Further than tjhis they already use a mini version of MoCap devices called...

.... the IGS-Mini.

The image speaks for itself.

So, back to craft iClone 5 Dream tools..... maybe not in iClone 5 (Breathe easy, Big "R" )  but imagine putting on a face mesh of several sensors that not only capture your brows, scheeks, mouth, lips, throat and etc movements and appply it live to the onscreen character AND store the script dynamically into the project, but also take the audio and capture that live as well animating the characters mouth accordingly.

Animazoo already have one for limbs and whole bodies.
It would be possible, not science fantasy, to imagine an affordable version for distribution with iClone purchases.

Remember when scanners first came out they were in excess of £2000:00.
Now theyre £30 throw away devices.
iClone MoCap kits can only be a few steps away and we wont need to refine scripts or master coding to make an arm grasp an enemy.
Simply strap on the MoCap mesh and adjust it realtime.

Its happening now.
External to iClone on a grande scale.
And if Animators were in some way disabled, it would still open up afforable avenues for others to supply the needed anim. after seeing a draught of the required.

This would be my ultimate future dream tool.
Just  my tuppence.
Armstrong.

I'm not sure where the iClone5 references come from but all viable wishful features will be considered for future upgrades/versions. Thanks again. 

It seems you have the wrong information:   Take a look at this pictures:

First one is the 3DS MAX Video Post window, where you can combine all kind of videos, images, and effects, including the render window, and you can output several formats AT THE SAME TIME!

The second image is a fragment of the Help MAX file, where you can see some of the MANY commands available in VideoPost to render and effect almost anything!

So... You see?    MAX does have it!.  Of course Maya too and I wonder which 3D program, does not!

For everybodies info.  only!

Mike

Good news. The next full version of iClone will include some basic video editing fuctionality.

Paumanok West (5/25/2010)

---

Sorry, PMS meds are on Aisle 13.
And industrial-strength PMS meds are on the upper shelf, out of reach of children.
Use only as directed.

I'm an S1 Cyborg culling agent. I don't do nice. Wanna be on my list?

The same properties for the start - end point but also something that meant it was, for example, dense at, say, 50 feet bt non existent at gorund level.

If you were flying it would give the impression of coming down through the clouds. I dont know if Reallusion have a particle effect that transitions in quite the same way, I dont think Particles work in this way.

S.S.

When I have a project with a lot of props in it and want to make changes to them on the Time Line I get the feeling that I'm killing my left mouse button.

Simple example:

4 props in a project that need to change during the course of the scene.

Open the Track List and select prop A, make the changes on the selected actions on the Time Line.

Open the Track List and deselect prop A, the Track List then closes.

Next action is to make changes to props B and C, open the Track List, select prop B - the Track List closes. Open it again for prop C.

Next action deselect props B and C to make changes to prop D - this now involves opening the Track List to deselect prop B, open it again to deselect prop C and then open it once again to select prop D.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could keep the Track List open for as long as we need to select/deselect any combination of items - and then close it?

Armstrong (5/30/2010)

---

Whilst updating some of my Characters finally oh my God finally FINALLY ............... I was pondering a method of making small raindrop styled glass beads with a mapped cycling anim on their surface....
THEN I was going to attach these to cloth hanging form the head dress so that they would sway with the movement of the material...
But...
I was only going to make the material invisible anyway so that the beads appeared suspended and they'd effectively bounce.

WHY NOT INSTEAD.....
My Request.
Can we have it so that we can attach objects remotely to characters (for instance) say, about two feet away from her head... but that when that character moves; turns, there's a slight [adjustable-controllable] delay before the objects follow suit in an ease in ease out manner?
As if you're pulling something magnetic through treacle. I'm trying to be thorough here!

This would not only be superb for things like garments, diamond tiaras where the diamonds are to appear as if suspended on wires...

