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By Melis (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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Dear Customers
The following thread has been moved from the iClone 8 forum to the Reallusion General forum. The reason for doing this is to keep product related discussion and sales/pricing related discussion separate.
So we would politely ask that if you wish to discuss any sales, purchase, pricing issues please do so here in the Reallusion General forum.
However, if you wish to discuss iClone 8 or Character Creator 4 and the exciting new features they contain, then please post any feedback or questions in the appropriate product forums.
Thank you for your understanding.
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By dodomedina4 - 4 Years Ago
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And what about the price???
I've never felt totally frustated and dissapointed the huge price of iClone 8 and CC4 for users who finally owned iClone 7, CC3, and 3D Exchange FOR NOTHING...
Yeah, "Free Upgrade" at Christmas. But of course, everyone has to buy to get free upgrade.
This is a completly a shame and I cannot undestand how these kinds of scamms has not reached to the court.
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By lordannoyed - 4 Years Ago
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You guys had a promo period around thanksgiving/christmas. I believe I spent enough during that period to get both iclone 8 and Character Creator 4. How do I go about accessing them?
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By reinbijlsma - 4 Years Ago
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dodomedina4 (5/12/2022)
And what about the price???
I've never felt totally frustated and dissapointed the huge price of iClone 8 and CC4 for users who finally owned iClone 7, CC3, and 3D Exchange FOR NOTHING...
Yeah, "Free Upgrade" at Christmas. But of course, everyone has to buy to get free upgrade.
This is a completly a shame and I cannot undestand how these kinds of scamms has not reached to the court.
Couldn’t agree more. Last year I’ve spend hundreds of dollars to buy iClone7, the Extension Pipeline, CC3 and more, and now I should spend hundreds of dollars again for AN UPGRADE? It’s a bloody SHAME 😡
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By Fabix84 - 4 Years Ago
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Just $100 off for those who have already purchased Character Creator 3, HeadShot and Iclone 7 is a pittance and a shame.
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By thebiz.movies - 4 Years Ago
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After 5 years of free upgrades to IC7 I'm ready to pay for the upgrade. It is pricey but its also not a rental/subscription and based on past history (5 years of upgrading the previous version) I'm expecting a lot of usage. Here's hoping 8 is as stable and effective as 7!
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By SapphireBlu - 4 Years Ago
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you Cant even added to Motion Director you have o buy the packs for $99 each
and the Packs and the same as The Motion IPuppet Moves or Mixed Moves
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By pgibouin - 4 Years Ago
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The upgrade price for customers is exactly the same if you already have 3DXchange , Curve Editor PlugIn, and different other optionnal plugins for iClone 7. This is totally unfair.
As a loyal customer since iClone 4, I refuse to pay $600 for iClone 8 and CC 4 which are * MINORS * enhancements of iClone7 and CC3 with 3DXchange 7 and Curve Editor. Those new versions have nothing really new if you already have full suite of iClone 7 and CC3 plus optionnal plugins.
Subscription is not viable for home users, Reallusion couldn’t propose this option with such a large hobbysts users base.
Bybye Reallusion, better wait for iClone 9 and CC5 from my side … wich will bring really new features to iClone 7 users.
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By 3DPiXL - 4 Years Ago
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I'm more than happy with the upgrade prices and I've been using Reallusion software since It's Me program so I have spend a lot of money with them.
It def has moved on from just a home hobby app, it's an amazing system that follows many commercial workflows. If the system is too expensive for you then maybe you no longer fit in to Reallusion's customer demographic. The features have been moving to cater towards Indie's and studios for a while also keeping it easy enough for casual hobbyists like myself. Many major features have been added to CC3 & IC7 for no charge so I think they deserve a bit of coin for the ew versions. Just my 2 cents.
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By pgibouin - 4 Years Ago
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No, iClone and CC are not full autonomous tools. You can not modelate and rig inside them. They are still hobbyst users target.
Pro users don’t build full commercial animation movies with just iClone and CC. They use Maxon or Autodesk solutions.
$600 upgrade price is insane for regular iClone 7 and CC3 + 3DXchange + Curve Editor. There is no justification with so little improvements.
I’m pretty sure this commercial launch will be a failure for existing users base. We will see better upgrade offers in a few weeks or months when Reallusion will see there are nobody upgrading at this price.
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By 3DPiXL - 4 Years Ago
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"Pro users don’t build full commercial animation movies with just iClone and CC" - Nope but Reallusion products certainly help with concepting and quick animation. You dont need Autodesk solutions to achieve amazing results. Any free system like Blender, unreal or Unity will help with polish, it comes down to user ability.
iClone has never said it was a fully rigging/sculpting/material package nor would I expect them to be. But for animation and character creation they are amazing. They both cut down my design time compared to the above for easy character scoping. Easy enough to then move along to other apps to keep working. Besides under $1000 every 7 or so years to upgrade software is cheap. It's almost $1000 here in AU with the currency conversion.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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I agree that the programs are expensive. In fact, I wrote in many messages that the prices were exorbitant at the time of the first campaign.
