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By toystorylab - 5 Years Ago
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Something changed in iClone??
Can't rotate wheels on timeline anymore.
When adding number x-rotation in modify panel, rotation flips at 360 to zero.
I remember having this issue a long time ago, no idea how it was solved...
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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Oh boy, don't tell. I just woke up. Is that the same issue as with the bike? (I have not had a chance to look at it... Let me check..)
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By urbanlamb - 5 Years Ago
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okay just wizzing by but usually this is due to gimbal lock. so if you rotate the up facing axis slightly like 5 degrees or so its possible you can avoid the gimbal lock. (I dont knowif that makes sense.. but anyhow that's likely what is happening. )
soo here is actually its a pretty good tutorial explaining it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdZT9C-pOLs
If I experience this in software that's what i do .. find the one that its all rotating around and change that ever so slightly then it might not lock.
*runs away*
I avoid these forums now but in this case since i know this is likely the answer i will post once in like 10 years LOL
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By toystorylab - 5 Years Ago
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4u2ges (5/25/2020)
Oh boy, don't tell. I just woke up. Is that the same issue as with the bike? (I have not had a chance to look at it... Let me check..)
Yeah, same problem, wanted to check with another vehicle...
No need to hurry! As you just woke up, bedtime is coming soon here :D
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By toystorylab - 5 Years Ago
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urbanlamb (5/25/2020)
okay just wizzing by but usually this is due to gimbal lock. so if you rotate the up facing axis slightly like 5 degrees or so its possible you can avoid the gimbal lock. (I dont knowif that makes sense.. but anyhow that's likely what is happening. ) soo here is actually its a pretty good tutorial explaining it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdZT9C-pOLsIf I experience this in software that's what i do .. find the one that its all rotating around and change that ever so slightly then it might not lock. *runs away* I avoid these forums now but in this case since i know this is likely the answer i will post once in like 10 years LOL
Thanx for chimming in...
That tutorial is way above my way of understanding :blush:
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By urbanlamb - 5 Years Ago
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just rotate the wheel and try to figure out what its rotating around. Then take that axis its rotating around and change that a bit .. and try to make the wheel go around. The tutorial has you basically changing to another axis and then doing it. When i make stuff for iclone I always make the main axis a bit off kilter then it works (more or less). If the thing is jet straight etc etc when it gets close to the lock it basically springs back so if you move that other axis it might.. might work LOL.
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By toystorylab - 5 Years Ago
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urbanlamb (5/25/2020)
just rotate the wheel and try to figure out what its rotating around. Then take that axis its rotating around and change that a bit .. and try to make the wheel go around. The tutorial has you basically changing to another axis and then doing it. When i make stuff for iclone I always make the main axis a bit off kilter then it works (more or less). If the thing is jet straight etc etc when it gets close to the lock it basically springs back so if you move that other axis it might.. might work LOL.
Thanx again for trying to help!
Fiddled around a bit, changed z/y axis slightly, did not work, as far I did correctly what you meant :blush:
Will be something to investigate further tomorrow, as I have to go home (no iClone, nor PC at home ) now...
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By urbanlamb - 5 Years Ago
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yeah that's what i meant might need to rotate more .. but of course the other way is to just seperate the wheels from the bike part and have them each its own object and should be fine. However that's what is going on with them when they are a part of something else it needs to twirl around the right axis so it doesnt lock and that axis wont necessarily be the one the rest of the bike is on. (think like an axle)
Anyhow those are my ideas LOL. I dont think it has anything to do with iclone its just the way the bike is built where the wheels are children of the main bike.
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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At this point I can confirm it is a new iClone bug.
Whenever you import FBX object to iClone directly (not through 3DX), which has more than one node under the root, those nodes loose the ability to rotate properly.
There is no problem importing from 3DX, nor if you import a single object directly into iClone.
There is an easy way to confirm whether object has a rotation problem.
If you see Rotation order is grayed out, then object would not rotate properly:
The only way to fix it, is to set pivot to 0,0,0 for the faulty object, take it to Blender (through 3DX), reset Location/Rotation for root and object itself, un-parent from root, delete root, set correct pivot for the object, export, import to iClone.
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By urbanlamb - 5 Years Ago
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Yeah that's not a bug that is the way euler rotations works. But this is why I dont post. What you did was change to a different axis to avoid gimbal lock. That is the solution to change the rotational axis of the wheels to avoid the lock since in this guys model the wheels are parented to the bike and not seperate. This is not a bug that's how euler rotation works and iclone lacks this ability to change the axis inside their software (that i'm aware of unless is something new and i just model outside iclone). So the only way to fix is to change it like the guy did in the video. :)
What you did was made the wheels seperate objects inside blender and then change the rotational axis so that the wheels can rotate without locking and then reimport back into iclone. So you changed how the model works.
*slinks back into the shadows*
Anyhow glad you solved your gimbal lock problem whatever it was lol. I dont think i would blame iclone for a gimbal lock problem ^^.