1) But it would also be good for things like lil flying bats around a characters head...
2) A formation of aircraft where a squadron of 8 go into a coordinated dive on the enemy with variables allowing staggered follow on after the leader...
3) A shoal of Koi Carp (incidentally Marginally biased on this one!!!) would be able to swim in a superb shoal effect ESPECIALLY if the follow through control allowed slight variance on delay and easing speeds. WOAH... I mean THIS would be amazing....
And Thi Mai (pr. Tee MY) could have utterly the most amazing sparklies with a gravity effect slightly delayed behind each wing motion.
4) A Swarm of Bees..... Even this could be stunning with 7 simple 2D planes of Bee graphics attached to one singular which is pathed allowing the others to randomly follow it in delayed sequence in close quarters........... instant Bee Swarm.
5) Bubbles in a drink of Champers. One key bubble, 50 tagged with varying eas in ease out follow attachment.
6) Ducks on a pond, leaves on a tree, Cars in a race, birds migrating, Herd of Horses galloping, Clouds drifting, do I go on?

I haven't got the slightest idea what you'd call it though. "Gravity Attachment." "Momentum Attachment."
But it's a definite must have.

Tied into particles this would give scope to things you just cant explain.

This is a passing thought. I cant find it in any of the other software's descriptions.
Incidentally 4.2 is singing this end. The 3D effects are spooky.
Armstrong.

What you are referring to is often called expressions or scripts in other programs.

???

If that was directed to me?

I'm specifically referring to this request:

Compositing programs like After Effects have expressions where you can either create null layers and link or parent positioning/movement parameters using mathematical expressions (formulas).  Vector and 3D based programs like Flash, Blender, and even iClone already have scripting abilities to use code to write small macro type instructions/behaviors.  iClone has it for motion editing called AML Editor:

http://developer.reallusion.com/amleditor.aspx

Basically, this scripting needs to be opened up even further with more commands to give better control with such things such as parenting for delayed movements and such.

Dear Reallusion Crew...
Would it be possible to have a global wind direction and strength control and then on each object like Cloth have a simple percentage scale that controls just how much it reacts to the wind?
Working on multiple canvasses in the exhibition, it would shave off some good time as an efficiency upgrade.
Armstrong.

I'm working on rebuilding my Canvases for the Exhibition once more. I'm trying to do a fancy composition with the flags edge on. They react to the flex setting randomly but... I noticed when I was working on some rerenders for Thi Mai (pr. tee MY ) that the wing glow maps were only visible on one side. This was FANTASTIC as a choice for Both or One because visually it added another eyecandy element and was gorgeous.

Can we have this as a choice, glow on both side or one? And also I cant get the same effect in Version 4.2. Did you fix it? Can you optionally UN-fix it please. Because its so lovely.

Armstrong. 

"More Passing Thoughts During This Months Set Creation."

With the way the water plane undulates and riples etc with wave control, is it possible to create this to affect a SPhere like a bauble of water or even a simple bubble. The way the shape kind of undulates and bobbs as it flexes to different forces and its own mass?
Armstrong.

I second that too!
Siouxie Sioux.

Hi Kofla,

Have you seen the pack below. This would seem to be perfect for your needs.

This is not abug. Any speech recognition algorithm requires a clean speech signal with minumum background noise. Providing it is the responsibility of the user.

The algorithm is already build in for creating 3D output from your animations. Nothing special you have to do except selecting the option when exporting.

funfunfun (9/9/2010)

---

This is a follow up to my post in the chain about animation.

iClone seriously needs to hit Natural Motion up for some of their Euphoria action. Never heard of Euphoria? Well check out this video:

http://www.naturalmotion.com/euphoria.htm

Again, I love animation, and really animation is the center of the universe when it comes to iClone's storytelling abilities, because without it there is no motion picture

This type of motion and physics within iclone would be beyond cool.

i like the idea for lighting barn doors...and maybe even more then 8 lights 4 spot/4 point

thanks

steve

Hi Dreamcube,

Please try to keep the size of images down or alternatively link to them as attachments. As the forum text also stretches when using large images it does make the forum difficult to read for many users. Thanks.

Sorry for the delayed response. Am buried in set design and such and Christmas is bearing down on me like a ton of old fir trees.