However, when I thought about it later, I realized that I was wrong here. Because even though I bought the programs 1 year ago, these programs were updated with the same version for free, instead of being sold to users as a new version by making a few additions for 5 years.
Instead of updating after 5 years, RL could add 1-2 features per year and charge a $300 upgrade fee. You could have paid more in total in 5 years. Moreover, it gave these programs for free in exchange for content purchase.
I bought a simple video editing program like Movavi studio just 6 months later, for almost full price even though the price was low. There was absolutely no difference other than 3-5 silly updates.
With iC8, I think RL is off to a good start for professional animation production, and the future of programs looks pretty bright.
You can make an animation with Maya, but you can do the same animation much easier with iClone.
In short, there is no reason why professional companies should not use this program.
Yes, the prices are still too expensive for me, but I think the RL team deserves it because they produced these programs that make our job so easy.
I bought the programs for commercial use. But if hobbyists spent thousands of dollars on this system before, it was for their own hobby needs. In other words, it is not necessary to use it commercially, as a result, they got the entertainment they wanted and benefited from it.
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By pgibouin - 4 Years Ago
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yepkoo (5/13/2022)
With iC8, I think RL is off to a good start for professional animation production, and the future of programs looks pretty bright.
You can make an animation with Maya, but you can do the same animation much easier with iClone.
In short, there is no reason why professional companies should not use this program.
Yes, the prices are still too expensive for me, but I think the RL team deserves it because they produced these programs that make our job so easy.
Physical engine in iClone is far away of what you can do with Cinema4D for example (and Espresso). A lot of advertisings on TV are created with Cinema4D or Maya. Here in Europe, iClone is not the first choice for creating commercial animations, essentially because of its limitations. Many things available in Cinema4D or Maya are not available inside iClone and as someone said, iClone is just an animation program, not a modeling, sculpting or rigging software. You will need another software like Maya, Modo, 3DSMax, Blender to do a big part of the job done.
Quadripeds creatures animations are very poor inside iClone and physical engine very limited.
This is why I talk about "hobbyists" target who can not invest money, time and complex skills into Autodesk or Maxon products. I would be ok to pay $300 for the upgrade to IC8 and CC4, I have already invested 2 or 3 years ago into Curve Edit PlugIn, Popcorn Particles, 3DXChange 7, I don't understand why I should pay the same price than the guy who just bought iClone for $100 or $150 3 years ago.
This is a major failure of the marketing team of Reallusion. I hope they will change their mind soon because IC8 and CC4 may be ignored by a lot of actual users of IC7 and CC3.
There is a sign: there are actually much less messages about IC8 and CC4 on the forum than IC7 and CC3 than when they had bee released a few years ago. It Seems people are not interested for this price.
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By Fabix84 - 4 Years Ago
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I will consider the upgrade when it costs $300/$350. Until then bye bye Reallusion.
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By jose_55 - 4 Years Ago
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I did as well and I don't see any free update information or serial numbers in my account. I am going to open a support ticket and see if they reply.
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By AutoDidact - 4 Years Ago
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No, iClone and CC are not full autonomous tools. You can not modelate and rig inside them. They are still hobbyst users target. Pro users don’t build full commercial animation movies with just iClone and CC. They use Maxon or Autodesk solutions.Pro users don’t build full commercial animation movies with just iClone and CC. They use Maxon or Autodesk solutions. Seriously ??? …..Autodesk definitely But where are are the Maxon C4D feature films compared to Blender? $600 upgrade price is insane for regular iClone 7 and CC3 + 3DXchange + Curve Editor. There is no justification with so little improvements. Maxon C4D cost $149 per month or $3500 for a perpetual license with no upgrade price when the new version comes out. and you have to buy an additional monthly Xparticles sub from insydium to replace the decrepid particle system of C4D if you want to do any VFX that are not embarrassing. My free Blender with about $300 USD of Pro add-ons (with free upgrades for life) Hard-ops,Boxcutter, Decal Machine,Flip fluids,Physical starlight& Atmosphere, Crushes C4D by every measure particularly in the area of character animation and VFX. as we have a unified Dynamics system and the Blender Geo-nodes system has already surpassed mograph iClone is not the first choice for creating commercial animations, essentially because of its limitations. Neither is C4D ,unless you are just spinning letters & logos. This newest version of Iclone and CC4 have some long over due features for the core user base who does not wish to mix with other eco systems so they will pay of the upgrade. I personal will be staying with version 7 and the free Blender pipeline tool as Blender has everything I can NOT get from Iclone or Maxon C4D at a much cheaper price.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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CC and iC are not 3D modeling programs anyway. One produces characters and the other produces animation. So their purposes are completely different.
