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By hkhaneveer - 5 Years Ago
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I'm new to all this, but I'm wondering why importing DAZ characters is such a big thing for CC3? After all, CC3 is basically a tool for creating characters, as opposed to having to buy them individually a la DAZ, right? I get why taking advantage of all those DAZ clothing and hair assets is very attractive, but not the characters. What's the advantage?
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By jeffkirkland - 5 Years Ago
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Attractive to me because I’m a long-time DAZ user, And have hundreds of gigabytes of characters, clothing and props. I probably wouldn’t use iClone if I had to start again and not bring assets across.
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By will2power71 - 5 Years Ago
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Mostly, I think it's because DAZ has the largest library of pre-built assets available. A lot of users want to animate the characters they've created in DAZ, but DAZ Studio isn't the best application when it comes to being a hobbyist and budding animator. So most DAZ users were sitting there with an impressive library of chracters, props and other assets that they couldn't use for animation. Being able to port them to CC3 makes it possible for them to bring their characters to life, so to speak --at least that's the way I see it. I'm sitting on top of a DAZ runtime that's about 500GB in size that have all kinds of figures that I have amassed over the years. People would not want to just leave all that behind so the best option is to provide a path for them to get the shapes into iClone where it's easy to animate.
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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will2power71 (7/26/2020)
Mostly, I think it's because DAZ has the largest library of pre-built assets available. A lot of users want to animate the characters they've created in DAZ, but DAZ Studio isn't the best application when it comes to being a hobbyist and budding animator. So most DAZ users were sitting there with an impressive library of chracters, props and other assets that they couldn't use for animation. Being able to port them to CC3 makes it possible for them to bring their characters to life, so to speak --at least that's the way I see it. I'm sitting on top of a DAZ runtime that's about 500GB in size that have all kinds of figures that I have amassed over the years. People would not want to just leave all that behind so the best option is to provide a path for them to get the shapes into iClone where it's easy to animate.
Quoted for complete agreement. 👍
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By hkhaneveer - 5 Years Ago
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Well, that kinda makes sense... since I don't use iClone, it doesn't make sense for me. For me, CC3 is about creating characters, I'm not even going to render anything in CC3.
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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Even if you Dont use Iclone,CC3 pipeline is a Great way to leverage ALL Generations of your Daz Characters Shapes,clothing & Skin textures and use them in other applications. I animate in Iclone because DAZ studio has no IK Foot/floor contact system, A broken timeline & key frame editor that wont save morph data after you close a session an inferior Facial/lipsynch animation tool ,unless you buy a $200 Iphone based plugin that only works with ONE gneration of Daz Character (G-8) Daz just released a bunch of "bridge" plugins to send Genesis 3/8 Character rigs over to Autodesk 3DMax ,Maya, Maxon C4D,and Blender. But the plugins dont send over animation Data and the Blender plugin creates Massive Blender scene files that bloat up to as much as 18 Gigabytes!! for ONE Genesis 8 Female without any animation Data. I recently sent this converted Daz Character from CC3 over to Blender 2.8 with a 900 frame animation and my Blender scene file is only 500 megabytes.
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By wendyluvscatz - 5 Years Ago
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so you can use CC3 by itself?
I never really figured out all the dependencies as previous stuff needed iClone
I am on iC6 pipeline and a low income so fully upgrading to 7 even on sale pretty much impossible for me at least until the economy picks up (I lost 30K🙀)
but if CC3 is standalone I could plausibly use it with Carrara, UE4 and other apps
I export a lot of my iC6 stuffs to Carrara for Octane anyway
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By animagic - 5 Years Ago
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wendyluvscatz (7/27/2020)
so you can use CC3 by itself?
I never really figured out all the dependencies as previous stuff needed iClone
I am on iC6 pipeline and a low income so fully upgrading to 7 even on sale pretty much impossible for me at least until the economy picks up (I lost 30K🙀)
but if CC3 is standalone I could plausibly use it with Carrara, UE4 and other apps
I export a lot of my iC6 stuffs to Carrara for Octane anyway
CC3 Pipeline became a standalone character creator with direct export options to various target applications. This was to make it attractive for game developers.
