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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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Now, there is a debate as to whether Reallusion should add a subscription service for Cartoon Animator 5. I see both points of the argument. I voted that Cartoon Animator 5 should also be available as a subscription service if the perpetual license is still available. I think a fair price for the subscription service should be $9.99 a month or $69 a year. I voted for a subscription service for the following reasons:- It allows people who only need it for one project to have access to the software without paying full price
- People can test the software for longer than the free trial period
- People who can't afford to pay for a perpetual license can pay a small monthly fee to use the software
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By Sophus - 4 Years Ago
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I propose three options.
- Perpetual license, pay upfront.
- Rent-to-Own, meaning you subscribe until you pay the full perpetual price. After that your payment will be stopped and you can use your license permanently.
- Subscription, pay a lower price than the first two options, but lose your license once you stop paying.
The subscription takes your projects hostage. I will never buy a pure subscription license.
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By AutoDidact - 4 Years Ago
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A subscription service for a program that typically costs less than $300 USD depending on what content bundle you buy? Most would consider looking at the free 2D animation solutions before buying into rentware I think.
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By animagic - 4 Years Ago
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Given that a typical release cycle for a version is 3 to 4 years, I wonder if you would save much with a subscription. And with a perpetual license you at least own the software.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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Sophus (8/26/2022)
I propose three options.
- Perpetual license, pay upfront.
- Rent-to-Own, meaning you subscribe until you pay the full perpetual price. After that your payment will be stopped and you can use your license permanently.
- Subscription, pay a lower price than the first two options, but lose your license once you stop paying.
The subscription takes your projects hostage. I will never buy a pure subscription license.
I think this would be a great idea. They could use Apple Pay or Affirm for payment plans. There are several websites that are now offering Affirm as a payment option.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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animagic (8/26/2022)
Given that a typical release cycle for a version is 3 to 4 years, I wonder if you would save much with a subscription. And with a perpetual license you at least own the software.
I think for some people it would save them money if they didn't need to use Cartoon Animator daily but for certain projects. For example, if they have a project that is six weeks and the subscription price is only $9.99 a month for the pipeline version, they will pay less than $20 per license to complete the project. If they had to buy the perpetual license, without a sale, they would spend $199 per license. With multiple people working on a project, the cost can quickly add up
A subscription is better for people who can't pay the full price all at once or they infrequently use Cartoon Animator. For example, a team of people who already have licenses but for a project they need to add one person to the team. The person will be working on a single project for a brief period. It is better financially for the team to buy a subscription for the temporary team member than to buy a license.
The perpetual license is a better deal for people who frequently use Cartoon Animator.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (8/26/2022)
A subscription service for a program that typically costs less than $300 USD depending on what content bundle you buy? Most would consider looking at the free 2D animation solutions before buying into rentware I think.
I don't think most would turn to open-source software over Cartoon Animator. There isn't an open-source competitor to Cartoon Animator. The Adobe version of Cartoon Animator, Character Animator is only on the subscription model. It costs $54.95 a month yet people still pay that price. There is no perpetual license. It has more advanced features than Cartoon Animator 4 but hopefully many of these features will come in Cartoon Animator 5. For example, you can import ai files as vector files. Cartoon Animator only supports flash vector files.
Comparison of Cartoon Animator and Character Animator.
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By animagic - 4 Years Ago
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Deborah Hearne (8/27/2022)
I don't think most would turn to open-source software over Cartoon Animator. There isn't an open-source competitor to Cartoon Animator. The Adobe version of Cartoon Animator, Character Animator is only on the subscription model. It costs $54.95 a month yet people still pay that price. There is no perpetual license. It has more advanced features than Cartoon Animator 4 but hopefully many of these features will come in Cartoon Animator 5. For example, you can import ai files as vector files. Cartoon Animator only supports flash vector files. C omparison of Cartoon Animator and Character Animator.
The $54.95/month you quote is for the Adobe All Apps plan, which includes things like Photoshop, Premiere, After Effects, and many more. You can not get Character Animator on its own.
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By toonmanbill - 4 Years Ago
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I don't like subscription services, so NO to subscriptions. I would rather pay for upgrades. I like supporting the developers for bringing mayor upgrade releases and making the software better.
Thanks!
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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animagic (8/27/2022)
Deborah Hearne (8/27/2022)
I don't think most would turn to open-source software over Cartoon Animator. There isn't an open-source competitor to Cartoon Animator. The Adobe version of Cartoon Animator, Character Animator is only on the subscription model. It costs $54.95 a month yet people still pay that price. There is no perpetual license. It has more advanced features than Cartoon Animator 4 but hopefully many of these features will come in Cartoon Animator 5. For example, you can import ai files as vector files. Cartoon Animator only supports flash vector files. C omparison of Cartoon Animator and Character Animator. The $54.95/month you quote is for the Adobe All Apps plan, which includes things like Photoshop, Premiere, After Effects, and many more. You can not get Character Animator on its own.
