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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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Alright so let's get straight to the point.
DirectX 11 is out along with the new NVIDIA and ATI cards which both support hardware tessellation. What does that mean?
Well you remember how in Zbrush you'd subdevide your model so you could get SUPER detail on it but then you had to bring it back down because the engine can't handle too many polygons?... well NO MORE will you have to do this because the new cards can calculate the models and add LOTS of detail to them as the camera gets closer... Now I konw talk is cheap, so here are some videos.
Water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfrSaIY0YQA&feature=player_embedded
Hair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrb8PSpkhkQ&feature=player_embedded
An example of the EVGA card with some demos of the graphics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzjNiDr05Fk
A ton of other games using this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pBLtZUJ9OA&feature=player_embedded
Now I know it doesn't look EXACTLY like films look but it is at least DEFIANTLY a step in the right direction.
Ambient Occlusion is also used as well.
"alright" you say, "That looks pretty good, but not all of us have tons of money to shell out for something like that."
Ok I thought the same thing... until I found one of these cards for around 380 dollars which I think is pretty good for the quality. I think the top price is around 499 with an average of about 400-450. (I thought these things would be like 600)
Now I know that some of you could argue that not everyone has these and if Reallusion did this, it'd be ignoring others... no, not really.
Take a look at Unigine.
http://unigine.com/products/unigine/
Now this is supporting all of the DX11 features... BUT I can also run the demo they give on my comptuer which can't even run DX10. They even have an openGL version for very low end computers as well. Take a look at the system requirements and you'll see that it supports a wide range of cards starting at the 700 series.
So iClone could still work with older cards.
Furthermore, I suggested a similar idea like this to those on the Second Life forum and they gave me a large "NO NOT EVERYONE HAS THOSE IT WOULD BE USELESS!"... which was somewhat arguable because everything would have been running inreal time plus it was all streamed too.
But here, the only person who's seeing it in realtime is you. And a lot of people watching may not be able to render these things, but most of them are fully capable of running HD content on their computers. So as a director, the choise would really be up to you as to what hardware you needed to render this.
Yes the story is the most important part of the film, but once you have your story and script all worked out, the quality of the visuals and sound only help to highten the feeling and emotional aspect of it. (at least this is what I believe, I'm not an expert in the field).
So in the end, this is up to you... do you think you could use these tools? Do you think it's worth it for RL to invest their time in making these features available in a future version of iClone?
Any comments?
EDIT:
These are just a few more poitns, you don't HAVE to read these, just something to consider.
When Avatar was created, the graphics in there were VERY NICE... even though I could still tell it was CG, it was VERY GOOD CG and I think DX11 with these cards is on the verge of producing just that in realtime.
When they made the story, they didn't HAVE to use that... they could've used other ways... had people dress up, designed all the sets in real life... but they didn't, they got the hardware and things needed... now this being said, they had a MUCH MUCH larger budget than we do. However, I think with this update, we could do things just as good.
Oh and also... yes I'm aware that there is dynamic hair... but this would be dynamic hair that DOES NOT go through the character.
... ok that's all. :P
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By peteradam6 - 16 Years Ago
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Thanks for all the research on this. Looks like supporting these features could be something for iClone 6 to aim at - once the graphics cards have come down in price, and people have gaming PCs with the kind of Power-Supply Unit and Cooling needed to run one of these cards. Which I would say will be in about two years (2012)?
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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True, however I don't think you need a SUPER epic computer.
I don't have one of those epic cooling systmes on mine's and I can run it fine. I don't have one yet but the power supply I have is a LITTLE better... a 650 watt I think an also it says you really only NEED 2 gigs of system RAM to run the card and 200 megs of HDD space. So you don't need a SUPER computer to run it.
Hm yes I would love to see this in 6 (if not 5.5).
I just found out that this tech was around since last October.
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By tylerzambori - 16 Years Ago
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I don't think my computer is super-epic either. I have a pre-core-i7 quad core,
8 gb of some kind of DDR2 ram, a good 650 watt power supply, and did just add
an nvidia gtx 470 which cost $369 but only because I got the super-clocked one.
The regular ones are closer to $300.
If you do an advanced search on DX11 graphics cards on Newegg, the availability of low
priced cards is amazing. They start at around $40! That would be for a Radeon HD 5450.
So moving up to DX11 wouldn't be that expensive. My google-fu for you!
It think DX11 really needs to happen, especially with GPU rendering coming up.
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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Wow 40?? Geeze.
WEll in that case, maybe it's not so far away after all.
Maybe we will see this in iClone 5 then. Hm.
I wish I could change my poll sinec it's a bit different now.
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By tylerzambori - 16 Years Ago
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Dreamcube017 (9/3/2010)
Wow 40?? Geeze.
WEll in that case, maybe it's not so far away after all.
Maybe we will see this in iClone 5 then. Hm.
I wish I could change my poll sinec it's a bit different now.