One thing though, CC3 characters are not compatible with iClone 6, but if you do your stuff elsewhere that would not matter.
To purchase: https://www.reallusion.com/store/product.html?l=1&p=cc.
More information: https://www.reallusion.com/character-creator/default.html.
Wendy, I hope your economic prospects improve!
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By Peter (RL) - 5 Years Ago
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wendyluvscatz (7/27/2020)
so you can use CC3 by itself?
I never really figured out all the dependencies as previous stuff needed iClone
I am on iC6 pipeline and a low income so fully upgrading to 7 even on sale pretty much impossible for me at least until the economy picks up (I lost 30K🙀)
but if CC3 is standalone I could plausibly use it with Carrara, UE4 and other apps
I export a lot of my iC6 stuffs to Carrara for Octane anyway
Hi Wendy
Yes Character Creator 3 Pipeline is a standalone product with full export capability (you don't need 3DXchange).
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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Hi Wendy, If you have CC3 pipeline ( which I strongly reccommend) you could actually keep your older 6.5 for creating/saving imotion files and attach any Imotion or imotion+ file to any CC3 Avatar during the export process from CC3. There are export presets in CC3 for the major 3DCC apps & engines like MAya C4D Blender unity UE4, I used the Blender preset for the animation I posed up thread I cannot offer any advice on going from CC3 to Carrarra. You wont be able to use any of the CC3 avatars in version 6.5 but you can save them locally as converted CC3 content in your CC3 libraies including clothing ,shapes skins and hairs from genesis 1,2,4,8. or even imported custom clothing meshes as I do since I develop my own. The CC3 cloth rigging tools are far better than the Daz tools Like you,I still have version 6.5 pipeline installed on my older PC but I did upgrade to the base version of 7.x on my new tower During the 50 percent off 'Covid 19 " sale that ended last month This allows me to use my converted Daz people directly in iclone and use the Digtal human shaders clothing and hairs and improved animation tools in version 7.x.
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By wendyluvscatz - 5 Years Ago
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thanks all 😻
next sale if I have money I will look into it as I largely load imotion and imotion plus files on my 3DX6 imports then export them to Carrara and UE4 to render anyway
I do the occasional quick animation in iC6 too but in theory the CC3 FBX imports should also import as nonstandard characters in 3DX6 too for that
Carrara is pretty good at loading FBX just blendshapes not supported but I could recreate them with obj morphs and it has its own mimic importer that can use Carrara nonlinear animation of morphs for visemes, not unlike expression editor
Poser is a possibility there too, I import iAvatars into that with blendshapes
iC7 may be eventually on the cards I just cannot afford it all at once.
After all I want Cartoon Animator too and so many other things ...
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By hkhaneveer - 5 Years Ago
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Well, that's pretty impressive, but still, without having invested in DAZ already, this doesn't motivate to do so. At this point I'm not making animations, I'm making renders for comic projects, and DAZ seems like pretty much just another headache and expense. Good to know that their export to Blender utility is messed up, though.
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By hkhaneveer - 5 Years Ago
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wendyluvscatz (7/27/2020)
thanks all 😻
next sale if I have money I will look into it as I largely load imotion and imotion plus files on my 3DX6 imports then export them to Carrara and UE4 to render anyway
I do the occasional quick animation in iC6 too but in theory the CC3 FBX imports should also import as nonstandard characters in 3DX6 too for that
Carrara is pretty good at loading FBX just blendshapes not supported but I could recreate them with obj morphs and it has its own mimic importer that can use Carrara nonlinear animation of morphs for visemes, not unlike expression editor
Poser is a possibility there too, I import iAvatars into that with blendshapes
iC7 may be eventually on the cards I just cannot afford it all at once.
After all I want Cartoon Animator too and so many other things ...