I don't need to see these programs as competitors.
RL programs can be used together with Maya, Blender, Unreal Engine and a ton of other programs.
Why should I try harder when there are conveniences?
You think you have to make a choice.
My opinion is very different, I try to take advantage of the ease of each program.
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By Marty3DGuru - 4 Years Ago
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Listen. I was a bit negative the other day, but I have decided to see the bigger picture.
Firstly, my initial feelings were a little selfish. Why?
I compared my upgrade price to a new user, some kind of loyalty thing. I was also a little miffed at now having to pay an extra 20% V.A.T as well which bumped things up.
However, the price bundle is $900 without any discount. I failed to really see the bigger picture of a $300 discount. It's the classic early bird Reallusion discount which is enabling new users to get on board also with a big discount ,we as older users get another extra $100 off on top.
Sure as an existing user I might feel entitled to a bit more off, but I shouldn't let the fact that newer users can get onboard also for $700, spoil my overall mood. I think that is what I did, and that was a little self absorbed but understandable.
This at the end of the day is a perpetual license and just the start of the IC8 and CC4 life cycle remember. I have had many updates along the way since 2018 all for free, and some updates were terrific at that.
I made my peace and now I have upgraded. I can see both sides of the argument for sure, but the discount is there for the taking. I think it seems more costly because no longer is there a pipeline or 3Dxchange separation, you are essentially buying the full export version for all.
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By ApplebiteMedia - 4 Years Ago
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Well, I love the software and love that it is not rentware.... however I do not love that the discount for an upgrade is so low off the regular new license. Hell, I spent over 5 k at reallusion last year collecting all the software, plug-ins and some content..... I spent enough for the free CC4 upgrade... that one I could afford... I spent more on content than the upgrade would have cost. I purchased curve editor, 3d exchange, all of it but the mocap plugins for full body.... I have the face and that LEAP thing....
I went balls out... LOL
Where I do expect Reallusion to make money off their product... what they are asking for the upgrade is IMO, greedy. With a few lines of code and they can tell who owns what and make custom price adjustments based on a persons purchases of the plugins that were absorbed into these programs. 100.00 off is really not a great upgrade price.... I paid 499.00 (on sale) for vegas video... my upgrade was 285.00. Also no rentware.
After seeing the improvements in CC4, I am dying to see the improvements in IC8 but at 499.00, it will unfortunately have to wait. And since CC4 is not compatible with IC7 (that I have seen, cannot export to it)... it makes CC4 pretty much useless to me unless I bring it into Blender. Still learning blender... cannot animate in it yet LOL. IMO, Blenders Cycles is far superior than CC3/CC4 or IC7's rendering.
Personally, for what I am doing with these programs.... CC3 and IC7 are more than enough... but I like the latest/greatest so I will eventually upgrade... Hopefully it will go on sale LMAO! I think Reallusion would make more by lowering the price at least another 100.00 even 150. Make the upgrade 350.00. I think more people would be more willing to make that purchase more-so than what it is now.. at least they could make the purchase faster. It's not like there is a lot of competition out there... and the ones that are, are outrageously priced. A great product like this at a lower price would gain bulk sales that could surpass lower sales at a higher price. Old school business... it worked. ;) LOL
Anyway... upgrade, don't upgrade... it's really all up to us what we want to do. For me, as I said, I will eventually. And in the meantime I'll play with the new CC4 that I cannot really do anything with and use CC3 and IC7 for anything I have been working on. Thanks for the tease Reallusion LMAO!!!
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By LarryPlane - 4 Years Ago
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I agree with the majority here; 350 is the optimal upgrade price.
Still vat on top of that, but it would be doable for me to buy at that price.
599 is just not affordable for a product like this that needs so many additional purchases to get the best from it.
Like most others here, I'll try the free demo, but that's it for the moment.
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By ian_11 - 4 Years Ago
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Fabix84 (5/13/2022)
Just $100 off for those who have already purchased Character Creator 3, HeadShot and Iclone 7 is a pittance and a shame.
I totally agree!
When someone points out something the statement "no one is forcing you to upgrade" is a dumb argument as a loyal user only tells RL their thoughts. I agree this should be half price for the upgrade I will not be upgrading at this price level. There is not enough new features to make it worthwhile at $599.00. BTW I upgraded from clone 6 to 7 I think RL is not a "bargain", it's a rip-off of loyal customers.
Quote from ApplebiteMedia:
"" price should have been much lower than a 'New License". It's what? 50.00/100.00? Especially if you have all the add-ons that were absorbed into CC4/IC8. "
RL you have really let your loyal customers down I have paid over $3500.00 on your products very disappointing.
At RL I hope you decide to reward loyal RL users with a fair price this is so sad.
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By ian_11 - 4 Years Ago
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pgibouin (5/13/2022)
The upgrade price for customers is exactly the same if you already have 3DXchange , Curve Editor PlugIn, and different other optionnal plugins for iClone 7. This is totally unfair.
