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By The Elliseran Modeller - 4 Years Ago
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I am using MD to create cloths for CC3 for my own use in illustrations. I have very little trouble bringing in tight fitting cloths and conforming them to my characters as per the picture below. They tend to then follow the character with little or no distortion. Sometimes some sculpting is required but as I usually export my character out from CC3 to use as the avatar in MD problems on tight fitting cloths are minimal pic 1 below.
The problem arises with items that are not tight fitting such as cloaks as seen in the pic 2 below. They come in OK but then seem to attach themselves to all kinds of bones pic 3. I use 'cloak' on import but find the cloth is even attached to fingers. Any tutorials likely on using MD to create cloths for CC3 likely? I have seen the additional purchase tutorials attached to the Street Clothiung package in the store but that first requires the $199 purchase of the package and then refers to Maya use. Maya at a thousand plus dollars is simply out of the range of most single users. Anyway any ideas guys?
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By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
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It's not the modeling per se (which is why using something else won't help) but how it's weighted. This is true no matter how the clothing was constructed.
You need to learn to use the weighting tools inside of CC3 -- for some items it will be a laborious process. Also, to complicate matters, physics weighting plays an important role. In this particular case, you'd be better off bringing this item in as an accessory, and then creating a good physics map for it (you really only need it anchored on the head). But, again, you need to learn all about those tools. Read the manual, start learning, and in a few months you ought to be able to get up to speed.
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By The Elliseran Modeller - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks. Good advise and helpful in pointing me in the right direction. Now I have something to work at.
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By Bassline303 - 4 Years Ago
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here is a interesting video that shows how to import Animated MD Cloth to IClone via Morph Targets. (at 5.min)
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By The Elliseran Modeller - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks Baseline303
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By carlo1981 - 4 Years Ago
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hello Guys, i have a similair problem from Blender coming.
Because Texture i need the Export from CC3, so i added the Cape as Assecoir into CC3, i gave this ( just Subdivided Plane) a Cloak Weight, simulate Collision, but nothing happend.
Is it just not able to make Capes or is it just a simple tick to pick ? Please Help.
Thanks.
p.s.: When i will Purchase i Clone7 i is this issue  away ?
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By carlo1981 - 4 Years Ago
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 i solved this, i just had to rotate the cape like a regular cloth/cape to Vertical.
Now its running perfect and i cant leave this going for food or somewehre, just sitting here and playing with cc3 its all i want in my life now
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By cynsegura - 3 Years Ago
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Hi Kelleytoons I know you have many videos. Did you get anyway easier to do skin weight for clothes coming from MD into cc3. I find super complicated to understand this topic. And I am creating clothes in MD and I would love they will be moving perfectly well. Topology of them are good. But I find super difficult to understand skim weight. Is it any good video to follow I find big problems on the arms with sleeves. Please let me know. Many thanks
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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If I were you, I would not even bother with skin/physics weight. You MD guys are lucky to have such a great simulation engine inside your app.
And a lot of times it is not worth wasting time in iClone/CC with weights, where sometimes it is not even possible to achieve any decent outcome (specially on complex/odd cloth).
I have recently done some basic studying in bringing simulations from MD to iClone: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost468229.aspx
It is very much possible with very small exceptions.
One problem, is cloth interaction with objects other than the avatar. In most cases it is something to sit down on.
I've learned that you can bring an object into MD as another avatar and have it interact with garments.
Here is a skirt simulated in MD while girl is sittings down and then cloth alembic animation is brought to iClone.
In this case the simulation is basic and very easy achievable in iClone itself. But as I said, for something more complex it would be a nightmare.
The other problem is, that the animation has to be complete before exporting character to MD. But this is indeed a limitation and not much can be done.
Even a slight change in character animation would require complete new cycle for generating a new cloth simulation in MD.
It is also known, that Reallusion is planning to add an MD simulation import into iClone as a standard routine, which would make it even easier.
If you are still willing to go the cloth weights root, then you probably need to post screenshots of your item, or even better to post the item itself.