The dependencies in the Reallusion universe are pretty confusing. Apparently a pieced of hair tagged for iClone 5+ cannot be loaded into CC3 pipeline, only into in iClone. All the export nonsense is terrible, also. I like a lot of things about CC3, but the business model feels a lot like a scam sometimes- very basic utilities are expensive additional programs, parts of the system don't like each other, and a surcharge for 'export' versions of assets are very nickle-and-dime approaches to extracting money from the end user. It can be quite difficult to tell which version of a product works with software you already bought from RL, or how many more things you will have to buy to make a new product actually perform its expected function. All this makes me reluctant to get further into RL than I already am. I would really encourage the developers to spend some effort fixing problems with what they've already sold us before further multiplying the number of products.
With a bigger budget, no doubt I would care less about this, and I understand the people without a big budget are not the target of most business models, but I will say that RL isn't making it any easier to make my budget bigger, by getting things done.
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By lollosone - 5 Years Ago
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hkhaneveer (7/25/2020)
I'm new to all this, but I'm wondering why importing DAZ characters is such a big thing for CC3? After all, CC3 is basically a tool for creating characters, as opposed to having to buy them individually a la DAZ, right? I get why taking advantage of all those DAZ clothing and hair assets is very attractive, but not the characters. What's the advantage?
Simple: CC3 is made to create characters, but you need clothing and hair too; as such, you can use the wealth of figures and morphs, on top of clothing and hair, made by DAZ.
Keep in mind that if you are good at using maya or blender, you do very little work in CC3; since most of your workflow is done in your other 3d app; while for people that are not artists; using pre-made content as starting point help to get where they want to get.
Imagine users coming from Daz studio, where they made a ton of content and variants of the base genesis models... they can import in CC3 all their old work and use the app. That is why for some, it is a big thing.
I can blame CC3 for not being very integrated with Daz Studio to be honest; it would be great to have a "send to CC3" button in DS; so you don't have to use transformer (also you are limited in what you can import; most of what I imported is not something you just import and use; but takes a lot of time to be adapted to CC3)
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By chris9890 - 5 Years Ago
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Hi All, great info, seems like CC3 is great tool for me to replace Daz, good to know it's also easy to export asset to UE4, unity and blender as well.
Sorry I have to ask my question here, I started a topic with my question but it was ignored
So I haven't started using CC3 yet, but had my eyes on it for a while, I'm a Daz user and currently looking for an alter tool to replace it(the poorly designed animation system and broken IRay render really made me pull hairs everyday)I'm interested in CC3, Icone, headshot and SkinGen, seem like with 4 of these, I can duplicate most of my work in DAZ and then make my game in UE4. But since 80% of my projects will focus on animated short clips and 3D art, so I hope with these 4 apps, I will able to accomplish that, how big of a scene I can hope to create with I7 5820k, 16G and a RTX 2060? for example, would a scene contain 5 high ploygon & high res texture models in an indoor environment to much for CC3? and is Iray render plug in less buggy than Daz?
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By lollosone - 5 Years Ago
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chris9890 (7/29/2020)
Hi All, great info, seems like CC3 is great tool for me to replace Daz, good to know it's also easy to export asset to UE4, unity and blender as well.
Sorry I have to ask my question here, I started a topic with my question but it was ignored
So I haven't started using CC3 yet, but had my eyes on it for a while, I'm a Daz user and currently looking for an alter tool to replace it(the poorly designed animation system and broken IRay render really made me pull hairs everyday)I'm interested in CC3, Icone, headshot and SkinGen, seem like with 4 of these, I can duplicate most of my work in DAZ and then make my game in UE4. But since 80% of my projects will focus on animated short clips and 3D art, so I hope with these 4 apps, I will able to accomplish that, how big of a scene I can hope to create with I7 5820k, 16G and a RTX 2060? for example, would a scene contain 5 high ploygon & high res texture models in an indoor environment to much for CC3? and is Iray render plug in less buggy than Daz?
I would not say that it replace DAZ Studio; (DAZ is the company that make the software DAZ Studio); CC3 is an app that allow you to create characters; in a more focused way; DAZ studio is more of a generic tool for posing, rendering and animating figures made by DAZ (or your own, if you rig them).
They can co-exist in different areas of a pipeline :)
Also CC3 is pretty heavy on hardware usage so you want to work on one character at time probably. CC3 is not a composing app; it is more of a creation tool for characters. For composing scenes or animations, I think there are other tools that are better suited for the job; or you can just move to Blender or Maya.