I like the idea of hi-res output but actually, Im not saying there isnt enough because there's now more in iClone than I will ever need as demanding as I am. But I thought the logistics in development with Reallusion was that we need to build the detail first before we try to render it.

Just my tupp'oth.

Armstrong.

    It should include an Alphabetical Index with glossary of technical terms. Eg; Face Count,   Polygons etc. As in other Programs.

2) The User Manual needs to be re-organised into Beginner, Intermediate & Advanced, with a very simple Video Tutorial constructing a very simple StoryLine. The same StoryLine to be used at each level, adding advanced techniques.

3) An InstantSave, taking a "Snapshot" every few seconds, of the Editing function, in case iClone closes unexpectedly. As in other Programs. Giving the options of Continuing with the Current Project, Opening another Existing Project or Opening a New Project, when iClone's Re-launched.

4) iClone needs a "Route Generator", whereby the User can just Draw a Route & add an Object to follow that Route, as in other Programs (eg; proDAD's Heroglyph) & is simpler & quicker than the current Path Generator.    

1. Physics
2. Dynamic Lights without the timeline limitation. I know I can animate the lights in the timeline and change colors and all that, but what I'd really like is some way to create an animation and then simply attach it to the light and tell it when the effect is on/off and be able to loop it as well. So the animation/behavior would be detached from the timeline, but I'd use the timeline to turn the effect on/off.
3. A way to encapsulate lighting and atmosphere into some sort of container that can be turned on/off mutually exclusively. So I could bundle a bunch of lights, fog, sky, and other atmospheric attributes (particles for instance) into a container and give it a name such as Sunny Day, Rainy Day, Cloudy Night, Stormy Night, etc. Then I could just select which atmosphere I want and render a scene. Otherwise I have to have multiple projects with different environment settings and if any of the scene elements change then I have to change them all in every project.
4. Post-production renderer

Units of Measure:

It would be nice to have units of measure (metric/imperial) displayed.  For example, I wanted to create a scene that was somewhat to scale.  I had to create a 1'x1'x1' cube in Google SketchUp and import it into iClone 4.3  I was then able to determine that a grid spacing of approximately 30x30 is similar to 1'x1'

Exportable Formats:

It would be helpful to have some additional exportable formats for 3DXchange - not just .OBJ.  For example, I would have appreciated the ability to export to .SKP.

It's been mentioned before; it would be nice to see some additional video export formats in iClone.

True 64-bit Support:

True 64-bit support so as to leverage O/S and memory capabilities.

Fully Configurable Options:

Extended "settings" panel for additional configuration so as to avoid manual changes to configuration files/registry.

Dedicated Hardware FAQ's:

Dedicated forum or support pages with recommendations (tips) on how to configure video card settings, etc.

Later, trollz.

2 Excellent Video Tutorials.

Thanks for taking the time & trouble in Posting them to YouTube, in the first place.

I think Pau would accord with that statement

The next version of iClone will feature PIP (Picture in Picture). This will help with the problem you describe.

A Gizmo for the camera will be a feature in the next version. Sadly extra lights are not a planned addition at this stage. Maybe further down the line.

Both the above should be achievable in the next version of iClone with the use of scripts.

1. Allow sequentially numbered images (file001.jpg, file002.jpg, etc) as texture images and ALLOW a choice between SEQUENTIAL IMAGES and RANDOMIZATION of IMAGES.

2. Allow particles to be rotated randomly (as it is now) but not require that the particle continue rotating

3. Correct painting problem when particles are in a scene containing video textures. (The video textures fade out and the particles always appear in front of the video texture, even when the particles should be hidden by the video texture.)

My dream is to have, a day, a very photorealistic version of  my dear, easy iClone.

To produce results similar to the best softwares. More poligons in the meshes, more definition in the images, a tool for creating and animating (and not importing) own props. Hair and clothes that don't compenetrate the body ....

I should like to do films, and not only cartoons.

I think that iClone is only at a step to all this. And i think that many people will be ready to spend a thousand dollars or more for a professional version of a so friendly software, instead of the holy monsters.

I am waiting.

Guido

But, maybe, cause my horrible english, i did not explain well my point of wiew.