As a loyal customer since iClone 4, I refuse to pay $600 for iClone 8 and CC 4 which are * MINORS * enhancements of iClone7 and CC3 with 3DXchange 7 and Curve Editor. Those new versions have nothing really new if you already have full suite of iClone 7 and CC3 plus optionnal plugins.
Subscription is not viable for home users, Reallusion couldn’t propose this option with such a large hobbysts users base.
Bybye Reallusion, better wait for iClone 9 and CC5 from my side … wich will bring really new features to iClone 7 users.
Well said I am so sad how we are being treated :((
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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We know that RL has many campaigns.
Especially at the end of the year, there are big campaigns and coupons.
I think you can buy it for half price maybe a little less, or RL may offer you discounted prices at a later time.
I think a little patience can be helpful.
We know that the majority do not pay full price for the programs.
Frankly, the best thing to do in this situation is to wait for a special offer or year-end campaigns.
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By ian_11 - 4 Years Ago
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It should not be like this I will not buy anything else until RL address this bye bye RL :(
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By Catpickle! - 4 Years Ago
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Im debating the move to ic8 but will only do so when it is neccesary - what is Motion Director? Is this where you have control with hotkeys and game controller?
What do you mean we have to buy motion packs? what about all the ones I bought and the ones I can import? Are you not able to use any motons? Or is MD only usable with specially bought motions?
Thanks
Barry
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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What you said is correct.
I hope RL implements an update that will allow us to use our custom animations here.
Because when the feature is integrated into new packages that will be constantly sold, it has no value.
Honestly, I was really surprised that this happened.
At least we should be able to customize only the action parts.
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By mrl - 4 Years Ago
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Catpickle! (5/15/2022)
what is Motion Director? Is this where you have control with hotkeys and game controller?
What do you mean we have to buy motion packs? what about all the ones I bought and the ones I can import? Are you not able to use any motons? Or is MD only usable with specially bought motions?
It does that and much more. It could be an incredibly useful tool, but as I understand it, it WILL NOT work with all of the motions you already possess, and will only work with new MD motion packs (which look to be priced at $99 each).
That's my understanding, and if true, it makes the MD of very limited use for me, as I'm not going to re-buy my entire animation library just to use the feature.
If my presumption that we will not be able to use our own motions with Motion Director is incorrect, someone please let us know.
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By garylearntech - 4 Years Ago
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Melis (RL) (5/12/2022)
Dear Customers
The following thread has been moved from the iClone 8 forum to the Reallusion General forum. The reason for doing this is to keep product related discussion and sales/pricing related discussion separate.
So we would politely ask that if you wish to discuss any sales, purchase, pricing issues please do so here in the Reallusion General forum.
However, if you wish to discuss iClone 8 or Character Creator 4 and the exciting new features they contain, then please post any feedback or questions in the appropriate product forums.
Thank you for your understanding.
It would be really helpful if you and your fellow moderators would be equally proactive in moving iClone and CC-specific posts back into the relevant forums - it's not as if they don't exist. Far too many posts are dropped here in General.
In your own words: thank you for your understanding! :-)
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By Jean-Sé - 4 Years Ago
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mrl (5/15/2022)
That's my understanding, and if true, it makes the MD of very limited use for me, as I'm not going to re-buy my entire animation library just to use the feature.
If my presumption that we will not be able to use our own motions with Motion Director is incorrect, someone please let us know.
My understanding is that users should be able to extend it in the future :  |
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By cepheistudios - 4 Years Ago
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I have had CC3 for almost a full year and I upgraded to CC4; it was a HUGE improvement!!! OMG!!! I was so glad I purchased enough content in 2021 to get the 'free' upgrade. I LOVE the animation tools that come built right in. It's just a MASSIVE improvement over CC3. Now, having sampled it, I'm going to get IC8. I DON'T own IC7, so this will be an all new purchase for me - but it's my understanding that my CC3 models (now working in CC4) should work in IC8. I do want to weigh in on this topic once again (because I've weighed in on it before). I do agree that IC8 has a bit of a steep price, but if the Motion Director stuff is as easy to use as they say AND animations can be done in Iray, then I'm willing to drop the cash. While I do agree it isn't a complete tool (to get the most out of it for professional work you need a couple of other tools - most pros I work with use Blender, Maya, Unreal, Substance Painter and Marvelous Designer) it does appear to have unmatched ease for creating character animations. I would LIKE to export those to UE5 - thereby marrying the animating brilliance of IC8 with UE5's environments and polygon handling tools - but even if I can't do that (I haven't seen anything that suggests that process will be perfectly smooth - and before anyone mentions it my team and I HAVE used the built in export CC3 to UE tool, but it wasn't smooth at all; my animator ended up exporting to Blender, then importing the character models from Blender to UE and everything worked fine) I think it's worth the price. $500 for IC8. Another $300 for the motion packs I want - less all of my member discounts (which are substantial) is A LOT - but I don't think it's unwarranted. And if Motion Director as all it's cracked up to be then I believe Reallusion can make an argument for having some of the best animation software out there. The reason for the high entry price is the extreme ease of use. Is Blender a more complete tool? Absolutely. But, for people without the time to learn Blender, IC8 is a good fill in. And PLEASE don't anyone reply back to me with how easy Blender is to learn. I tried it and it was anything but intuitive for a beginner. For those beginners out there who picked up Blender quickly - we are not all created equal when it comes to learning graphics programs (and I am at the very BOTTOM of that spectrum). And I don't have time to watch a TON of Youtube videos. Reallusion makes intuitive software that's easy to work with for beginners. I also believe that even WITHOUT a ton of supplementary programs, you can go pretty far with the Reallusion suite. The one caveat I have, which is what kept from buying IC7 last year, is they lack the environments of UE and Unity - but those engines are huge. UE has a ton of money behind it. Anyway, those are my thoughts.