I understand. To better clarify, if you only wanted to use Character Animator, the cost is $54.95 a month because it is not a standalone program. Getting Photoshop, After Effects, etc. is a bonus but if you only need Character Animator you will still pay $54.95 a month.
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By Peter (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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Deborah Hearne (8/30/2022)
o better clarify, if you only wanted to use Character Animator, the cost is $54.95 a month because it is not a standalone program. Getting Photoshop, After Effects, etc. is a bonus but if you only need Character Animator you will still pay $54.95 a month.
It's also important to remember that although you pay monthly, you are actually signed up for a year. You can't stop and start a subscription like you can with something like Netflix. Adobe's subscriptions are annual but paid monthly so you are committed to finding that money every month for at least a year.
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By rollasoc - 4 Years Ago
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Don't mind rent to own.
Hate subscriptions with a passion.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (8/30/2022)
Deborah Hearne (8/30/2022)
o better clarify, if you only wanted to use Character Animator, the cost is $54.95 a month because it is not a standalone program. Getting Photoshop, After Effects, etc. is a bonus but if you only need Character Animator you will still pay $54.95 a month.It's also important to remember that although you pay monthly, you are actually signed up for a year. You can't stop and start a subscription like you can with something like Netflix. Adobe's subscriptions are annual but paid monthly so you are committed to finding that money every month for at least a year.
You mention a good point. If Reallusion adds a subscription model for Cartoon Animator 5, hopefully a person is not tied to a yearly subscription and is given the monthly subscription option.
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By AutoDidact - 4 Years Ago
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Reallusion is a very smart company.
They know that there is ZERO demand from their core user base for a rentware version of CTA.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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The subscription model forces you to use the program continuously.
I rented it for 3 months because it was just a campaign for the marvelous designer.
For 3 months, I did not have the opportunity to open the program even once and my money was wasted.
Subscription when needed, cancel when not needed.
This is quite tedious.
In addition, the money you pay after you terminate your subscription is meaningless.
Because they take back everything you have. If you have produced a few valuable things and it has benefited you, perhaps you can relax a little with that.
Cartoon Animator is not an overly expensive program anyway. If you wait for special discount days such as New Year's Eve and Black Friday, you can already have the program for a lifetime for a 4-5 month subscription price.
Moreover, these programs do not come out with a new version every year.
When you buy it, you use it for 3-5 years.
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By AutoDidact - 4 Years Ago
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I rented it for 3 months because it was just a campaign for the marvelous designer. For 3 months, I did not have the opportunity to open the program even once and my money was wasted.For 3 months, I did not have the opportunity to open the program even once and my money was wasted. Well said Yepkoo. There are FREE programs that I own and want to eventually learn/utilize in depth, however due to prioritizing, I often do not even launch them for several months at a time ( Houdini Apprentice) I suppose there might be people who can be highly focused one a single program for the 30 days straight, but I suspect they are the exception not the norm.
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By toonmanbill - 4 Years Ago
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Sophus (8/26/2022)
I propose three options.
- Perpetual license, pay upfront.
- Rent-to-Own, meaning you subscribe until you pay the full perpetual price. After that your payment will be stopped and you can use your license permanently.
- Subscription, pay a lower price than the first two options, but lose your license once you stop paying.
The subscription takes your projects hostage. I will never buy a pure subscription license.
Good options as long as they don't change the Perpetual license cost to be so high by trying to force people into subscription. If they keep the pricing similar for the perpetual license, as it has been in the past, then I am good with that. It has to be fair to the loyal customers that have been with Reallusion for many years and anyone else that want to go the perpetual license route.
Subscriptions are not good. The companies get lazy because they know they are getting their monthly payments no matter what. You become a slave to the system if you want to continue using the product after you have already made a significant investment with the software, plugins, assets, etc. The companies work much harder to improve products when they know they have to earn the UPGRADE price from the user. It's a win-win situation. WE WIN because they are working hard to make the product much better and THEY WIN because we will pay the money for a nice UPGRADE with a lot of effort put into it.
That being said, I am also a big supporter of software developing companies like Reallusion, and they should get compensated for their hard work. I will always support a good company by upgrading and buying their products. It just has to be fair for everyone and not with a subscription model.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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This subscription model is used by 3D coat.
This program, which I bought from Steam with a permanent license for 70 dollars at the time, became 375 euros after it switched to the subscription method :)
Permanent license : 375 euro
Permanent license with payment of 39.7 euro for 11 months.