Exactly like You, i don't want to work four hours on the smile of a girl.

The reason is just this one!

My dream is a software easy to use like iClone, but with the graphic results of Modo 501.

Only an utopia, obvious. But dreams are free.

Thank You for Your attention.

Guido

I am with You.

As You, i use what exists. As You, i don't see at the horizon anything that satisfies me.

As i told, mine were only dreams.

But i am sure that something can be done. Two little examples:

1) the smooth function of 3dxchange, applyed at the head of an actor, or at the hair, could make rounder and sweeter images.

2) a mesh deformer similar to sculptris, for obtain plastic objects from primitives, that change at different frames, could make a real animation of a own prop. Not more heavy than an imported, similar object.

And much more.

What do you think about?

Good afternoon

Guido

Hold on to your hat's REALLUSON, I challenge you to develop the following top 5 new features in iClone 5 :

1) Facial Animation available for non-human Characters. i.e. if iClone recognizes a G4 Compatible Head Bone structure in a non-human character Avatar, e.g on an animal, then iClone would activate the Facial Animation feature. {you can do this, it would be little development, just activate the damm panel !!! }

2) Provide Keyframe Editing capabilities on imported motion clips, i.e. like what Crazytalk offers for detailed facial animation. In other words, the user could double click on the motion segment and enter the keyframe editor.

3) Correct the current limitations with the SNAP function for motion, i.e. support SNAP on "z" axis as well. In other words, allow for not returning the Avatar to the ground plane z=0 if the Avatar has fallen into a Crypt when the user drags a new motion file onto him ! 

4) Support NVIDIA 3D Vision INSIDE the Viewport, i.e. WYSIWYG 3D

5) Support 6 audio tracks for (5-1) surround soundFX and alow for AC3 Encoding on Export.

Do you want more ideas, I have many more !!! ???

Cheers! 

With little adjust, (the flex and the spring on every object, the collision control, a better animation control....) The wonderful iClone may become a great software.

Easy and quick, and with results similar to most appreciated softwares.

On may send the impossible Blender to sleep.

Write You soon!

Guido

As always your feedback has been passed to the iClone team for review.

Hi Pau

You will be pleased to know that the next version of iClone will allow video export up to 2048 x 1080. Unfortunately a decision to support JPEG 2000 image sequence has yet to be decided.

Still to be decided if this will make the next version.

The next version will work more like CTA. Body motion will down to each body part.

The next version will allow for floor contact. You will also have the ability to keep characters on the ground.

Still under discussion I'm afraid.

Sadly not in the next release.

iClone will have improved animation in the next version you can be sure.

Clothing physics will be a feature of the next version which will help enormously in this area.

What you say is true to some extent. It is nice to be able to do what you say, but I would prefer to have the ability to override a default behavior that prevents body intersections so that I can handle the rare case where it's wanted. Because 99% of the time it is not a desired behavior.

1) Add one more Part to the G3 Character and make it a G4 so we would have:

    - Shoes

    - Body

    - Lower Cloth

    - Upper Cloth

    - Gloves

    - Face

This would allow for a Single piece Body (like Skintight) with separate Lower & Upper for the Cloth so we could replace only the clothing completely separately from the Skin Layer.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...

vidius

PARTICLE RAMP-UP TIME
It would be nice to have a global feature that, if checked on, would provide a period of time for particle effects to begin playing before the scene timeline starts. So it would be a check box to turn it on/off and a time value in seconds. This would allow all particle effects in the scene to get up to speed before the animations in the scene started. I know I can do this by simply starting all my animations further in on the timeline, but frankly, this is easier and should be a simple addition.

Today, the most important function seems to be a mesh deformer, to change the shapes along the timeline and obtain wonderful animations.

Tomorrow? I don't know.

A think that surprise me, is that most of iCloners like low poligonal meshes. Why?

Guido

Probably because iClone doesn't perform very well with high-polygon meshes. It doesn't even currently support 64-bit or multi-core processing. Perhaps if it operated smoothly with high-polygon count scenes then this would change.

