more research to expand my motion library.
I would buy animation from the RL store and go with iC7 which would allow me to animate more easily.
Your next option may be to use programs such as Blender, Maya.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/10/2022)Creating The control rig creation in UE5 is not automated like Accurig Mixmao or ARP. This is why almost every UE user is creating their Character animation in external programs like Autodesk Maya ,Blender or even Iclone. Another user here, recently had an urgent need for the old 3Dxchange app. He contacted RL sales and was offered a download link for 3DX7 pipeline for $500 USD. Also the curve editor, for IC7, is no longer available for purchase AFIAK, so perhaps sales quote you a price for that as well. However frankly at that point your cost will be exceeding $500 USD so you may as well spend that money on the upgrade to IC8/CC4 and use the streamlined live link pipeline that Yepkoo and others are using.
Yaiks! ARP and animating in Blender is getting more enticing each day. :-) If only I have enough budget now for iC8/CC4, I would have upgraded already. But thinking about that, more add-ons for them would probably be needed to be purchased in order to produce a more complete short film. hmm... I want to check first if someone already created a plugin for UE5 to make animation easier inside it. Let me see what's available in their Market.
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By animagic - 3 Years Ago
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@Wilby: A lot of the functionality of 3DXchange 7 is now included in CC and some of it in IC. Also, IC has now the Curve Editor included so no extra purchase is necessary in that regard.
RL has been and is working really hard to improve and expand the animation tools in iClone 8, so for ease of animating that is a consideration.
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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If only I have enough budget now for iC8/CC4, I would have upgraded already. But thinking about that, more add-ons for them would probably be needed to be purchased in order to produce a more complete short film. hmm... I want to check first if someone already created a plugin for UE5 to make animation easier inside it. Let me see what's available in their Market. If you could upgrade to IC8/CC4 , you will have better motion creation& editing tools to create short film(inside Iclone) as well as some improved render options such as motion blur and a “mirror shader You already have the tools to complete a short film in IC7 with CC3 if you are fine with the render engine quality or any potential VFX options.
You already have the tools to complete a short film with IC7 with CC3 in Blender 3.3, via the Blender pipeline tool by Victor Soupday.
and have access to two superior render engines better particle system, fluids without any paid addons for blender.
And Blender has free addon to bring in Daz genesis figures fully intact as FK rigs or converted to rigify IK/FK control rigs.
We now even have a way to use the Daz genes facial animation options AFTER conversion to an ARP rig
There is a large part of this community that uses unreal engine and they can tell you why they are not creating their character animation completely inside unreal engine. You have alot of options today for character animation (perhaps too many) your only decisive factors are what you find comfortable and ,or course, cost.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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yepkoo (10/10/2022)Acculips should be exported to UE as far as I know. Make sure to check the Import morphs option when importing. But you can't export popcorn to UE anyway. Because popcorn is not an exportable product, you can only render it as a video.
I actually just learned today, with a tip from RL support, that I can export Face & Body motion files made in iClone 7 through CC3. I thought I can't because I was using the File -> Export -> FBX and not through 'Collect Clip' track. So I kept being prompted to upgrade or use 3DXchange. I really have to use iClone 7 more. :-)
yepkoo (10/10/2022)RL support can answer whether you can buy the Curve Editor for iC7, as the Curve editor is included for free with iC8.
Yes and the latest version has more integrated features from 3DXChange. But I think I have to try checking out the current features of iClone 7 for now while trying to save up for the big upgrade.
yepkoo (10/10/2022)If you already have iC7 motion files of mixamo animations and you buy animations from RL stores as an extra, you can obviously produce hundreds of different animations without the need for an extra animation. You can also take a look at the following post shared by @argus10002. It has 2000 motion files. https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost522437.aspx If I were you, I would probably do a little more research to expand my motion library. I would buy animation from the RL store and go with iC7 which would allow me to animate more easily. Your next option may be to use programs such as Blender, Maya.
You're probably right and that's a reasonable path to take.
