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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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iClone, with a project open and with the program minimized and seemingly inactive, is showing 25% CPU usage and 20% RAM usage. I've never noticed anything like this before. Considering that this machine has substantial resources, I can't help wonder what iClone is up to. The screen display shows 4.3 Gb VRAM usage.
Is this normal? Is this an indication of a problem? Does it suggest a problem with my project itself?
Thanks...
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By wires - 5 Years Ago
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The figure appear to be excessive.
I've got the following open:
Here are the usage stats from both the Task Manager and GPU-Z:
Edge, GIMP and iClone are all minimised to the Taskbar and iClone has a Project loaded containing 2 globes with images.
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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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wires (6/17/2021)
The figure appear to be excessive.
Thank you, I thought so too.
The file size of the project is ~1.1Gb. It's the biggest file I've ever loaded. I'm wondering if that is a factor. Have you ever loaded a file that size?
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By wires - 5 Years Ago
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I did have a similar issue with a project that was just under 1GB in size, it was also very heavy on materials/textures and that combination did put a real stress load on both my CPU and GPU. I got around the issue by reducing the scenes to only those objects visible to the camera in any single take, and also switched a lot of the prop real-time viewing mode to smooth, or even mesh when animating. I switched everything back to normal before rendering.
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By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
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This might be an appropriate time to mention that iClone has a real issue when it comes to NUMBER of objects. Doesn't matter if they even have any maps or materials on them, or if they are very low-poly - a large number of objects themselves can slow iClone down to a crawl (and, I assume, put a heavy stress on CPU/GPU, although I've never measured).
You can have a project with several million polys and 5GB of textures but if it has only one object it's fine - another with hundreds of polys and no textures but hundreds of objects will cripple iClone.
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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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wires (6/17/2021)
I did have a similar issue with a project that was just under 1GB in size, it was also very heavy on materials/textures and that combination did put a real stress load on both my CPU and GPU. I got around the issue by reducing the scenes to only those objects visible to the camera in any single take, and also switched a lot of the prop real-time viewing mode to smooth, or even mesh when animating. I switched everything back to normal before rendering.
Thank you, I guessed it was file size related.
I have a two story traditional house. I have begun today deleting all the components that aren't needed in a given scene, and using a different file for scenes in different rooms. We don't need no stinkin' roof. I have high hopes.
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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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Kelleytoons (6/17/2021)
This might be an appropriate time to mention that iClone has a real issue when it comes to NUMBER of objects. Doesn't matter if they even have any maps or materials on them, or if they are very low-poly - a large number of objects themselves can slow iClone down to a crawl (and, I assume, put a heavy stress on CPU/GPU, although I've never measured).
You can have a project with several million polys and 5GB of textures but if it has only one object it's fine - another with hundreds of polys and no textures but hundreds of objects will cripple iClone.
AHA! Thank you Master Kelly! This is what I was looking for. This Modern Home model has more objects than a tree has leaves. (FWIW, it's making DAZ croak too.) Now I can treat the cause.
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By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
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One thing you can do, if you DO have hundreds of objects (but need them) is combine them into one object. Lots of ways to skin this cat - export them all as FBX and combine in Blender, for example, but my favorite is to attach them all to a CC3 character, bring them into CC3 to edit, and select them all and modify/merge to one object. Then send back to iClone, detach from that avatar (delete it if necessary) and Presto! Suddenly all starts working really, really good (amazing well, in fact).
This inability to handle so many objects I do believe is a bug in iClone, perhaps related to how it indexes so many objects. I need to discuss with the devs but I'm working on some cases to present to them.
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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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Kelleytoons (6/17/2021)
One thing you can do, if you DO have hundreds of objects (but need them) is combine them into one object. Lots of ways to skin this cat - export them all as FBX and combine in Blender, for example, but my favorite is to attach them all to a CC3 character, bring them into CC3 to edit, and select them all and modify/merge to one object. Then send back to iClone, detach from that avatar (delete it if necessary) and Presto! Suddenly all starts working really, really good (amazing well, in fact).
This inability to handle so many objects I do believe is a bug in iClone, perhaps related to how it indexes so many objects. I need to discuss with the devs but I'm working on some cases to present to them.
Thank you Mike. I'm going to bookmark this thread in my browser, and try it soon. Meanwhile I've already cut the file size down to 1/3, so I assume the number of objects has gone down as well. Task Manager still reports "high" CPU usage, although it is 1/6 of what it was. I'm going to see how iClone handles it today. If it fails, you've given me an option.
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By sonic7 - 5 Years Ago
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Hey - Mike! - This is a great tip! Thank you! - You may well have saved my sanity!
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By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
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It was a very odd thing, but apparently this has been around a LONG time (at least three or four years). I had one file with one prop in it that whenever I used it would bring my machine to a crawl. Dennis and I thought it had something to do with transparency (still an issue at times) but couldn't pin it down. So then I got my new machine, this supposedly "wonder" (fastest CPU and GPU available currently) and it didn't help with this at all. Not even slightest.