1. Load and handle high-poly meshes (lots of them) without major performance or stability issues. Like what Daz Studio can do in real-time.

2. Post-production renderer option with a lighting system similar to what Daz Studio/Cararra have. Or maybe the ability to offload to some existing post-production rendering tool. I Don't really know if this is even possible, but I seem to recall someone else mentioning this on the forums.

3. 64-Bit Native Code

4. Multi-Core processing

Peter, can you comment on these features and let us know if any of them are in development for iClone 5? It would be nice to know if these are on the roadmap or not.

Thanks

I think you just answered your own question.

BTW, I agree with the multi-core and 64-bit support.

I like that I can load high-poly meshes in real-time (meaning during scene setup) without stability issues.

Vit3D (6/23/2011)

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Magique, do You know ANY (!) application which can process hi-poly models in real time with all displacements, normal bumping, light and shadow effects on desktop computer ? We should wait a bit while hardware will be able to support this

I don't mean with all the bells and whistles or for final output/rendering. Just quick shader mode kind of stuff. I'm only talking about scene setup and manipulation. Lots of programs do this. TrueSpace, for instance, can handle millions of polys in the scene creation stage. It's a free product, btw. Not exactly what I want to use for filmmaking, but it's a example of what you are talking about. Daz seems to handle it much better from what I've seen of it so far.

I think you may wrongly comparing the features of fully fledged 3D modellers and expecting iClone to be able to match those features. iClone is movie making software with many 3D modelling features added. The important difference is that iClone runs fully realtime.

Try adding a few high resolution avatars in Daz Studio. The add your textures, props, lights etc. Now try running this fully textured in realtime. It simply won't, not even on the most powerful of computers. In Daz Studio and other 3D modellers you would need to drop down to at least wireframe mode to get acceptable results in anything other than a very basic scene.

iClone works well with low to mid resolution models and that is by design. It is not meant to work with high poly models. If that was to be added it would have to be at the expense of its realtime features. And I really don't think there will be much support for that.

Not quite true. I can have a cluttered scene that runs really slow in real-time while setting up the scene, perhaps even 2-3 FPS. However, when rendered out, each frame gets rendered properly and provides a smooth 30 FPS final product. It doesn't drop frames that it can't render fast enough to disk. So, in reality, it's not "rendering" in real-time. It doesn't, however, provide special rendering techniques such as ray-tracing during rendering as do post-production renderers.

Pixar works indeed with simpler models to get the animation right, which is carefully planned in advance. They'll have to: according to a CNet article, on average one frame of the new Cars 2 movie took 11.5 hours to render. To get the film finished during our lifetime, they increased the size of their render farm to 12,500 CPU cores. The time needed is not just because of the number of polygons, but also due to the physics and other simulations they introduce to achieve their realism. Like splashing water, for example.

All I gotta say is Kinect is my next investment along with the iClone upgrade I've been waiting 4 yrs for.

Collision Detection Galore Video.

RL really listens to it's knoledgable user base.

Do You know if iC5 will have the possibility to assign a bones skeleton to static props, for animate and transorm it in non-human characters?

Thank You

Guido

Hi..

The next version of iClone will include a "flag" system on the Project track of the timeline. This should go a little way to meeting your request.

If you wish to move objects around in small incremements you can reduce the size of the Grid Spacing under Preferences and then use Snap To Grid. This will alow more precise movements.

Hi Guido

I have no news on this particular feature but if it was to appear, it would most likely be in a future version of 3DXchange rather than iClone itself.

Let's hope. I think it will open many possibilities. For me it is surely so.

Thank You.

Guido

The next version of iClone will include post effects. This will allow you to change glare color.

Vit3D (5/10/2011)

---

Greetings,

I have some wishes about next generation of base model which (I hope) come with iClone 5.
Maybe I'm not right, but I think that base character model is not only "content" but more program feature.
All changes in lighting, rendering, UI etc will be really great, but if base character will be the same, effect from these improvement will be not complete.