Maybe you already know about this but I've just discovered earlier that Epic Games has a FREE add-on/plugin that sort of works like "Live Link" between Blender & Unreal Engine 5. The Send To Unreal Add-on makes it quicker to Export & Import assets between the two programs. It even supports animations. I've tested exporting a static model from Blender and it automatically got updated in my open Unreal project. I have to check this add-on more. Maybe it would make this easier to export rigged characters in Blender as long as bones are in correct UE5 format. See video here:
More info can be found in the Epic Games website here.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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animagic (10/10/2022)
@Wilby: A lot of the functionality of 3DXchange 7 is now included in CC and some of it in IC. Also, IC has now the Curve Editor included so no extra purchase is necessary in that regard. RL has been and is working really hard to improve and expand the animation tools in iClone 8, so for ease of animating that is a consideration.
I agree, there are a lot of improvements made in iC8 and CC4 and it looks like it's more inuitive to use than ever. I will most probably upgrade when the time comes. :-)
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/10/2022)If you could upgrade to IC8/CC4, you will have better motion creation& editing tools to create short film(inside Iclone) as well as some improved render options such as motion blur and a “mirror shader. You already have the tools to complete a short film in IC7 with CC3 if you are fine with the render engine quality or any potential VFX options.
For the time being, I will be using iClone 7 more to see its capability since I already have it. Maybe I will need the Curve Editor add-on more though than 3DXchange Pipeline...
AutoDidact (10/10/2022)You already have the tools to complete a short film with IC7 with CC3 in Blender 3.3, via the Blender pipeline tool by Victor Soupday and have access to two superior render engines better particle system, fluids without any paid addons for blender. And Blender has free addon to bring in Daz genesis figures fully intact as FK rigs or converted to rigify IK/FK control rigs. We now even have a way to use the Daz genes facial animation options AFTER conversion to an ARP rig.
It's quite important to include Blender in the workflow. It just requires more time investment to get acquainted with. But it's free, powerful, and has a lot of support so it's a definite win! :-)
I'm also interested in Daz. But I couldn't understand why they can't make their installer and uninstaller look more safer. It always wants to ask for full User Account Control of my machine. :-(
AutoDidact (10/10/2022)There is a large part of this community that uses unreal engine and they can tell you why they are not creating their character animation completely inside unreal engine. You have alot of options today for character animation (perhaps too many) your only decisive factors are what you find comfortable and ,or course, cost.
I fully understand. Thanks for all the advice. :-)
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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Here's how to easily export separate animations of a model made and animated in Blender to Unreal Engine 5 using 'Send To Unreal' add-on. The tool is now in version 2.1.4 and just got updated 17 days ago so it's still active. Hoping it can also export Control Rigs made in Blender into UE5. :-)
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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I've decided to delay my upgrade for CC4 & iClone 8 until maybe late next year. In the meantime, I will be using the following tools in my learning phase:- Character Creator 3 Pipeline (...and iClone 7 maybe for lip-sync & facial animation)
- Blender 3.3
- Add-on: Auto-rig Pro w/ Quick Rig
- Add-on: Animation Layers
- Unreal Engine 5
I needed to have a flexible tool that can easily retarget MOCAPs not just from Reallusion, but coming from third-party sources as well. When I was searching online, I found more tutorials for Blender and some of its add-ons that seem to meet my requirements. Maybe since iClone 8 & CC4 is still new, there are still less available online tutorials about it's new features. I just can't find any tutorial on how to use MOCAPs in CC4 that were sourced from Unity. I wanted to know how to quickly do that without the need to use 3DXchange Pipeline because I found a tutorial about the old method. Anyhow, I also kept being distracted by so many nice products and promos of Reallusion that I got lost from my initial objectives. :laugh: For those interested, here are some tutorial videos I found that helped me in my decision: Motion Capture - Retargettinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AutNCxcK0Xc
Fast Rigging and Animation: AccuRig, Mixamo & Quick Rig (Blender workflow)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiwvs_QywMAMotion Capture - Animation Layershttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIf1kNTxvZoFree Custom Motion Capture in Blenderhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVLFRoL_ur4Thanks to all those who assisted me! I hope I can finally make something soon. :laugh: |
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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With the exception of unreal engine, you have almost adopted my exact pipeline.:D
Except that I use Daz studio Character ( with the free Diffeo addon) for my speaking actors.
Glad to see you ready to get into production.!!!
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/29/2022)With the exception of unreal engine, you have almost adopted my exact pipeline.:D Except that I use Daz studio Character ( with the free Diffeo addon) for my speaking actors. Glad to see you ready to get into production.!!!