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By Peter (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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garylearntech (5/15/2022)
It would be really helpful if you and your fellow moderators would be equally proactive in moving iClone and CC-specific posts back into the relevant forums - it's not as if they don't exist. Far too many posts are dropped here in General
Posts are moved at regular intervals but at this busy time it may be taking a little longer than normal.
However, I think a better question to ask is why do so many people post product related questions in a forum clearly marked as non-product related. :Whistling:
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By mrl - 4 Years Ago
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Jean-Sé (5/15/2022)
My understanding is that users should be able to extend it in the future :
Fantastic! Hopefully sooner rather than later. 🤞
Thank you!
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By garylearntech - 4 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (5/15/2022)
garylearntech (5/15/2022)
It would be really helpful if you and your fellow moderators would be equally proactive in moving iClone and CC-specific posts back into the relevant forums - it's not as if they don't exist. Far too many posts are dropped here in General
Posts are moved at regular intervals but at this busy time it may be taking a little longer than normal.
Perhaps the reason I perceived the problem is that I follow specific forums via an RSS feed reader - rather than merely visiting the forums site and manually browsing. Perhaps because of that, I'm "seeing them" before you move them? But then, there's at least one repeat offender that has never taken the hint if you have been moving all of her posts - going back a long, long time.
However, I think a better question to ask is why do so many people post product related questions in a forum clearly marked as non-product related. :Whistling:
Perhaps the million dollar question! And I'd surely run the risk of suspension or even being banned if I offered some of my theories here in public!! :exclamation::ermm::exclamationmark:
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By towlie2110 - 4 Years Ago
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This is the end of my time as a reallusion customer. I don't think they care. I've had horrible experiences with their customer support over buying things I didn't know I didn't need (1200 Xsens live link profile....fml)
And then they do this? Only 100$ off is absurd and disrespectful. The fact that I'm even taking the time to type this to tell you should speak volumes
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By ian_11 - 4 Years Ago
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Just wait until a sale I am sad RL has done this dumb pricing $100.00 off is insulating and very sad. Just means many people will leave RL or wait. Makes more sense for RL to sell at a lower price and have more sales and not lose their Customers. I am sure their sales will not be as good as it was with iClone 7 for sure.
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By planetstardragon - 4 Years Ago
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The problem isn't the price, it's actually much deeper than that, the price is actually relative considering 3DX isn't around anymore and now partly integrated into the software, and the curve editor is built in, so it's actually a bundle of products - or rather they gave up a few streams of revenue by combining multiple software's into 2, sadly the marketing department didn't effectively convey that point and contributed to this pr disaster....but I'm determined to sit this out though because trying to help never worked out well for me and there is no polite way to explain it. lol
"never give a sword to someone that can't dance" - Confucius.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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Everyone here has spent a lot of money before. However, when you compare the improvements made by the RL team in new programs, you may think that this payment will not be that exaggerated.
Even if thousands of dollars have been spent, the fees paid for the main programs are clear.
You can still use anything else you bought.(Contents, Plugins, Profiles, etc.)
I tried the motion features of the program yesterday.
I followed all the tutorials on the RL youtube page.
I can easily say that making animations with this program has become much easier now. It would not be wrong to say that there is a huge difference between iC7 and iC8 for creating animation.
The Motion Director part is already great.
However, there is not only MD among its features.
It has multiple excellent tools for making animations.
There is such an excellent feature as Motion Direction Control.
You can easily create animations using ready-made or your own animations.
With the Reach Target feature, you can make your interactive animations smooth.
It's easy to create crowd scenes.
I love the Animation Layer part. I would never have guessed it would be this good. For example, while playing any animation, you can turn your head, wave and continue on your way.
With the Path feature, you can create motion in the direction you want.
Apart from that, you can create automatic movement in a region you specify.