Bone system...
Current RL bones movement scheme too far from standard bone systems (Biped, CAT etc) -- legs, shoulders and hands have 2 bend points instead of 1 (as in most bone systems).
Maybe theoretically it's good for smooth skin deformation, but in reality this smooth deformation practically unrealizable because it's impossible exactly simulate bone motion in 3D development program if bones have 2 bend point in knee and shoulders.
If base models will have more traditional bone movement system iClone developers will be able to create better (well skinned) content.

Increased number of connection points in body parts.
Even now iClone 4 works fine with "middle +" polygons models, so there is no real technical restriction if number of connection points in body parts will be increased up-to 50%. This changes will not make models too "hard" but significantly improve models' looks.

Next generation of head model.
I think that current G4 head model has some dis-balance in polygon's population - some zones have very good topology, but others are too low poly and as result we have visible defects which will not be fixed with normal bump.
I can mark as "critical" such zones as:
- back and top of the head;
- head-to-neck zone;
- ears;
- nose wings.
Also it'll be nice if head will have well relaxed UV layout.
And ofc it'll be great if developers will have head template.

More "flexible" accessories.
Currently iClone classified objects as "accessories" only if they linked to bone system, but it'll be great if in iClone 5 any objects which skinned to RL bone system will classified as "accessories" too.
This can give wide range of possibilities for character customization -- for example if accessories will be skinned it'll be possible to use them as extra cloth parts or even extra cloth layers.

Hope my comments will be helpful...

The next version of iClone will certainly offer big improvements to avatars.

The new G5 characters (did I just say that) will include a better mesh, enhanced facial animation, new hip and chest bones and improved natural motion movement.

Exciting stuff I'm sure you will agree.

iClone5 will have a tree planter much like the current grass planter.

There is no information as yet as to pricing but there certainly will be an upgrade offer for those using previous versions of iClone. More information on this will come nearer release time.

After this reselecting elements would be a choice where you could edit, delete or add to the projects elements.

Armstrong

The Flex prop needs to have the ability to flow away from itself.
As if the wind is repelling the edges and that the wind is originating from the items centre.
In this way I can make something that will effectively gently flow in a wind generating from itself in one direction.

At the moment I cant use them in any way unless there is a North South East West  generated wind and as the character turns wearing the object, in this case, a flower, the petals blow inside the avatar. RATHER than blow simply in one direction AWAY from its own "mass".

Armstrong.

Along with that, I still say a terrain and sky creator would be good. An environment creator with terrain, sky, and building creator would be really good. They don't have to be super advanced, but just something to start from... then maybe terrains could hold multiple materials? I know I've mentioned it, but it'd be really nice to have.

And the texture layers could support all the properties as materials. Not just deffuse, but bump, specular, glow, and reflection as well. This would be great.

Please include it if possible. Thank you!

Brgds. 

All objects to have multi-resolution (high/mid/low poly) with low being mandatory res and the other resolutions being optional.

Import low-res to iclone & work with it; generate a render script - based on project info (timeline/animation/scripts/ sets / characters/ interaction etc) - for  (optional) "off-line" render; render offline in high-res (high poly) or "online" in normal res.

Polycount for rendering to be selectable (slider?).

Cheers.

@dreamcube. Well said. Real time would be sweet!

I hope motion blur is in iclone 5 - more so because it truly is in high demand so many people have asked for it here. Not sure about complexity of implementation but it can add loads to "production value".

Just to add that motion blur should be accompanied with:

1. Multiple frame rates (1-1000 fps)

2. Choice of Shutter speed (with blur reducing as speed increases - very high speeds having ZERO blur - like in real life - for artistic effects)

Example; I may want to "shoot" in iClone at 24fps with a "shutter" of 1/48, OR 25fps @1/250 OR 8fps at 1/48 OR 24fps with shutter speed of 1/24 etc

Each combination of the above settings should give different MOTION BLUR results...

========

lens modeling would be fantastic addition. Simulate:

1. Focal length (exists) - but add option for common distortions as effects (e.g. fisheye look)

2. Aperture simulation to influence the "bokeh" (BACKGROUND blur)

=========

Exposure simulation (as pre-sets before shooting?). Nice to have I think (compared to the others above which I think are important) and perhaps can be simulated to an extent in the NLE (movie editor).