As far as export, you can export from DAZ in Unity and Unreal too; although you need to have more knowledge about what you are doing. The advantage is that you get a character with all the morphs for the facial expressions that are exposed directly in Unity or Unreal, while exporting from CC3 will give you the single modifiers for expressions, so if you made expressions blendshapes, you won't get those imported sadly, and have to change the single blendshape parameters in the 3d engine.
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By chris9890 - 5 Years Ago
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lollosone (7/29/2020)
chris9890 (7/29/2020)
Hi All, great info, seems like CC3 is great tool for me to replace Daz, good to know it's also easy to export asset to UE4, unity and blender as well.
Sorry I have to ask my question here, I started a topic with my question but it was ignored
So I haven't started using CC3 yet, but had my eyes on it for a while, I'm a Daz user and currently looking for an alter tool to replace it(the poorly designed animation system and broken IRay render really made me pull hairs everyday)I'm interested in CC3, Icone, headshot and SkinGen, seem like with 4 of these, I can duplicate most of my work in DAZ and then make my game in UE4. But since 80% of my projects will focus on animated short clips and 3D art, so I hope with these 4 apps, I will able to accomplish that, how big of a scene I can hope to create with I7 5820k, 16G and a RTX 2060? for example, would a scene contain 5 high ploygon & high res texture models in an indoor environment to much for CC3? and is Iray render plug in less buggy than Daz? I would not say that it replace DAZ Studio; (DAZ is the company that make the software DAZ Studio); CC3 is an app that allow you to create characters; in a more focused way; DAZ studio is more of a generic tool for posing, rendering and animating figures made by DAZ (or your own, if you rig them). They can co-exist in different areas of a pipeline :) Also CC3 is pretty heavy on hardware usage so you want to work on one character at time probably. CC3 is not a composing app; it is more of a creation tool for characters. For composing scenes or animations, I think there are other tools that are better suited for the job; or you can just move to Blender or Maya. As far as export, you can export from DAZ in Unity and Unreal too; although you need to have more knowledge about what you are doing. The advantage is that you get a character with all the morphs for the facial expressions that are exposed directly in Unity or Unreal, while exporting from CC3 will give you the single modifiers for expressions, so if you made expressions blendshapes, you won't get those imported sadly, and have to change the single blendshape parameters in the 3d engine.
Thanks for your comment, I normally don't use preset figures made by Daz, I usually morph and customize my own character, that's where I think CC3 can be related. But I also do tons rigging, animation(Daz's aniMate is very broken) and posing and then deploy 3-5 characters on a scene and render it with Daz's Iray. This is also an area I think Icone can fill in. To Daz's credit, it did allow me to do these tasks without unitizing other tools, but most of its features are broken on so many lvls. That's why I'm considering CC3, Icone and Iray plug in. I know I can always export them to a heavier and more polished tool such as Maya & blender, but the whole point for me to use Daz and maybe CC3 is that I don't have to create my own skeleton & skin, was never great at that, and then most exported assets from Daz to blender and UE4 always had mesh/texture/morph problems, too much to troubleshoot.
So if CC3 can't handle 3-5 characters & a high poloy background, it probably won't replace Daz. thanks for your input
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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Hi , CC3 is only for creating&clothing Characters with the intention of export either to Iclone or some Major 3DCC or game engine. You do NOT animate in Character creator, you can pose and test render but the notion of loading several characters into CC3 and rendering with Iray is a misunderstandin of the program's purpose.. If you really want superior Character animation tools you will need Iclone as well as CC3 pipeline IMHO unless you plan to export from CC3 to Maya or Blender render etc and animate the rigs in those apps I animate in Iclone and export to Blender for rendering.