Mike or someone else would be happy to help if possible 
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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@4u2ges
I have had the benefit of your experience and advice on this topic before on a thread a few months back and I agree with your first couple of sentences, (not that I don't agree with the rest). Mike has some wonderful tutorials on YouTube that I've watched several times, but even he said in one of them that weight mapping isn't an exact science. With my experience in MD over many years now, I find that MD for the most part is, at least for me. Of course it's an additional program specifically designed to do cloth simulations, so no iClone/CC3 bashing here. Mike is great in regards to weight mapping and physics in CC3 and iClone. Unfortunately for me, I never could get any consistent results with that technique after too many hours that I would be embarrassed to list on this forum. I am greatly anticipating the alembic import option that from what I hear, should be released this month. It's worth the wait for MD users. Especially since it's so close to being released. If it works as advertised, I'm also looking forward to importing some of my dForce clothing in Daz through the alembic process. I find that quite a bit of dForce content that I am not qualified to make, works great when imported to MD and exported to Cinema 4D, Blender, and even better, UE4. Thanks for coaching me along!
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By animagic - 3 Years Ago
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@MIDI3D: Don't feel too embarrassed. I have been using iClone for a long time and I still have trouble with cloth simulations and get inconsistent results. I'm sure I'm missing something here...
From recent discussions I have learned that you always need to start your character out in iClone in a neutral standing pose to let the cloth settle and then have the character do his/her business.
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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Unfortunately for me, I never could get any consistent results with that technique after too many hours that I would be embarrassed to list on this forum.
Not your fault and Animagic is right, there is nothing to be embarrassed about. RL uses a real-time physics engine (well, per-frame, but basically the same thing).
It was never intended to be a silver bullet for complex garments nor to be ideally resolving collision interactions. Not to mention it was not fully implemented as intended by NVIDIA.
Collision shapes for instance, could have been constructed with uneven capsules, which in turn would've given more accuracy. However, it is a 10 years old engine and RL should start looking into something modern for cloth physics.
MD on the other hand (as well as many others like Blender for instance) utilize full featured collision engine (self-mesh) which is slow, but a lot more accurate.
New Alembic support would be great, but again it would only provide a gateway for cloth simulations created outside of iClone, whereas I expect to see an overhaul inside of iClone.
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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@animagic:
That's absolutely correct. Personally, I give it a least 45 frames (or a second and a half), and in iClone as you already know, I have to double the frame count on the timeline. Sometimes I start with an A pose and other times with the T pose depending upon which program and /or version of character that I'm using like the DAZ Genesis characters. Thank you for being a squeaky wheel like me in support of adding the Alembic import feature. I remember you from a will2power71 Feedback Tracker post in 2017. Every little bit helps, and the little noise that we and many others have made over the years will finally pay off hopefully very soon! I'd like to think that collectively, we may have at least influenced the decision in some small way. Maybe not, but regardless, I seriously doubted that after this long, Reallusion would ever implement this at all. Although it's not a reality yet, I have seen the YouTube video and it looks great! I already have a massive library of MD Alembic content just waiting for the release. Thanks in advance to Peter and the rest of the RL team!
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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@4u2ges:
Just curious, what kind of an overhaul might you be expecting in iClone? Sounds exciting! We know that with the Alembic format, it can both send and receive more than just cloth simulations, Do you think that it might grow to include and import other physics based properties and simulations like fluids and particles like it already does in other programs, but in iClone?
I know that this question is better suited for the powers that be at RL, but I respect your opinion, and you have now afforded me the ability to think about many other possibilities!
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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I was rather generalizing as oppose to inviting RL to look into something specific.
I do understand that cloth simulation is probably the most time consuming part of any animation workflow from technical stand point.
And proper collision calculation, being at the heart of it, is still a bottleneck.
But modern CPUs and most importantly GPUs are not what they were 10 years ago and can handle whole lot more nowadays.
It is time to start looking into alternatives. Someone posted lately some interesting cloth simulation video (not sure if it was real-time or not). I cannot find it though.
I just think I should be able to grab any cloth item from marketplace and have it interact with the host the way it should be without cracking my head with weight maps and clumsy collision shapes.
It does not even have to be real-time. I can spare time for creating simulation inside iClone, instead of relying on third party tools to make one and only for garments created in those apps. No offense MD users
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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I'm all for simplicity and I would love for iClone/CC3 to be the only resources that I need. I like the idea of not having to rely on third party products. I really don't like having to know all of the programs, (and its plugins) that I use. Unfortunately, because I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I've had to invest my time, money and effort to get the look and results that I want. For the longest time, because of lack of Alembic import, I felt that I had to look elsewhere for cloth simulation, but I didn't want to lose out on what RL has been doing with iClone and CC. For the last 2 years with the advancements in CC3, all of us that own it and the supporting packages have the best tool in the business for character creation. If RL can continue to add features that allow me to abandon some of my current 3D programs, that would be great! Now that I've been using UE4 for over a year, that complicates things! You're a visionary. I always look forward to your feedback and ideas. Thank you!