I haven't fully figured out the Footstep & Handprint part yet, I need to work on it a little more.
I couldn't even examine only 5% of the program's features.
But even that was enough for me.
The RL team really did an excellent job.
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By planetstardragon - 4 Years Ago
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Yepkoo, if you want to earn more points with RL, make tutorials and sell lots of content. ;)
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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My goal is not to earn points.
I agree that the prices are expensive. But since everyone focuses on the price, the new features of the programs are left in the background a bit.
I am a UE user and I am making a one minute video using iC8+ UE.
I'll post it with the tutorial video when it's finished.
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By planetstardragon - 4 Years Ago
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I get it, 13 years here, I was cheering iclone on when it looked like leisure suits Larry on dos lol - heck, i'm the one that helped make the demand for tutorials a big deal heheh!! ahh the good old days! the marketing department dropped the ball, let them fix it, the rest of the community will in fact appreciate your awesome art and techniques you share.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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Actually, I couldn't start these works completely because I couldn't find the time.
I have a system like (WordPress) which is about to end right now. It's all my own system.
As soon as I complete this, I will create videos for my game project and hobby.
Then I will share a lot of content here.
I don't understand why I'm wasting my time on the forum site right now :D
I guess it's become a habit :)
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By planetstardragon - 4 Years Ago
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nah, not wasting time - it's a balance between caring about your fellow artist concerns and helping inspire the company to make innovative products and survive. trust me, it's a hard path to walk. Sharing inspiration through your work is the most effective way to avoid feeling unappreciated and staying productive in the long run. :)
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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I think you are right. This explanation was helpful for me. thanks
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By adamgflynn - 4 Years Ago
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I was sent and advertisment email on dec 9th that stated I could get iclone 8 and cc4 for $399 since I was a 3dexchange user.
I ended up going ahead and making a bunch of purchase for things I kind of wanted. All of the stuff I really wanted I purchased throughout the year.
They're telling me I misunderstood the email. If I did, then it's an extremely deceptive email.
They gave me the impression I was getting a special price since I was a 3dexchange user and only had to spend $399 to get both.
Sp there was no special price for 3dexchange free upgrade program?
umm...not happy
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By Peter (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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adamgflynn (5/18/2022)
I was sent and advertisment email on dec 9th that stated I could get iclone 8 and cc4 for $399 since I was a 3dexchange user.
I ended up going ahead and making a bunch of purchase for things I kind of wanted. All of the stuff I really wanted I purchased throughout the year.
They're telling me I misunderstood the email. If I did, then it's an extremely deceptive email.
They gave me the impression I was getting a special price since I was a 3dexchange user and only had to spend $399 to get both.
Sp there was no special price for 3dexchange free upgrade program?
umm...not happy
Hi...
Do you still have the email? If so can you post the contents of it here.
It sounds like a misunderstanding of the wording because there certainly wasn't an offer to get both iClone 8 and CC4 for $399 at any point in the two promotions we ran.
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By adamgflynn - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks for your response. Here is the offer. $399 seems really clear to me. thanks for your consideration.
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By Jaydead - 4 Years Ago
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I'll be waiting for a better discount and keep using CC3 & IC7 in the meantime. Cheers.
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By Catpickle! - 4 Years Ago
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Sounds similar to the situation I used to get when buying music albums having already owned a lot of the singles...
I do feel the angst to buy, the FOMO urge but on playing with the trial I dont see enough for my needs - and thats what we have to determine, if it suits your needs.
Id like to see a comparison video of animating with ic7 v ic8 - I bought a ton of motion capture animations so would be interesting to see.
I did a side by side check of the visuals with the same project from ic7 in both and can see a noticeable improvement, more realistic tones for one.
I am inclined to sit this one out and wait for IC9
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By sungod - 4 Years Ago
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@adamgflynn
Its Over 399$ and above
One had to go to check the offers via hyperlink in the email
So its not exact 399$
They were giving CC4 with less amount spent and IC8 with more.
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By ian_11 - 4 Years Ago
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This is a rip-off There is no special upgrade for the existing users as I said earlier there's no way on earth will buy the new iClobe 4 and CC4. Very bad marketing for RL they may lose many customers over this including me. Oh well! :((
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By sungod - 4 Years Ago
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ian_11 (5/19/2022)
This is a rip-off There is no special upgrade for the existing users as I said earlier there's no way on earth will buy the new iClobe 4 and CC4. Very bad marketing for RL they may lose many customers over this including me. Oh well! :((
The special thing which they did was to give both these free if you buy enough content.
And for many of us with content to buy it was very good offer.
On top of that they had two great scan reality Avatar free and Many Motion Pack deals which reduced the price to 75 percentage off.
For some others who don't want content etc this offer wasn't attractive but for other it was one of coolest thing.
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By Peter (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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adamgflynn (5/19/2022)
Thanks for your response. Here is the offer. $399 seems really clear to me. thanks for your consideration.