Good to know I've managed to follow a successful pipeline! Maybe I will try to get into Daz again in the future. For now, I will try to see how it would work with iClone 7 on the lip-sync side since I already have the software anyway. It's time it tries to earn it's worth even in it's incomplete version (i.e. no 3DXchange Pipeline). hahaha :laugh: It would be a great relief if the Send to Unreal free Blender-UE add-on would work nicely as that can be the key to "live link" with UE5 and make it easier to "assemble" the animations therein. :Wow:
I still lack some tools though and so might have to adjust the scope of my planned project. For example, I'm still looking for a good Clothing creation tool. I tried doing it manually in Blender and the cloth simulation just slows down my machine so much. So I am planning to use some add-ons like Simply Cloth Pro. I'm just not sure if the simulation therein will just be the same since I think the impact of the slow down is related more to my computer's hardware specifications. How much "hardware power" would be sufficient to let's say speed up the clothing simulation of a simple "tank top / sando" shirt worn by a Character Creator 3 character model to an acceptable time? :doze:
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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Due to my machine specs I have avoided using cloth simulation on characters ,except as tests.
Thankfully I am skilled at modeling my own as well as having access to every clothing item in the Daz genesis Eco system. And with Auto Rig Pro, I can grab an outfit from sketchfab or nearly anywhere, and after using the Blender sculpting tools to shape it to my characters pose,& Bind it with ARP.
I did this for this short Blender animation with the newly released Daz Genesis 9
so clothing is not really a problem for me.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (10/31/2022)Due to my machine specs I have avoided using cloth simulation on characters ,except as tests. Thankfully I am skilled at modeling my own as well as having access to every clothing item in the Daz genesis Eco system. And with Auto Rig Pro, I can grab an outfit from sketchfab or nearly anywhere, and after using the Blender sculpting tools to shape it to my characters pose,& Bind it with ARP. I did this for this short Blender animation with the newly released Daz Genesis 9 so clothing is not really a problem for me.
That's awesome work! :w00t: You're right, it's faster to get outfits from other sources and just fitting it directly to a character model. Unless it's a customized clothing, looks like I have no choice but to try out that approach using ARP. I then have to look for sources of nice clothing that are reasonably priced. hmm... The Epic Preset Clothing Pack looks interesting and no need to use their Simply Cloth Pro. :D I guess if I go with this, I still have to adjust the weight mapping for the clothes and hiding/unhiding some body parts that protrude. Maybe it would be easier if I can just import the clothes into Character Creator 3 and do that process there. :unsure:
I'm finding out there are a lot of cool and useful add-ons in Blender to process things quicker and probably make it sort of work like iClone. But of course there are additional cost involved to do that. For example, I just found out about 'Grab-It' add-on priced at US$25. I think this feature is already built-in inside iClone. Another important add-on to acquire is Quad Remesher priced at US$60 - 110 depending on the license type. I think it's close counterpart feature in Character Creator is InstaLOD? But that's for characters and accessories use only. Thus, one has to really consider what required features are they still missing and the additional cost implications they will have if they want to achieve a comfortable workflow in using Blender vs. if they are using iClone. One will only know the differences as they learn how to fully use both programs over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmugJhZoaE4
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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For example, I just found out about 'Grab-It' add-on priced at US$25. This addon does the same and it is free Free Dynamic parent addon
And I personally, absolutely, would NOT pay for any external remesher/retopo software for Blender has Blender has several Built-in options for remeshing and converting tris to quads. “Maybe it would be easier if I can just import the clothes into Character Creator 3 and do that process there.” If you are not skilled at modeling in Blender, I think using your existing CC3 pipeline to harvest clothing meshes would be the easiest for you . Keep in mind that your final destination is UE5 . So choose your Blender native options carefully based on how they will eventually have to translate over to UE (presumably via the iclone Live link?)
My final destination is Blender.(EEVEE and Cycles) However I do still use my iclone 7 to quickly cobble together many base layer root motion clips and export ,via CC3 pipeline ,to retarget to my ARP rigs as ARP has a built in profile for the CC3 motion Data imported as FBX.
I no longer use Iclone ,or CC3, for anything other than this. All of my “Star” front camera ,speaking characters are high quality Daz Genesis 8 models re-rigged with ARP while retaining their Shape key, Audio based facial & lip sync ability, via the free Diffeomorphic Daz to Blender Addon.