Also, Iray is a brute force path tracer originally designed for Arch-vis stills that requires a fairly high specced NVIDIA card an even so it is not really suitable for animation, as Many here in the Iclone community have discovered. However ,in Daz studio, your problem is not really Iray per say but it is the undeniable fact the latest Daz genesis models have become bloatware behemoths and even Daz studio's internal support system is having trouble handling all of the active JMC's, Jcj's and HD morphs,4K texture maps etc. Daz recently released several "bridge"plugins for Autodesk Max,Maya & C4D and Blender and created new forums for each of the programs. The number one complaint, in every forum, is the Massive 12-19 gigabyte FBX files that the Daz bridge exports . Why??.. This is because all of those morphs, that are effectively live streamed from your Daz Data folder when working in Daz studio, must be exported along with the basic FBX rig to emulated the functionalty of the genesis figures in another program. Daz is loath to admit that Genesis is not really usable ouside of the Daz studio if you export all of the underlying support Data that it uses in Daz studio. which is Why Reallusion uses Shape projection and UV re-mapping to convert Daz Characters into Native CC3/Iclone Avatars.
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By ultimativity - 5 Years Ago
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I previously used a pipeline consisting of FaceGen>Daz>iClone because I had lots of clothing and hair from Daz which was far superior to CC content. Also, Daz had many more morphs available.
However, with the new updates this year, iClone has made significant progress in the morphs department, as well as in the skin department. iClone still does not have decent beards but those imported from Daz, do not conform to the character's expressions or speech, so no sense importing them from Daz.
I just purchased the CC 4-in-1 bundle for Ultimate digital humans (the new base). I expect to be able to make all my characters inside iClone now.
As far as iRay, iClone has a much better rendering solution in that you can select the items that do not need to be rendered again and render the changed parts of your scene. So, I would not even think of going back to Daz to render. As you note, trying to animate in Daz is a lost cause and iClone beats Daz, no contest.
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By animagic - 5 Years Ago
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ultimativity (8/1/2020)
However, with the new updates this year, iClone has made significant progress in the morphs department, as well as in the skin department. iClone still does not have decent beards but those imported from Daz, do not conform to the character's expressions or speech, so no sense importing them from Daz.
I believe improved beards are on the menu later this year.
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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It is possbible to have conforming beards that follow the characters jaw movement For the CC3 Character in this video I used a really old Daz beard( 18 years ??) IIRC I had to convert it to a prop in Daz Studio and reimport it and convert it to a full body conformer before sending the Genesis Character to CC3 via the transformer tool
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By ultimativity - 5 Years Ago
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Wow. What is a full body conformer in Daz?
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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ultimativity (8/3/2020)
Wow. What is a full body conformer in Daz?
Full body is one of the template options in the daz cloth rigging transfer utility.
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By t1ber1us1 - 5 Years Ago
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animagic (8/1/2020)
ultimativity (8/1/2020)
However, with the new updates this year, iClone has made significant progress in the morphs department, as well as in the skin department. iClone still does not have decent beards but those imported from Daz, do not conform to the character's expressions or speech, so no sense importing them from Daz.I believe improved beards are on the menu later this year.
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By justaviking - 5 Years Ago
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hkhaneveer (7/27/2020)
... I don't use iClone, it doesn't make sense for me...
hkhaneveer (7/27/2020)
...At this point I'm not making animations, I'm making renders for comic projects...
Consider using iClone to create your comic projects. Several of us have used it for that purpose. It provides a lot of power, flexibility, and freedom when working with your 3D scenes, even if your end goal is a "graphic novel."
Here's my humble "comic." I used "Comic Life" to create the text bubbles. Others have done much nicer work with more detailed environments and better lighting.
Either way, good luck and have fun.
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By animagic - 5 Years Ago
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Any character improvements will always be for CC3 as that is now the standard character for CC and iClone. The new SkinGen already gives much better beard results although they are not very voluminous beards.