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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Actually I did not separate wheels inside the Blender. Whenever you import FBX with multiple props attached to an empty root it is asking if you want to separate them. Which it does and it's still does not work.
So yes, it is a bug. It was fixed before, when 3DX had that same problem. Hopefully it'll be fixed for the direct FBX import.
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By toystorylab - 5 Years Ago
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urbanlamb (5/25/2020)
but of course the other way is to just seperate the wheels from the bike part and have them each its own object and should be fine.
Hm, don't know if you mean "detach" the wheels from the bike, but that made no difference...
Anyway, as I am no tech guy at all, I am glad 4u2ges made it work now.
And I also think this is a bug, that appeared a long time ago and now raised again.
Yesterday I imported that "Hard Tailed Rat" bike (OBJ) via iClone due to automatically "sub-propping".
The problem occured...
Now I imported the "Hard Tailed Rat" bike (OBJ) via 3DX and the wheels behave normal...
Thanx for trying to help anyway!
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By urbanlamb - 5 Years Ago
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4u2ges (5/26/2020)
Actually I did not separate wheels inside the Blender. Whenever you import FBX with multiple props attached to an empty root it is asking if you want to separate them. Which it does and it's still does not work.
So yes, it is a bug. It was fixed before, when 3DX had that same problem. Hopefully it'll be fixed for the direct FBX import.
ah okay that makes sense. I was scratching me head. Because the thing needs bones to recognize so you can rotate things on their own. So there is two ways to do it.. put bones in inside blender or leave everything seperate and 3dexchange puts the bones in. So that's the bug. The 3dexchange is not putting the bones in so you can seperately move things.
Now i get it ^^
see me i put all the bones in inside blender and avoid that issue so would never see it.
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By urbanlamb - 5 Years Ago
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toystorylab (5/26/2020)
urbanlamb (5/25/2020)
but of course the other way is to just seperate the wheels from the bike part and have them each its own object and should be fine. Hm, don't know if you mean "detach" the wheels from the bike, but that made no difference... Now I imported the "Hard Tailed Rat" bike (OBJ) via 3DX and the wheels behave normal... Thanx for trying to help anyway!
since the 3dexchange is not recognizing things as it should yes if you chop up the bike into the parts you need and then import all the parts seperately into iclone and put it together it will work as a workaround since it seems 3dexchange has stopped putting in bones if you tell it to.
Guess I should add since this all started with the unable to do the 360 thing. Once the object has been seperated and each piece has now a bone if it starts to do that go and change the rotational axis (which can be done inside iclone) because that is gimbal lock and the way around that is to simply change the axis of rotation and then it wont lock. (since iclone is putting them in as root nodes its going to be jet straight )
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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FYI
As per Molly from RL (at FT here) there is a workaround for now (you have to have a Curve Editor plugin):
- Right mouse click on the prop at the stage (or transform track at the timeline) and then Curve Editor > Convert to Curve Data. Prop can now be animated beyond 360 degrees for rotation.
- If Rotation Order selection in Animation menu is still not available, select any other item on stage and then select back the converted prop. Rotation order in now editable.
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By toystorylab - 5 Years Ago
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@ 4u2ges
Thanx for info! ;)
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By owenssj - 5 Years Ago
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Sorry to here all the "Trouble" with Reallusion/IClone , Rotation, I Still use Iclone 4 and Icone5, And Transfer it into IClone 7.I make all the adjustments, and Rotations before adding it to I-7. If your trying to Use Pre-Props (Rotation) On the Props You Downloaded, It Does Not Always Work!!! Remember Reallusion is out to Make Money, Sometimes they get ahead of themselves. I do not Know if you Can Still Get I-4 and I-5 If you can, It Works Great.!, Reallusion Still has a Lot Of Bugs in their System .Here Lately, Their having Problems With Content Uploader. Take Care,
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By urbanlamb - 5 Years Ago
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They way the 3dexchange works is that normally when you tell it to keep things seperate that translates into "put in a bone for each seperate piece". Once upon a time lonng ago the 3dexchange did not seperate things it was an added feature. But every once and awhile they forget about the feature and so need to put it back in that's basically what this amounts to. So since static props that were meant for set dressings and never meant to move are just that static there is no way of knowing how they are constructed. If its part of a continuous mesh it can't seperate the thing logically no matter what method your using. If its something like a car or a bike wheels etc are seperate often created from primitives and just customized.
soo what is going on is due to loss of a feature that was added. Hopefully they will fix it. But for now the solution is to break up the model and import pieces seperately so that a bone is added for each piece and then reassemble it inside iclone or use several copies of the model and change the rotation of the entire model and hide the extra bits which is awkward and takes up tons of memory real estate so probably not a good way. If you can't break it up because its just one continuous mesh then no method will work cause it can only work on things that are made up of several independant parts to start with.
Anyhoo that is what is going on.
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