So then I'm working on ANOTHER scene and I took a basic set I had that worked just fine but was a single object and I broke it down (using Blender) into a hundred or so because I wanted to manipulate them separately. Lo and behold my wonder machine wouldn't handle it. Same polys, same maps, but now a hundred or more objects compared to one and I could hardly move around.
Which led me to investigate my older prop. Once I combined all the hundreds of sub-objects (using Blender) into a dozen or so suddenly the prop worked wonderfully, even though it looked exactly the same (it WAS the same - same polys, same maps, just a dozen objects compared to hundreds). So the veil has lifted from my eyes.
This is VERY different from any other 3D software I've ever used. In any of those (Max, say) you can have hundreds of objects with no slow-down whatsoever. But iClone doesn't work that way and I think it's a bug (or at least badly written code). And it explains SO much to me now, so many times I could not for the life of me figure out why a set that only took up 1-2GB of GPU RAM would just not work properly, when I had other projects that were 9-11GB that worked fine.
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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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At the moment I suspect it may be one particular wayward prop.
I've got the same set loaded in iClone and DAZ at the same time. Same house, props, characters. I'm doing lighting comparisons.
I closed DAZ with the scene open so I could go back to a previous version. When I reopened it a giant cube was in the middle of my living room, and my rug was gone. The cube could not be selected, and I had to go back to an earlier file.
Now I'm going to go back to iClone, delete that rug, and see if it settles things down. It's a guessing game now. I don't want to recreate the whole set, but I will if I have to.
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By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
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If you tell me what Daz set it is I can check it out myself. (You don't have to and I won't check it if you don't want me to, but sometimes I can see things others can't).
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By 3DChick - 5 Years Ago
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Mike,
You're exporting the many-object sets into CC3 or Blender to combine into one. Is there a reason not just to use "merge subprop" in iClone? Does that not work for this? (Because yes, I've had this issue and not even known what the problem was...)
Thanks!
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By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
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I've done it that way as well but merging from Blender is actually easier/better since you can control Materials better (and get rid of ones no longer used). But you are right, this is actually the way I was going to recommend instead of CC3 (for some reason I had this back asswards - I did it three different ways and this one was the easiest. Blender merge is the best. Sometimes the easiest is better than the best :>).
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By 3DChick - 5 Years Ago
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Mike--thank you! I don't have Blender installed yet on the new 'puter. I have used it to decimate giant sets that wouldn't import into iClone but haven't tried this merge thing. When I get it installed, I'll have to try it.
Thank you for all this info--this is why I love this community.
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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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I built this set up over a period of time in DAZ. It's based on one of the Modern Home models. Every nail in the floor is an object. I've added the furniture to it one item at a time from a number of vendors.
I brought it into iClone one item at a time as well, either as OBJ or as FBX. I used it as a learning experience. I had no problems with that. This is what I call my "set."
Now, at long last, I've decided to animate some characters. This is when I began to notice wonky behavior. Some of it is just me learning new things. Some of it is not. Undesirable behavior in both programs, with the same objects, but of a slightly different nature in each program. I've noticed the iClone VRAM display going all over the place. In the past I've only seen it stable. Am I learning something new?
I'm using a lot of old props, some maybe 15 years old, just because I like their looks. I've learned though that not all of the older props behave well under all circumstances. For that matter, some of the new props are less than perfect, as you know. Did the giant cube replace the Comfy Chair in DAZ because the prop was NG (I say that because the cube was located and rotated just as the chair was)? and just happened to take the rug with it?
Animation is a time-consuming and fiddly thing, and I've already lost a couple of days of it. I hope to get to the bottom of this before I waste more time. I've deleted the rug and chairs from the iClone set and there is no change in the CPU usage. I am open to the possibility that the same objects and numbers of objects may be causing different issues in each program. The common thread is uncharacteristicly lethargic behavior. I've had iClone lock up on me more than once, and I've had DAZ crash more than once, both while using this same set. I'm not sure what I'll try next, but I will resolve this shortly.
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By 3DChick - 5 Years Ago
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Mike probably knows better than I do, but in Daz, when I've had giant cubes replace items, it's because Daz can't locate the geometry or other mesh files (like it's been moved on the disk or something). Be careful messing with that issue in Daz, because when I've had it happen it corrupted the original scene file and I couldn't relink things. I had to start over...
Hoping it works for you...
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By R Ham - 5 Years Ago
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So you've seen the cube, eh? ;-)
I threw out all the furniture and there is still odd behavior. I'm going to throw the whole house out next. Corruption must be ruled out.
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EDIT
It looks like it was something in the house. I can tell because Aniblocks now work properly. This is good. Knock on wood.
I compared the file sizes. The project file size in DAZ was normal, but the iClone project file size was huge beyond belief. I should have looked at this at the first.
I'll import the house into iClone by itself, and compare file sizes before bringing any props in.
EDIT 2
It's right snappy now. The iClone file size is miniscule compared to the old file, and in fact is 1/3 what it is in DAZ. CPU usage is normal now.
Thank you, gentlemen. It always helps to hear other people's comments. Reminds me of the drafting room.
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