Cheers.

And to the hair?

Thanks.

Guido

Characters / avatars / props for crowd simulations with different (selectable) levels of poly detail depending on actual distance from camera and the camera lens (focal length which i guess translates to "virtual distance").

The "farther" from camera (including virtual distance) the less detail (selectable?) and less CPU needed.

Then applying random PERFORMANCE variations to "object" instances (INDIVIDUALLY OR IN GROUPS)... with varying levels of disjointness.. varying from 100% uniform performance by the crowd/swarm/herd to "100%" (i.e. acceptably) chaotic.

Would be fantastic if they reintroduced crowds... doesn't even have to be AI (artificial inteligence) based..

A good choice of movie making features would go a long way in strongly differentiating iClone as a "complete, integrated, user orientated, virtual movie making environment" (market differentiation?) - so it doesn't get associated with products that serve different speciality purpose (e.g. Daz).

TAKING IT FURTHER... Thinking loud..

CLONING CHARACTERS: "Cloning" of characters (right click, choose "clone", number of clones, & then select whether idential or unique clones). Identical clones would be simply an automated copy paste (but with a "clone group ID"). Unique clones would have the system generate random variations in avatar characteristics (height / body size / walking style, face, hair, beard etc) - based on available library and user selected bounds. Also would share a "clone group ID" so they can have certain common behavior or performance "goals".

ANIMATION: Perhaps we could have random (but "bounded") variation in AML parameters of a specific animation family (e.g. user groups "Run" & "walk" as "move" & then assigns to a group of low poly "clones".

User sets the "randomize level" and "variation strength" parameter and for each "avatar clone", system adjusts the speed / direction of movement, approach style (straight / curved / zig zag) for example within the specified bounds.

The special AML script would be generated based on user input and executed.

===========================

I (and am sure a good number of users here)  would be happy to assist the RL dev team during the "requirements specification" process... e.g. by giving user feedback (film maker perspective) to "functional walkthoughs" for exploratory prototypes (e.g. via interactive webinar)...

The product has been branded as a "movie making machine" (which is great! and hopefully the core vision that RL execs had). Hence it should excel in that area more than any other product in the market (which makes business sense ..i.e. competitive advantage).

Cheers.

(opinion)

Am not sure whether people use iClone's "director mode" for any serious stuff. Maybe I just dont know how to use it well.

Whilst I acknowledge being ignorant of certain aspects/benefits of director mode.. I would suggest they scrap this mode altogether - or make it clear what purpose (or what market segments?) it serves. Perhaps resources can be rechanelled to the more robust features...

:-) 

RL can segment its market (e.g. "Kids/schools", "Noobs / tinkering hobbyists" and "Pros / semi-pros") and serve them with tailor made tools each with different dev paths and complexity levels (yet having some similar interface elements to build familiarity and encourage upgrades).

Director mode can then be included in starter versions (for ease of use, fun experience etc) - esp if it doesn't add value to pro version... upgrading to pro should mean someone wants to do serious stuff with the product (hence the term "Pro"?).

Most commercial software is developed in modular fashion nowadays ("loose coupling" in IT language) and removing obsolete features should not necessarily be difficult or risky (from a stability viewpoint).

Trying to have a one-size-fits-all product will result in a functionally amorphous bloatware. e.g. Advanced users want more features/power but noobs / hobbyists want something simple to play around with. If you have one product, you have to keep asking "Who should we please?".

The sales numbers dont necessarily state the biz potential (i.e. you dont know how many ppl skipped buying the pro product due to certain limitations.) 

Cheers.

I mean things like C4D and Max half walkf and flythrough cameras that can be animated... so I don't see why we need to kill this mode. Does it get in your way that much?

If I was using standard and wanted to upgrade to Pro, I wouldn't exactly be amped that I was LOOSING a feature.

My opinion is that it should just stay there unless it becomes problmematic. LIke I said, there are probably some that enjoy this mode and taking it away may not hurt sales, but it'd just seem like a "mean" move. It indecates that "Real pros don't play games" or "real pros don't need to have this kind of fun feature."... I lol at the word "pro"

But really, I think it just should stay there if it's not getting in your way.