Thanks for posting the email.
That particular email caused a lot of misunderstanding at the time (December 2021) which led us to send out a further email and explain the misunderstanding in the thread below.
https://forum.reallusion.com/501639/RL-pulling-my-posts-on-marketing-commentary?PageIndex=3
What the email is saying is that "We invite you to join the WIP Presales Offer (accumulated order value over $399 and above". This meant you needed to spend $399 and above to take part in the WIP Presale Offer with $399 being the starting point (to get CC4 free). It was not saying you would get both iClone 8 and CC4 free for $399+.
We are sorry for the confusion caused, but as I mentioned we did clarify this immediately after the email was sent out here on the forum and in a second email which was sent out.
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By similarly - 4 Years Ago
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Reallusion is a great company with great people, and they make great products.
But I won't be buying IC8 and CC4. It's just too expensive for me to justify the cost just for a hobby. It's SO much more expensive than the last upgrade. I'm also disappointed that having bought 3dxchange, I get no additional discount, even though 3dxchange was expensive and its features are now integrated into the new software. In the long run, it's just too expensive.
I didn't participate in the "buy a bunch of stuff, and get IC8 and CC4 ..." because I already have thousands of dollars in content that I've bought over many years, since the original Crazy Talk Animator (v1).
The bad part for reallusion is that this has kind of soured my feelings. Not only will I not be buying IC8 and CC4, I probably won't buy any more content. If I have no future with reallusion software, I don't see the point of wasting more money on content.
It sounds like the devs have done an outstanding job. It's just not a tool for hobbyists anymore.
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By adamgflynn - 4 Years Ago
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I checked my emails and was not sent any follow up email about a Wrong price.
Nor would I have expected to look on the forum to see a correction. the price seemed appropriate.
The money that I spent on to hit the min of $399 was really meant for iclone 8 and cc4.
Reallusion made a mistake and I hope they will be willing to work with me on this. I've spent 1k + on content last year alone. I don't think I can see myself spending any more money untill this is resolved appropriately.
Would you please put me in contact with the right people? thanks in advance.
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By Peter (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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adamgflynn (5/19/2022)
I checked my emails and was not sent any follow up email about a Wrong price.
Nor would I have expected to look on the forum to see a correction. the price seemed appropriate.
The money that I spent on to hit the min of $399 was really meant for iclone 8 and cc4.
Reallusion made a mistake and I hope they will be willing to work with me on this. I've spent 1k + on content last year alone. I don't think I can see myself spending any more money untill this is resolved appropriately.
Would you please put me in contact with the right people? thanks in advance.
There wasn't a second email to correct the wrong price because there wasn't a wrong price. The second email was just worded differently to be clearer in its meaning.
However, if you would like to contact Customer Support about this please use the link below. However, I reiterate there was never an offer that meant spending $399 would get you both iClone 8 and CC4 free. Support will be able to confirm this for you.
https://www.reallusion.com/CustomerSupport/UserEx/QForm.html
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By adamgflynn - 4 Years Ago
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I don't agree, I honestly feel I was taken. I guess I didn't spend enough with you all last year....i'm out
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By sungod - 4 Years Ago
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Honestly it was never confusing for me. People talk about that email but even once clicking on that link and reading the offer details it was crystal clear. (Email was always clear for me ).
One will get CC4 for particular amount spent.
One will get Both for particular amount spent.
For 3dexhange users extra pack.
(Rightfully added later after hearing concerns)
Also it's Ancient History now.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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similarly (5/19/2022)
Not only will I not be buying IC8 and CC4, I probably won't buy any more content. If I have no future with reallusion software, I don't see the point of wasting more money on content.
.
I've already stopped content shopping.
I don't even buy weekly discounted products anymore.
Motion support of iC8 with CA4 has been discontinued, I no longer need to buy anything related to Cartoon Animator.
After transferring the characters to Unreal Engine, a disastrous image is created and I no longer have to spend any money on CC4. Now all I need is to create animations with iClone 8.
All the expenses (Hair, Clothes, etc.) I have made so far have been garbage.
At least I'll be safe from spending too much money from now on.
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By Peter (RL) - 4 Years Ago
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yepkoo (5/20/2022)
After transferring the characters to Unreal Engine, a disastrous image is created and I no longer have to spend any money on CC4. Now all I need is to create animations with iClone 8.
All the expenses (Hair, Clothes, etc.) I have made so far have been garbage.
Hi Yepkoo
If the results you are getting in Unreal are bad then this is certainly not normal. You only have to look at the work done by power users like Bassline and others to know the Pipeline works from CC4 to Unreal. If you haven't already, I would advise spending some time reviewing Bassline's two threads for UE4 and UE5 in the Unreal forum. I'm sure then you will soon get better results.
https://forum.reallusion.com/3D-Pipelines/Unreal-45
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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I looked at Peter Bassline's threads.