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By animagic - 3 Years Ago
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I am not a clothing designer, but would it be possible to import CC clothing into MD and do the cloth simulation? I feel that it used to work a bit better in iClone, but now it's just time-consuming and frustrating.
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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😀 I was about to ask MIDI3D the same question. But I think it is not possible. Though it would have been great to have that option in MD, where you bring a mesh in and it is automatically getting converted to a garment based on UV, materials, etc...
On a side note I also tried Blender cloth simulation and imported into iClone. But as everything in Blender, learning curve is not a walk in the park. Maybe just need to spend more time with it.
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By Rampa - 3 Years Ago
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You can. I think you need version 9 or later though. "OBJ To Garment" in the file menu. It will also create patterns from the existing UV.
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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Oh, that is most interesting and very promising! I am not at the computer, but I think I do not have that option in my import menu. I got older Steam version though 🤔
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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@animagic
Yes! I've already done that. I have purchased some CC clothing from the Marketplace that didn't live up to my standards and did just that. The simple process was to export the item as an .obj file in the exact pose that you have at the beginning of your animation. Export your character with animation via the Alembic option in iClone with footwear, but without any other clothing. Import your character as an Alembic file. Import the .obj file via the (Add) obj to garment located in the MD menu on the left hand side. Simulate and enjoy! First time, every time!
No weight mapping, guess work, poke through, Photoshop, etc. However, I won't go through the step by step hassle of what it takes to get it back to iClone. It's a 1 to 4 frames at a time process which takes me 6 hours for a 15 second animation!! Very soon, I will be able to import my Alembic files back into iClone within matter of seconds! Until then, I have to gear up for at least a 6 hour session in iClone, or use another program. I mostly design my own clothing, but as I mentioned earlier I bring in some wonderful dForce clothing that I purchased in DAZ and use MD for the simulation part. I just didn't layout the details. It's the same process. I'm only using very few items that I purchased from DAZ or the Marketplace and only for personal use as I'm not selling anything. I hope that leaves me legally in the clear!... and I hope that long winded rant helps to answer your question.
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By animagic - 3 Years Ago
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@MINI3D: Yes that is clear. I will wait for official support of Alembic import as I currently don't have MD anyway.
If it works as expected it will be worth it. I suppose the clothing needs to have an export license?
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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Yes.
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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Apparently I do have OBJ to Garment option in MD  . I can't wait to start playing with it!
And you guys do not need an export license for cloth if you export from CC as OBJ with current pose.
Then just extra step for separating and saving particular cloth through Blender.
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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That's good to know.! I'm just so used to getting it because I'm all over the place with my programs that I export to, and without the export possibility I get the message that tells me that I didn't purchase the export version. So it's kind of automatic for me now. Thanks for finding a workaround. I'm too far down the rabbit hole to take advantage of it now, but I'm sure that it will help others.
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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Sure thing
And I forgot about another easier option. There is not need for Blender at all. Just bring OBJ exported from CC directly to iClone selecting option to separate.
Then delete unnecessary stuff (like avatar mesh... etc). There is a slight offset by Y, which can be easily tweaked.
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By MIDI3D - 3 Years Ago
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Indeed!
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By cynsegura - 3 Years Ago
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Many thanks for your video!! I highly appreciate your help!!
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By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
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cynsegura (1/7/2021)
Many thanks for your video!! I highly appreciate your help!!
You are welcome
Now looking into the future (new automated alembic import) and trying to see if importing external garments from OBJ into MD is really a viable option, I came to the conclusion, that it is not.
This feature is highly underdeveloped so to speak.
You can apparently bring the OBJ as garment without UV tracing with no problem. But then there is no materials separation and no patterns of course.
So you may not assign different fabric and physics to parts of the garment.
UV Tracing on the other hand, is totally useless (at least for a few closing items I was trying to import). Algorithm is not smart at all.
A small UV inconsistency in joining parts and imports fails, or only parts of the mesh is imported.
Even after fixing UVs, some parts of the mesh does not show up after import (although no error is displayed anymore).
Importing missing parts separately, again does not offer the option to convert to pattern so that is can be stitched to the rest of the imported garment.
Another problem is, that resulted UV does not follow original texture at all. You have to spend quite some time editing UV in MD to match the texture.
And that is such a simple thing to automate. As I said - quite underdeveloped.
Maybe with some luck something can be eventually imported successfully, but I tried DAZ medium to high complexity cloths and it mostly failed.
PS I'd be glad if someone proficient in MD gives some pointers.
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