Yes indeedy:
http://tinyurl.com/274mlvv
The lowest priced one was a Powercolor HD 5450 at 39.99, actually $24.99 with
rebate.
If only there was more interest in DX11 in Iclone. it doesn't look like there is
much.
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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Hm I'm going to assume that this can just RUN DX11... I'm guessing you won't be seeing Crysis on this... at least not the very nice looking version of it.
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By tylerzambori - 16 Years Ago
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I'm guessing one would want at least 1GB of memory on the graphics card,
to make somewhat decent use of Iclone, right?
The 1Gb ones start at $55. Sapphire brand radeon HD 5450.
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By stuckon3d - 16 Years Ago
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tylerzambori (9/3/2010)
I'm guessing one would want at least 1GB of memory on the graphics card,
to make somewhat decent use of Iclone, right?
The 1Gb ones start at $55. Sapphire brand radeon HD 5450.
FYI, while having one gig of ram on the video card is something you will want for sure, you also want a fast gpu if you want to use the pixel shader properties. Using the cards you are mentioning for 50 to a 100 bucks will give only 1 to 5 FPS at the most. IT is very hard to animate that way. :(
Cheers,
Stuckon3d
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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True, but that's still a nice price and it's still tempting... but you do get what you pay for and compared to what cards used to be like, that's pretty darn good. I think spending 150-200 should give you a DECENT card... and then there's the epic ones taht we all know and love.
Plus you can just turn pixel shaders off until you need them.
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By Capemedia - 16 Years Ago
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Dreamcube017 (9/4/2010)
True, but that's still a nice price and it's still tempting... but you do get what you pay for and compared to what cards used to be like, that's pretty darn good. I think spending 150-200 should give you a DECENT card... and then there's the epic ones taht we all know and love.
Plus you can just turn pixel shaders off until you need them. Doesn't that begin to defeat the object of what you want? What's the point of spending money if the end product is less then you expected? No sure but I've followed your thread and you talk about $150 here or a $150 there, like you have money to burn. The actual expense of upgrading to iClone 5 is going to be a task to some and if you need certain hardware to run it you minimize the market. Remember you must cater for the lowest common denominator when marketing and there are some very fine iClone directors still using iClone 3! It's not the software or the hardware that makes a great film, but the director :) Cape!
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By Paumanok West - 16 Years Ago
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Capemedia (9/4/2010)
Remember you must cater for the lowest common denominator when marketing and there are some very fine iClone directors still using iClone 3! It's not the software or the hardware that makes a great film, but the director
Then it's a no-brainer: stay with iClone 3 and stay great! Problem solved.
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By Capemedia - 16 Years Ago
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Paumanok West (9/4/2010)
Capemedia (9/4/2010)
Remember you must cater for the lowest common denominator when marketing and there are some very fine iClone directors still using iClone 3! It's not the software or the hardware that makes a great film, but the directorThen it's a no-brainer: stay with iClone 3 and stay great! Problem solved. You know Paumanok I just love your irony ;) Plus I don't think much will run on my Sinclair ZX80!!!!!!!
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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Capemedia (9/4/2010)
Dreamcube017 (9/4/2010)
True, but that's still a nice price and it's still tempting... but you do get what you pay for and compared to what cards used to be like, that's pretty darn good. I think spending 150-200 should give you a DECENT card... and then there's the epic ones taht we all know and love.
Plus you can just turn pixel shaders off until you need them. Doesn't that begin to defeat theobject of what you want? What's the point of spending money if the end product is less then you expected? No sure but I've followed your thread and you talk about $150 here or a $150there, like you have money to burn. The actual expense of upgrading to iClone 5is going to be a task to some and if you need certain hardware to run it you minimize the market. Remember you must cater for the lowest common denominator when marketing and there are some very fine iClone directors still using iClone 3! It's not the software or the hardware that makes a great film, but the director :) Cape!
You onkw, it's funny that you mention me saying tossing money here and there... because most times it'd be me that'd be saying that very same thing.
(e.g. the motion capture thread where everyone's like "Oh just buy like 4 PS3 cameras and you're good." Uh... I'm happy if I can buy ONE... let alone FOUR.
I was basically saying in comparison to what the new GFX cards USED to cost to get even 512 megs of RAM in it.
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By Capemedia - 16 Years Ago
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Dreamcube017 (9/4/2010)You onkw, it's funny that you mention me saying tossing money here and there... because most times it'd be me that'd be saying that very same thing.
(e.g. the motion capture thread where everyone's like "Oh just buy like 4 PS3 cameras and you're good." Uh... I'm happy if I can buy ONE... let alone FOUR.