Regular 19.85 euro per month
I bought the program on time and since it has a 1-year update, I am currently using the latest version and it has been quite profitable for me.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (8/31/2022)
Reallusion is a very smart company.
They know that there is ZERO demand from their core user base for a rentware version of CTA.
I disagree there is ZERO demand. People pay Adobe for a subscription to Character Animator. Those same people might pay for a subscription to Cartoon Animator 5. It depends on how good Cartoon Animator 5 is compared to Character Animator. If Cartoon Animator 5 can compete with Character Animator then some of the subscribers might switch.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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toonmanbill (8/31/2022)
Sophus (8/26/2022)
I propose three options.
- Perpetual license, pay upfront.
- Rent-to-Own, meaning you subscribe until you pay the full perpetual price. After that your payment will be stopped and you can use your license permanently.
- Subscription, pay a lower price than the first two options, but lose your license once you stop paying.
The subscription takes your projects hostage. I will never buy a pure subscription license. Good options as long as they don't change the Perpetual license cost to be so high by trying to force people into subscription. If they keep the pricing similar for the perpetual license, as it has been in the past, then I am good with that. It has to be fair to the loyal customers that have been with Reallusion for many years and anyone else that want to go the perpetual license route. Subscriptions are not good. The companies get lazy because they know they are getting their monthly payments no matter what. You become a slave to the system if you want to continue using the product after you have already made a significant investment with the software, plugins, assets, etc. The companies work much harder to improve products when they know they have to earn the UPGRADE price from the user. It's a win-win situation. WE WIN because they are working hard to make the product much better and THEY WIN because we will pay the money for a nice UPGRADE with a lot of effort put into it. That being said, I am also a big supporter of software developing companies like Reallusion, and they should get compensated for their hard work. I will always support a good company by upgrading and buying their products. It just has to be fair for everyone and not with a subscription model.
I am assuming the cost for a perpetual license will go up because they increased the cost of everything else. Character Animator, iClone, and the Content Store are more expensive. I am expecting a big jump in price for Cartoon Animator 5. It will probably cost the same price as Character Creator $299. How would a subscription to Cartoon Animator 5 not be fair to everyone? If the person who is paying for the subscription gets the same features, I don't see the issue. Not everyone wants to pay $299 for software they might use for one project. Paying about $20 for 2 months of use is a fair price.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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Deborah Hearne (9/1/2022)
toonmanbill (8/31/2022)
Sophus (8/26/2022)
I propose three options.
- Perpetual license, pay upfront.
- Rent-to-Own, meaning you subscribe until you pay the full perpetual price. After that your payment will be stopped and you can use your license permanently.
- Subscription, pay a lower price than the first two options, but lose your license once you stop paying.
The subscription takes your projects hostage. I will never buy a pure subscription license. Good options as long as they don't change the Perpetual license cost to be so high by trying to force people into subscription. If they keep the pricing similar for the perpetual license, as it has been in the past, then I am good with that. It has to be fair to the loyal customers that have been with Reallusion for many years and anyone else that want to go the perpetual license route. Subscriptions are not good. The companies get lazy because they know they are getting their monthly payments no matter what. You become a slave to the system if you want to continue using the product after you have already made a significant investment with the software, plugins, assets, etc. The companies work much harder to improve products when they know they have to earn the UPGRADE price from the user. It's a win-win situation. WE WIN because they are working hard to make the product much better and THEY WIN because we will pay the money for a nice UPGRADE with a lot of effort put into it. That being said, I am also a big supporter of software developing companies like Reallusion, and they should get compensated for their hard work. I will always support a good company by upgrading and buying their products. It just has to be fair for everyone and not with a subscription model. I am assuming the cost for a perpetual license will go up because they increased the cost of everything else. Character Animator, iClone, and the Content Store are more expensive. I am expecting a big jump in price for Cartoon Animator 5. It will probably cost the same price as Character Creator $299. How would a subscription to Cartoon Animator 5 not be fair to everyone? If the person who is paying for the subscription gets the same features, I don't see the issue. Not everyone wants to pay $299 for software they might use for one project. Paying about $20 for 2 months of use is a fair price.
I need to eat my words. The cost of Cartoon Animator 5 is only $149. So, in this case, a subscription model might not make sense.
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By AutoDidact - 4 Years Ago
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Not everyone wants to pay $299 for software they might use for one project. Seriously?? who actually buys software at any price to use just one time?? except the affluent ,for whom $299 USD is not an issue.
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By Deborah Hearne - 4 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (9/1/2022)
Not everyone wants to pay $299 for software they might use for one project. Seriously?? who actually buys software at any price to use just one time?? except the affluent ,for whom $299 USD is not an issue.
