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By drivewithdave - 4 Years Ago
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i contacted realusion support to get some clarity on this section of the eula in the new licence
(C) You may NOT use the Content in the following situations or applications: - In-app content purchase
- In-app character generation
- Character generation API licensing
- As embedded content in the AP or online service
- AI training/ deep learning
- 3D Print for sell or for massive redistribution; or create mold for mass production
The in app content purchase and in app character generation are to vague for me so i reached out to them and it has taken me weeks but they have confirmed that any purhcase inside of a game even with in game money at an in game shop would be classed as a in app content purchase and that any form of character manipulation lets say via bone scale in unreal engine would be classed as a in app character generation.
And as such would need a Enterprise License.
- 2.3 ENTERPRISE LICENSE.
Member may request authorization for a use not covered by the Standard License or Extended License in this Agreement. Reallusion will contact you to negotiate for the Enterprise License case by case.
So game devs get to pay 3 times the price for an Extended Licence which is very restrictive not many games out there that do not have some form of shop or char selection ( they classed male and female as char generation ).
You mentioned "What are your classification of char generation I can use bone scale in unreal to change the size of the mesh via the size of the bones giving the impression of a choice in size on arms and so forth are you trying to say that is not allowed? What about in-game shops for in-game money that is a transaction"
-- For this inquiry, that is Character Generation in game and purchase character (made with Reallusion content) in game, then you will need Enterprise license.
Please fill out the Enterprise License Inquiry form via this page and sumbit the form to our sales team, we will assign a dedicated account manager to contact you in a few days.
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By Sifr - 4 Years Ago
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This application is too restrictive at this point. I've been using Reallusion products for 15 yrs. since v.2 & have never missed an upgrade. But given that they refuse to allow unrestricted use of their content unless videos or images & jacking the price up to crazy amounts for it, I'd rather just use Blender at this point. It makes no sense to purchase their products anymore when it's basically the same price of Z-brush. Reallusion needs to catch up with the times & the current XR metaverse trends, they advertise as such but don't honor what they advertise, if I create an avatar using my likeness who's going to own it? Reallusion? & if I create an avatar for a client what restrictions does Reallusion impose on my client for an avatar in his likeness? The metaverse doesn't provide avatars for their world you import your own, only Meta does this because in all actuality it's a closed platform just like Reallusion is basically is unless embedded in a game, this is great for large teams but for solo indies, this isn't sustainable to recoup spending costs of production. The metaverse is open, not closed, legacy corp is closed & everybody is moving away from closed ecosystems because of the artist robbery that it entails. Legacy business models are done & so is RL if they keep advertising as a tool, but is restricting what an artist can do with the tool.
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By Sophus - 4 Years Ago
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Sifr (9/15/2022)
if I create an avatar using my likeness who's going to own it? Reallusion? & if I create an avatar for a client what restrictions does Reallusion impose on my client for an avatar in his likeness?
If I understood it correctly, the 3D topology, the design of the pre-made bone system, pre-made textures, pre-made UV-maps of the models is Reallusions intellectual property so they can decide what you can do with it or not.
You "just" need to remodel the topology, create your own bones, textures, UV-maps, then its your own 3D model and you should be able to do whatever you want with it.
I think Reallusion just don't want certain users to pay once for a character and then create avatars like on an assembly line and sell them for a lot of money and Reallusion never sees some money from it even if they did most of the work.
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By drivewithdave - 4 Years Ago
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all of that is easy to live with but its not the case.
I purchased all of my content on the export license with 3d exchange. They changed the license.
i have mass distribution license's but those apparently no longer count as they changed the license
now they gave me an upgrade on all my products to the new license type. All of this to make the licence process easier and it says commercial or mass distribution for games.
but if i buy a new product then it will cost me 3 times the price of a standard license that is just a choice we all have to make and is transparent.
Hidden away in the EULA is a 3rd license type.
almost all games have some form of char generation within them male female select mage, or warrior so forth reallusion says this requires the enterprise license costing even more money but these licenses did not exist when I purchased my products so why do I need to pay again not to mention how will I remember what I got when if I now purchase more content.
on top of this most games have some form of in-game shop that guy you walk up to and purchase your nice new helmet with in-game currency reallusion now say this is an in-app purchase of a product and would also require an enterprise license again at extra cost.
so now every single person that has a product from me even with a mass distribution license and the new free extended license can not use those products in their games unless i purchase them an enterprise license for an undisclosed fee that reallusion will not give me an estimate on. And for an indie now they need to purchase a new enterprise license the whole system got worse for game devs not better
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By Peter (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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drivewithdave (9/16/2022)
almost all games have some form of char generation within them male female select mage, or warrior so forth reallusion says this requires the enterprise license costing even more money but these licenses did not exist when I purchased my products so why do I need to pay again not to mention how will I remember what I got when if I now purchase more content.