Any non Daz figure I may grab from sketchfab,Poser etc can be rigged with ARP in minutes and still use the same Iclone/CC3 motion data as my Daz genesis figures. as well Motion data from my Mixamo or perception neuron& rokoko mocap suit data etc . And ARP has a rock solid rig prep and export tool for Unity & UE5
Thus I do not need Accurig stand alone or Accurig advanced (in IC8.1) or any of the Actor core motions. At this point ,Blender with ARP($40) and the animation layers add-on($29) is a complete universal Character animation system
on par with the mighty Autodesk Maya & Motionbuilder All for less than $100 USD.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (11/1/2022)This addon does the same and it is free. Free Dynamic parent addon.
Wow, I didn't know about that, you are a godsend!!! :Wow: Will test out that FREE Dynamic Parent Blender Add-on. It looks like the very simple UI is similar to Grab-It. :)
AutoDidact (11/1/2022)And I personally, absolutely, would NOT pay for any external remesher/retopo software for Blender has Blender has several. Built-in options for remeshing and converting tris to quads. https://artisticrender.com/remeshing-in-blender/
That was what I was also thinking at first. There are already built-in remeshing tools within Blender, so why should I spend more for an add-on. Curiously, I tested some of the built-in ones vs. Exoside's Quad Remesher add-on. In just 1 to 2 steps in Quad Remesher, can produce an almost perfect remesh/retopo result. It's like the conversion was done by hand by an expert. I know I still lack the experience in remeshing/retopoloizing objects in Blender so that may also be the reason I am finding this amusing. Anyhow, here's a review of Grant Abbitt on the various popular Blender remeshing/retopology add-ons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWF49Zu-i-A
To anyone interested, I found out one of the reviewed tools, Retopoflow, w/c is priced at US$86 (Personal Commercial License), has a FREE Github version here. Repology is done manually by hand with this add-on so more time to spend is needed, but it's easier to do than just simply using the built-in tools in Blender. Still, using Quad Remesher is faster although results will of course lack control.
AutoDidact (11/1/2022)If you are not skilled at modeling in Blender, I think using your existing CC3 pipeline to harvest clothing meshes would be the easiest for you. Keep in mind that your final destination is UE5. So choose your Blender native options carefully based on how they will eventually have to translate over to UE (presumably via the iclone Live link?).
My modeling & sculpting skill levels in Blender is still lacking alright hence I still have to depend on Character Creator and/or external add-ons especially for creating humanoids. I find it easier to fit clothes and weight paint them inside CC3. Yes, my final target is UE5 and I am trying to set up everything to converge therein. Blender will be the main tool for modeling and intial animation creation. Character Creator for humanoids character design. "iClone Live Link" I don't have since I do not own 3DXchange Pipeline nor iClone 8. Thus, I don't see "Reallusion Live Link" an integral part in my pipeline. It is nice to have and can be the key to make the workflow faster, but I think is not required in my situation. I have to make some more tests to see how this will go for me with regards to "interfacing" with UE5. My salvation might be using the FREE Epic Games Send To Unreal Add-on available here in Github (Blender to Unreal). You will need to log-in in Github linked to your Epic Games account to access this tool and get more info. I've only linked the download to the recent stable version 2.1.5.
AutoDidact (11/1/2022)My final destination is Blender.(EEVEE and Cycles). However I do still use my iclone 7 to quickly cobble together many base layer root motion clips and export, via CC3 pipeline, to retarget to my ARP rigs as ARP has a built in profile for the CC3 motion. Data imported as FBX. I no longer use Iclone ,or CC3, for anything other than this. All of my “Star” front camera ,speaking characters are high quality Daz Genesis 8 models re-rigged with ARP while retaining their Shape key, Audio based facial & lip sync ability, via the free Diffeomorphic Daz to Blender Addon. Any non Daz figure I may grab from sketchfab, Poser etc. can be rigged with ARP in minutes and still use the same Iclone/CC3 motion data as my Daz genesis figures as well Motion data from my Mixamo or perception neuron& rokoko mocap suit data etc. And ARP has a rock solid rig prep and export tool for Unity & UE5. Thus I do not need Accurig stand alone or Accurig advanced (in IC8.1) or any of the Actor core motions.
Do you have and still use 3DXchange Pipeline in your iClone 7? I guess you will do this only for importing third-party motions into iClone 7 if you still need that?