I was basically saying in comparison to what the new GFX cards USED to cost to get even 512 megs of RAM in it. I know I was just putting across the money point :) I'm sure we all would love to have the latest hardware and software, with a motion capture studio thrown in for good measure, but I'm realistic in that only a few people will be able to afford these luxuries. I'm not saying we stagnate and never evolve but the timing has to be right. To be brutally honest I haven't a clue off the top of my head what my studio PC has in hardware and if the graphics card can run DX11???? But I'm happy that it can produce the animation and music I want to at this time. Cape :D
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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If you wanna find out, right click on My Computer and go to Properties and you instantly find out how much RAM you have,, what speed and type of CPU you have, and if it's a 32 or 64 bit system.
One way to find your GFX card is to right click anywhere on the desktop, go to Properties, go to the last tab (Display I think) click on Advanced" and then you'll see a tab witha a really long name like NVIDIA 9800 GT or Intel-R= graphics or ATI Radion 4400. It'll say something like that. THAT is your graphics card. Just pop that name into google (or bing) and you'll find out what up..
It's always helpful to know what you have in your computer.
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By aknzrdude - 16 Years Ago
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another easy way is to click start - and in the command box type dxdiag - this tells you about your system config, chipset, cpu, ram, dx11
for all the talk about dx11 here, it really does not buy you anything yet- at least not in the near 12 months or so unless you are into gaming - and a very limited selection of games at that and most games are backwards compatible anyway
the key criteria you should look for as stuckon3d pointed out is the gpu clock, number of unified shaders, ram - a cheap dx11 card gets you an entry level card - nothing more
now having said that- some really good mainstream cards out there - the ATI5500, 5700 are about $150-$200 range and work really well with iclone
if you want more gpu ram and a pretty powerful card, sapphire has a 5850 that has 2GB - runs about $350
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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Hm, I prefer NVidia myself.
Oh yeah I forgot about DXDiag. I have an NVidia GTX 260... can't remember if it's DX11 compatible or not... I don't thin kit is though.
If you want to really toy around with some DX11 graphics and don't want to wait for a legit realtime 3D software to come out... get Crysis 2 when it comes out. It has a full sandbox with a working physics engine... it's pretty much a machenima tool in itself... not as simple as iClone, but you can definatly take it for a spin and I know that'll be DX11 compatible.
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By Sifr - 16 Years Ago
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An option to implement a slider feature for subdivision at render time would be a great alternitive until everyone catches up to DX11, that way it doesn't have to be done in realtime and individuals with older graphics cards can can benifit from the extra LOD (level of detail):w00t:
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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Not a bad idea. Something tells me it won't be in the next version... or 5.0... but you never know.
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By rontarrant - 16 Years Ago
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Considering that DirectX 11 is only available for Windows 7, and given that Windows 7 doesn't perform as well as Windows XP in about 50% of common tasks, I'd like to see a shift to OpenGL 4. Open standards are always preferable simply because the end user is left in control of the upgrade path. If DirectX 11 were available for Windows XP, I'd never consider upgrading my operating system, for instance, just to gain the benefits of tessellation.
At the very least, I'd like to see the option of using OpenGL.
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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OpenGL is pretty cool. I hate how most 3D software (nonrealtime) mistreat OpenGL and make it look bad by giving you a HORRIBLE preview._PS3 uses OpenGL for all its games and they look great.
I like the dynamics of the poll. When it first started, most of the choices were set to "I wish I could have it but I can't." and now the majority is set to "If iClone gets this, I'm going to upgraade."
I just bought Windows 7 Home Premium for my desktop a minute ago... it's a disc so I gotta wait for it to get here.
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By rontarrant - 16 Years Ago
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Dreamcube017 (11/24/2010)
OpenGL is pretty cool. I hate how most 3D software (nonrealtime) mistreat OpenGL and make it look bad by giving you a HORRIBLE preview._PS3 uses OpenGL for all its games and they look great.
I like the dynamics of the poll. When it first started, most of the choices were set to "I wish I could have it but I can't." and now the majority is set to "If iClone gets this, I'm going to upgraade."
I just bought Windows 7 Home Premium for my desktop a minute ago... it's a disc so I gotta wait for it to get here.
Did you get the 32-bit or 64-bit version?
I bought Windows 7 Ultimate the other day, but I'm wondering now if I shouldn't just resell it. My computer is a bit old and even though Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor says it'll work okay, I'm not sure I'll really get any benefit from it. I suppose if DirectX 11 was supported in iClone, it might be worth it. Then again, I'd have to upgrade my video card, too. I am thinking of getting a new computer, but... Decisions! Decisions! Bah!
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By Dreamcube017 - 16 Years Ago
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Both versions come with one license.
I am running the 64 bit version though for some other applications. iClone should still work though I hope.
I'd like to upgrade my GFX card too. I want one of the 400 series cards.
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By rontarrant - 16 Years Ago
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Dreamcube017 (11/29/2010)
I'd like to upgrade my GFX card too. I want one of the 400 series cards.
I hear ya, Dreamcube! I saw a really good deal on TigerDirect.ca for the GTX-460, but I don't have the money yet.
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