However, I could not see any video or post with a quality close to the CC image transferred from CC to UE.
Not only Bassline's topics, I've looked at dozens of videos on youtube and zero results.
Apart from that, show a live video of Hair physics working in Unreal Engine the same way it works in iClone.
You can also test this on your own computer.
When you search the forum, you can see that many people have problems especially for hair.
It is true that some hairs are not a problem, but most of them are disastrous, especially parted hair.
I add tears with Skingen, but in Unreal Engine nothing appears as if I didn't add any.
When I import the characters into Blender with the Blender plugin, it looks perfect. But the same cannot be said for Unreal Engine.
Even actor core characters look better when you export the character to UE5 than the characters you import to UE5.
However, if you do not accept them, it seems that there will be no solution.
Frankly, there is no video about it even on your own youtube channel.
If you want to help you can post a tutorial video showing the CC4 character being realistically transferred to the UE.
I can see where I made a mistake and correct it.
I would really appreciate if there is a tutorial video showing the character transferring to UE5 in a texture close to CC.
I would have thought it was due to UE5 but metahuman characters look just as good as the CC character.
I was very hopeful that I would get out of this situation when CC4 came out.
But even CC3 and UE4 gave better results than that.
I changed the resolution of the textures from Skingen to 4096 but it didn't help.
I'm not saying it should be exactly the same. Even something close to that would have sufficed.
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By yepkoo - 4 Years Ago
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By the way, I would like to point out that I certainly do not disparage these programs.
CC4 and iC8 are really excellent software.
The RL team produces successful programs.
I'm happy to have the iC8.
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By ian_11 - 4 Years Ago
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I think RL knows it is all about the price to existing customers we do love the software it just I think RL could have done more for their loyal customers
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By Ankyn - 4 Years Ago
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I completely agree.
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By oonabe - 4 Years Ago
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After trying the CC4 demo and the experience that has been purchasing Reallusion software I have to say that I will leave this echosystem too due to the selling practices of this company.
The first time I knew about CC3 and iClone 7 I was excited to see such a helping tool for character creation and animation, so I tried the software, liked it, found out it had a fair price and decided to buy it. But then the bad news started coming one after another, since Reallusion's echosystem wasn't and still isn't good enough as to be the only software you can use to create decent looking animations I tried to export my work to external programs like Blender and Unreal, just to find out I had to pay for another piece of software called 3dxchange to be able to export and import my models and animations. It was annoying to have to pay for a full software when I was only interested in a couple of features but those features were crucial for my workflow so I decided to purchase it anyways.
Once I invested in that and got my workflow running I decided to invest more money on additional features, like the Headshot plugin, SkinGen, the curve editor, iRay renderer, hair builder... and was excited about the announcement of the new features when CC4 and iClone 8 were announced, just to see that the upgrade would cost me 2 to 4 times as much money as I paid for the full software. I have never seen that an upgrade costs more than the original software, and even less 2 to 4 times that money. That's why they're called upgrades, because they add new features but customers have already paid for most of what the new version can do by purchasing the full software prior to the upgrade.
This is no different with CC4 and iClone 8, the new features might be great, but they're still additional features, not a new full software, and therefore shouldn't cost so much money. One of the given reasons for the price increasement was that 3dxchange and curve editor were now part of CC4 and iClone 8 when they were a separate purchase prior to the update, but what if you already paid for 3dxchange and the curve editor? why should we pay twice for the same features? I was hoping for a special offer for those customers like me, who already paid a good amount of money for them but this never happened.
So I was at least hoping for an interesting offfer even when it's unfair to ask customers who already paid for 3dxchange and the curve editor to pay the same as someone who hadn't based on the excuse that the upgrade is more expensive partly because of that exact reason. But the offers have been completely uninteresting for many of us loyal customers. We had to spend an very big sum of money on uninteresting content and in a very short time frame to get a "free" upgrade, there was never an offer for what we really wanted a discount, which is the upgrade itself and not some additional content or points to get that content in which many of us aren't interested at all.
And the worst of it is not only the price for the update itself and the lack of customer care from Reallusion towards their loyal customers, the worst thing is that this sets a precedent that makes many of us to distrust your company and not want to invest a single penny more in your business, because we cannot know what will happen if we decide to pay again for this update and get a similar situation when CC5 and iClone 9 are a thing, or if there is a basic missing feature in these new updates that will require another additional purchase that will become obsolete again with some new marketing tactic in the future.
And even after this I decided to download the CC4 demo and see how the new features are and see for myself if they're worth the money, but fortunately for my wallet I've found out they're not. They're nice additions but not worth the money you're asking for the upgrade, there are still missing features in your software and old problems that hasn't been solved. The prices are completely wrong and specially to those who had already paid for some of the "new" features by purchasing 3dxchange and the curve editor in the past.
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