I am not affluent. I have had to buy software for a single project before. It is because I needed to use the files someone sent me. I have also had to buy software for school projects.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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I'm going to use this program to create banners for websites and I've rarely been able to open the program. (Because I haven't completed my web project yet)
Of course, everyone is right in their own way, I am not against selling single-use licenses if the price of the perpetual license will not change. Perpetual license is pretty fair for me as I will be using the program for life.
There may be an affordable license sale for customers who want to rent the program for one-time use, and I support you in this regard.
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By AverageJoe - 4 Years Ago
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As long as there's an option to buy outright, I wouldn't mind if they added a subscription. I wouldn't use it, I really dislike the software as a subscription model.
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By arenbailey - 4 Years Ago
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Personally myself, I am happy to be able to own a copy, use it to its max, and have peace of mind knowing its there when I need it. I was happy that I purchased it, and no regret what so ever. personally I think the trial period wasn't long enough, but then again, I was researching into it when I knew I was ready to start my next project and did hours of research prior to buying. Now luckily I had PayPal credit. That helped me as I needed it asap, but didn't have money left over after bills. Luckily we have many options nowadays to spread the cost without affecting income for the developer if the developers haven't given us the option to spread the cost.
Considering subscriptions, I think its a great idea, if it competed price wise compared to adobes plan for example. Adobe offers a lot of options too, but the fact that I can't own a thing is upsetting. I think sub based service does offer better support, more regular updates, improvements, and not necessarily us having to wait for the next 5-6-7 version to get a brand new feature. considering the cost of CA, what is it? $190?. One copy would pay for one staff member for 19 hours at a $10 rate per hour. One copy could accommodate 19 work hours depending on what there pay rate is per country. A subscription based version would mean production would never stop. Software would never be considered complete, meaning we could use an always improving piece of software, developers are always payed, and chances are we would get what we want more often.
In conclusion an always developing software would also mean it would drive more users, but then again, would discourage many since they don't own anything anymore.
Personally for me, the fact that Mac support has been dropped, is sad. Im sure that a subscription based plan could potentially be able to pay for more staff to keep building more and more support for a bigger range os operating systems.
Companies like Antares offer both. A subscription based, but you never own the software. Or buy it but you pay a bit more at once. Interesting to see. Personally I'll stick to version 4 since there isn't a Mac version, but would consider subscribing if I knew Mac support would return. Its a thing where once you know this is the software you use full time to make a living, these questions become easier to answer. If it was just a hobby id probably think otherwise.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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This program is actually not expensive.
From what I read in the details, the upgrade cost is $99.
However, you can have the program for free by purchasing content for $200.
It is even more advantageous if you have an Elite coupon from last year.
By spending $200, you can purchase $350 worth of content.
If you do not have a coupon, you can follow the special discounts defined for you.
For a one-time purchase of $60 DA points for each member by a specified date, RL gives you a $60 DA voucher. You can buy animation with this coupon.
In return, you also get the CTA5 program for free.
The amount you will spend for all of these: $200
In return, you get products worth more than $500.
Although RL products are expensive, they can be quite profitable when you use RL discounts well.
I used the same deals on purchasing content for CC4 and iC8. Since it was Black Friday, all items were already 50% off.
I also used the DA point benefits and earned free DA points.
I bought products worth more than double the money I spent and got free entitlements to the programs.
I'm not someone who has a lot of money.
That's why I'm trying to get the maximum profit from the money I will spend.
It is necessary to constantly follow the RL opportunities.
Renting software as a subscription makes me feel like I'm wasting my money.
I don't want to go through the stress of a program that will expire.
That's why I haven't renewed the subscription of marvelous designer again.
This can only be advantageous for those who rarely use the program.
In addition, if these software are rented with a subscription system, the price of the program may increase to $ 399 instead of $ 99, and the 4-month subscription fee may be equal to the current perpetual license fee of the program.
To avoid confusion, the $60 DA coupon is only valid on Actor Core and Actor Core spends do not count towards the free CTA5.
However, by adding a little more money, you can get one of the monthly discounted animation packages from Actor Core for a very low price. You have no harm.
Instead of just spending cash, buy one $60 DA point and get a coupon.
You can spend the $60 DA points you purchased in the content store, and this spending counts for CTA5.
You can buy DA points within the remaining $140 and become profitable by purchasing discounted products with your 200 DA points.
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By jeffkirkland - 4 Years Ago
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My issue with subscription software is that I'm a freelancer and can't guarantee I'll always have the money to re-subscribe. I can save up slowly, buy once and use the software for years without an update if I need to but a subscription means I'm taking a hit to my wallet every year - and if I can't pay up, I lose access to something I've built a workflow around. No thanks.
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By Sunglass - 4 Years Ago
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Moho is one time purchase, think it is the best for 2D animation actually. In my opinion is a wrong way go to subscription
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