It's important to remember that there is a difference between selecting different characters in game and a character generator. For example, you could export from CC4 a male, female or different classes of characters and allow the user to select which character to use in game. This would not be classed as a character generator and would be covered by the Extended License.
A character creation system in game would be something that allows you to select different parts like eyes, mouth, nose, skin color or use sliders to adjust body size etc. This type of character generator would not be covered by the Extended License, and you would need to discuss further with us regarding an Enterprise License which are issued on a case-by-case basis.
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By lowejohn7 - 4 Years Ago
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you made a very good point we generate nothing in a game we select everything
as we do not generate then no enterprise license is needed thank you
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By c68 - 4 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (9/16/2022)
you could export from CC4 a male, female or different classes of characters and allow the user to select which character to use in game
This approach might work if you have just a handfull of characters or very basic classes. If you want to implement a simple customize screen like this:
then you would have to generate 3 ^ 5 x 2 = 486 characters which would require about 48 gb of diskspace ...
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By lowejohn7 - 4 Years Ago
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but your not generating a mesh you are altering or selecting
Morph sliders only move the vertex so there is no generation involved
you are then saving those selections to use within your game but no generation was ever done in the game
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By c68 - 4 Years Ago
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^^ This is actually a good point, lowjohn7!! :) And from a technical POV you are totally right... nothing is generated, its all just switching and combining of already generated data ...
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By lowejohn7 - 4 Years Ago
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just make sure to call your in-game char selection a char selector not a generator as calling it a generator would make it very difficult for you to argue it was not one.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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There may be sanctions for using software-generated assets in violation of the EULA, giving different meanings to the terms of the EULA. I don't think anyone would take that risk.
After all, we all know what it is that RL forbids. Even if it is not clearly stated in the EULA, the repeated disclosure of this article of the EULA by the official staff of RL in this forum will be sufficient as evidence.
If we think with this logic, this program is not a character creation program either.
Then why do we customize or produce characters?
I am not writing because I support this clause of the EULA.
After all, nobody likes restrictions.
Like everyone else, I would like to use any program freely without restrictions.
However, misinformation can cause people to suffer material and moral damage.
At least a simple customization of clothes and hair should be allowed.
Although I don't need character customization, I want to know if there is a problem with the character being able to wear the clothes he finds in the game.
For example, can the character find a hat in a cold environment and use it from their inventory at any time?
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By Sophus - 4 Years Ago
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yepkoo (9/23/2022)
I am not writing because I support this clause of the EULA.
After all, nobody likes bans.
Like everyone else, I would like to use any program freely without restrictions.
However, misinformation can cause people to suffer material and moral damage.
Businesses can write many different things in their EULA, but that doesn't mean it's legally binding. They must enforce their EULA in court and that will determine whether their terms are valid or not. In my personal opinion, if you modifiy all assets heavily and don't use them unchanged, it is your creation and you can do with it what you want. Now the question is, what level of modification is needed.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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Sophus (9/23/2022)
Businesses can write many different things in their EULA, but that doesn't mean it's legally binding. They must enforce their EULA in court and that will determine whether their terms are valid or not. In my personal opinion, if you modifiy all assets heavily and don't use them unchanged, it is your creation and you can do with it what you want. Now the question is, what level of modification is needed.
What you said is correct.
However, EULAs are not determined by court order.
It is determined by the companies and they do not need court approval for it.
This is considered legal.
The same is true for a video you produce.
The moment you produce the video, it becomes your property and you can freely determine the terms of use for it.
Of course, if there is an unfairly created clause that you think is harming you, you can file a lawsuit and request the cancellation of this clause of the EULA.
However, we are bound to abide by the terms of the EULA unless you cancel this clause by filing a lawsuit.
Usually the court opens because of misunderstandings.
However, it may be a different situation to use the EULA by intentionally giving it a wrong meaning.
This will likely result in you losing the court case.
Otherwise people would ignore tons of EULAs found on the internet.
The invalidity of restrictions is not related to the changes you make to the products you produce.
It's all about the permissions the company will give us on how much we can use their mesh.
That already creates the EULA.
If the company wants, they can sell the program for 2000 dollars and say that you can use this program for hobby purposes only.
As I said, everyone has the right to create a license on their own property.
There is one thing to note.
You are purchasing the products by accepting the EULA terms.
In conclusion, the reason why I am writing this article is to make those who are reading this and who do not have much experience in licensing consider all possibilities before making a decision.
Otherwise, anyone can do whatever they want.
Of course, users also have some rights.
If the EULA terms you agreed to when purchasing the product are changed later and this change harms users, it would be more of a crime than a license issue.
For example, requesting a fee for the extended license again from those who purchased products that were previously sold with an export license for use in games.
EULA improvements are usually made for later products or to further improve users' rights.
Otherwise, it will harm the company itself and cause serious customer loss.
Companies generally do not make EULA changes that harm users.
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