AutoDidact (11/1/2022)At this point ,Blender with ARP($40) and the animation layers add-on($29) is a complete universal Character animation system on par with the mighty Autodesk Maya & Motionbuilder. All for less than $100 USD.
Thanks for sharing your workflow and thoughts. They're very helpful for me! :) I suggest maybe one of these days, if you can find the time, to create a Youtube video showing one of your basic project's creation. From it's initial stages to full project completion including all the tools you've used and the processes. That would be a magnificent addition to your channel I think. :D
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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Do you have and still use 3DXchange Pipeline in your iClone 7? I guess you will do this only for importing third-party motions into iClone 7 if you still need that?
Actually I have no need to import third party motion into iclone anymore.
I have compiled a hoard of over 4400 Iclone Imotions and a separate archive of over 2400 Mixamo motions as FBX. ARP can retarget any third party sources I might use, directly in Blender.
The only time I need 3DXchange is when someone from the Daz community want to pay for bespoke motion for the Daz figures to be used inside Daz studio,
like these. I suggest maybe one of these days, if you can find the time, to create a Youtube video showing one of your basic project's creation. From it's initial stages to full project completion including all the tools you've used and the processes.
ActuallyI Do have a videos describing my ARP work flow with random,non speaking characters from sketch fab. And a video showing my pipeline for speaking Daz genesis Characters re-rigged with ARP.
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (11/2/2022)Actually I have no need to import third party motion into iclone anymore. I have compiled a hoard of over 4400 Iclone Imotions and a separate archive of over 2400 Mixamo motions as FBX.
I think those Mixamo converted rlMotions (2457) also came from Freedom's Youtube Channel here? I got mine there in the past. May I ask where you got the rest of the 4400 iClone rlMotions? I'm guessing some may be from Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) BVH converted to rlMotions (2500) from the same source?- Do you know of other sources for low-cost MOCAPs that you can share?
- How do you effectively manage and apply all those MOCAP files? Is there a good tool that works like the Mixamo website wherein you can view a listing of all animating MOCAP files in your library and demo the animation applied to a selected character model before actually using them in your animation software of choice?
I found most of the CMU MOCAPs broken though. :( But those from Mixamo have higher quality. :rolleyes: I managed to collect some from Unity Game Engine before and so I wanted to also be able to use them in my future animations. However, according to RL Support, Unity has no general character bone set that is why they did not develop a Profile for it's Skeleton. Bones will require manual retargeting for MOCAP files from Unity. Saving the profile in Character Creator 4 (CC4), will then make using future motions from that same source much easier. I tried testing this but I still cannot make it work using the trial version of CC4 though. I found a related tutorial on how to do this from Freedom (see video below). Sadly, it's still using the old 3DXchange Pipeline & iClone 7. I was expecting this process should now be easier and faster in CC4 and/or iClone 8. :Whistling: I wish Reallusion will make a direct step-by-step tutorial on this covering MOCAP compatibilities and such. |
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By michaelrbarton - 3 Years Ago
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Here is a link to some free and starter animations for Unity and others. I hope this helps.
MoCap 3D Character Animations | MoCap Online
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By Wilby - 3 Years Ago
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Thanks! But I already have some MOCAPs there. I think they're also selling some in the Unity Asset Store. :)
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By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago
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May I ask where you got the rest of the 4400 iClone rlMotions? I'm guessing some may be from Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) BVH converted to rlMotions (2500) from the same source?
I avoid those Carnegie mellon archives as they tend to be garbage not worth fixing There was a thread here in which someone posted a link to about 2000 RL motions but it is likely been deleted by the forum mods. How do you effectively manage and apply all those MOCAP files? Is there a good tool that works like the Mixamo website wherein you can view a listing of all animating MOCAP files in your library and demo the animation applied to a selected character model before actually using them in your animation software of choice?
I use the Old legacy FREE FBX convert/viewer from Autodesk. you still have to drag them into the pre-veiwer one at a time but its bit faster than doing a full import into blender
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By yepkoo - 3 Years Ago
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You can take a look at the post shared by @argus1000 in the topic below.
I don't mean the 3000 mocap animation, which is the topic's own title. These animations are not allowed for commercial use.
However, the animations shared by @argus1000, although I couldn't find a definitive source, it was written that commercial use was allowed according to youtuber's explanation in the comments.
https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost522437.aspx
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