I didnt say get rid of director mode completely - am just arguing that it needs a new independent dev path and/or product (at least until avatars get some kind of artificial intelligence).

I have a bit of technical IT background (software engineering) and one thing I have noticed is that the introduction of new features can be constrained by the need to mirror them in other "modes". You can't have your cake and eat it... Needless to say, the mirror modes consume additional development resources that could be working on extra features (not to mention the increased dev costs).

Further, having multiple ways to accomplish acomplish a set of major tasks can introduce a certain level of complexity when it comes to maintenance (e.g. traceability mapping effort is def higher) - which commits more resources - increasing the duration between feature releases and limiting the number of viable new features that the dev team can possibly take up.

Makes me wonder.. what portion of the $200 license fee is contributed by the director mode? If the mode was scrapped would it be feasible for RL to offer more powerful features in pro (that in certain aspects rival or trump the Mayas and 3DS / C4Ds) and still pay the SAME $200 ($100 upgr) or even LOWER license fees?

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In some cases a bug in director mode may screw up the results in edit mode because the two share data. So removing director mode can increase the robustness of the system.

Many people have complained that iClone 4 has stability issues. I have noted the same. Perhaps its because (on certain aspects) it tries to be "everything to everyone"; easy and sophisticated at the same time?

Compare with Moviestorm who chose one clear path (easy and not sophisticated) and apparently better movies (storywise - not necessarily aestheicwise) get made in that product. 

With iClone "Live-direct" as a different entry level product, RL has the potential to offer something at Moviestorm level, and this simplifies their technical model - allowing them to add more power to iClone Pro without worrying too much about scaring away the hobbyists, academics etc who dont neceassarily want to use the product for commercial purposes.

Everyone wins in the long run.

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PS: Am not saying turn iClone into another Maya or 3DS Max etc.. because that would kill the unique premise that iClone offers - i.e. non-technical, accelerated production of films (and VFx) in a virtual environment.

Am thinking the Pro version should focus on "smart-simple" (simple for TIME & RESOURCE SAVING purpose) and not necessarily simple-simple (i.e. simple for fun/usability purpose); whilst retaining the focus on making movies as it currently does (i.e. users dont have to be artists or animators - they can outsource what they need).

Trying to think of an illustration.. hmmm.. ok here goes,,, Microsoft users.. pls compare MS Office vs MS Works. Or Wordpard vs MS word.. or Excel vs Windows Calc (assuming you add up a set of numbers) to get a (somewhat rough/hazy) feel of what I have in mind.

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Another thing about director mode... could it be the reason iCloners dont have as many properly made movies as Moviestorm? I haven't used moviestorm yet but it seems like the users of that product develop better movies than icloners - yet iClone is a more technically superior product.

I know iclone offers limited number of free assets to start with but I dont see that holding back a determined filmmaker (you can customize the story to fit what you are working with).

Cheers!

:-D

My point exactly... Is "Director Mode" obsolete?

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Can Peter (RL) or anyone in the know shed some light on what exactly the benefits of director mode are?

Why is the feature there if people don't have much use for it?

Is it there simply because it was there from the very beginning - despite "evidence" that it doesn't add much value to the iClone film making process (perhaps it actually confuses users)?

In my case, it depends upon a particular Project's workflow.

It's useful in my current Project for setting-up a complex Scene, to have Cam follow Character in Director Mode using just the W Key, Recorded, enabling me to shift Props to see what the final result will look like. Might eventually have the Character following a Path instead or at least for part of the Clip.

There are several ways to skin a cat

You wrote...

Hmm.. I cant help but notice that your profile says you have been a member of this forum since 2/12/2009, with 344 visits ( a regular?), and have made 64posts. Wow and you are still a beginner? 

Hmmm.. This kinda reinforces my point about the need to have multiple iClone products each serving a different category of user needs.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, not another Moviestorm versus iClone debate!

iClone5 does include a variety of Post Effects including Lens Blur. More effects may be added later.