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By Auroratrek - 5 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (7/26/2020)
will2power71 (7/26/2020)
Mostly, I think it's because DAZ has the largest library of pre-built assets available. A lot of users want to animate the characters they've created in DAZ, but DAZ Studio isn't the best application when it comes to being a hobbyist and budding animator. So most DAZ users were sitting there with an impressive library of chracters, props and other assets that they couldn't use for animation. Being able to port them to CC3 makes it possible for them to bring their characters to life, so to speak --at least that's the way I see it. I'm sitting on top of a DAZ runtime that's about 500GB in size that have all kinds of figures that I have amassed over the years. People would not want to just leave all that behind so the best option is to provide a path for them to get the shapes into iClone where it's easy to animate. Quoted for complete agreement. 👍
I have a ton of Daz assets as well, and have just begun seriously exploring a Daz/CC3/iClone/C4D workflow. (I began this discussion with AutoDidact over at Daz.) I was really quite impressed with how well the Daz figures--even V4--port over to CC3, however I'm having a lot of trouble with porting over clothing since I get a lot of "taffy-pulling" mesh melding between pant legs and shoes/boots, I suspect because the legs are too close together in the V4 T-Pose. I read something about putting V4 (in Daz) in an A-Pose rather than T-Pose, but it seems like Reallusion doesn't have an A-Pose preset for V4(?)
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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Hi Tim, As you my know I create my own clothing for the Daz genesis figures. When I began importing a Daz figure into CC3, dressed in one of my clothing peices, I initially ran the transfer skin weights function in CC3 and got the "taffy pulling" bewteen the thighs on pants. The problem stopped when I just left the clothing as is after import as it seems to just copy the original Daz weighting it would seem to me that an FBX imported Daz figure ,already wearing Daz conformer does not need an additional skin weight transfer or even conforming in CC3. so if you are doing any of that after import try a dressed character without doing so.
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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Double post deleted.
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By Auroratrek - 5 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (8/6/2020)
Hi Tim, As you my know I create my own clothing for the Daz genesis figures. When I began importing a Daz figure into CC3, dressed in one of my clothing peices, I initially ran the transfer skin weights function in CC3 and got the "taffy pulling" bewteen the thighs on pants. The problem stopped when I just left the clothing as is after import as it seems to just copy the original Daz weighting it would seem to me that an FBX imported Daz figure ,already wearing Daz conformer does not need an additional skin weight transfer or even conforming in CC3. so if you are doing any of that after import try a dressed character without doing so.
Thanks, AD! That was the key to stop the "taffy." In the process I also discovered that I had my export settings from Daz wrong, so between the two changes, a pair of boots I'd been banging my head against the wall over came in beautifully. Wow, I think CC3/iClone is quickly becoming my favorite application--I'm really impressed!
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By AutoDidact - 5 Years Ago
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Glad you got it figured out Tim. Indeed after 6 years of working on "Galactus Rising" with my old Daz studio .obj/MDD to C4D pipeline, it took me a while to Break myself out of my entrenched habits. For me the biggest factor in my desire to move all Character animation tasks to Iclone was the lipsync/Facial animation options. All of the lipsync options for Daz studio are either very Old(mimic pro3) or produce utter crap results and limited to only the G8 figures(Anilip2) And then there is the third party Iphone face capture plugin( Face mojo) which is very good but it costs $200 USD and again limited to the G8 figures. Reallusion is advancing rapidly in the areas I care about while Daz is stagnating with with useless export plugins that only works with their G3/8 figures and does not even support animation transfer.
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By Auroratrek - 5 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (8/7/2020)
Glad you got it figured out Tim. Indeed after 6 years of working on "Galactus Rising" with my old Daz studio .obj/MDD to C4D pipeline, it took me a while to Break myself out of my entrenched habits. For me the biggest factor in my desire to move all Character animation tasks to Iclone was the lipsync/Facial animation options. All of the lipsync options for Daz studio are either very Old(mimic pro3) or produce utter crap results and limited to only the G8 figures(Anilip2) And then there is the third party Iphone face capture plugin( Face mojo) which is very good but it costs $200 USD and again limited to the G8 figures. Reallusion is advancing rapidly in the areas I care about while Daz is stagnating with with useless export plugins that only works with their G3/8 figures and does not even support animation transfer.
Yes, old habits--and workflows--are hard to break, but I have to say I'm confident (if not excited) for the first time in a long time that I can finally shake off these zombie apps like Mimic and Poser and actually use a supported suite of tools! Thanks again for you help and advice--I'm sure I'll have more questions as I dig deeper into this!
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