|
By Rayvn322 - 5 Years Ago
|
Can anyone point me in the direct of the hair styles used in the new Wild &Chic promo pictues. Looked through what i believe is every hair style in the Content Store. Think I went through all the SWAM styles and essentials as well. Any help is greatly appreciated.
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
|
I don't believe these are available for purchase. I also was unable to find them. You should check out my store. I sell alot of hair styles you may like ☺️https://marketplace.reallusion.com/store/DorothyJThompson
|
|
By Scyra - 5 Years Ago
|
The fourth one looks like Whitney Hair from Daz. I think they are all Daz hairs. Hopefully RL can pick up some more good hair artists. Export content prices here are far more reasonable than Daz's overpriced and suddenly-vanishing-forever Interactive Licenses.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
You're right on all counts. I think these are all Daz hairs -- first one looks like Ladina, second is called (I think -- I have all of these but this particular one I didn't bring over into CC3 yet) single tail, the third is possibly Lana or Voss (honestly I have around five Daz ones that all kind of fit this) and I agree the last is Whitney. All of these work well in CC3 and if you are a Platinum club member they can all (usually) be gotten for a very reasonable cost (usually around $5 -- you always wait for a sale AND you always get $6 per month as part of your membership so it pays for itself in no time).
As I demo elsewhere, it's easy to make your own hair and while it does take *some* artistic talent it's not terrible to learn (I have all the women's hair I want or need, but I'm always in need of short men's hair so that's what I concentrate on making).
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (12/14/2019)
You're right on all counts. I think these are all Daz hairs -- first one looks like Ladina, second is called (I think -- I have all of these but this particular one I didn't bring over into CC3 yet) single tail, the third is possibly Lana or Voss (honestly I have around five Daz ones that all kind of fit this) and I agree the last is Whitney. All of these work well in CC3 and if you are a Platinum club member they can all (usually) be gotten for a very reasonable cost (usually around $5 -- you always wait for a sale AND you always get $6 per month as part of your membership so it pays for itself in no time).
As I demo elsewhere, it's easy to make your own hair and while it does take *some* artistic talent it's not terrible to learn (I have all the women's hair I want or need, but I'm always in need of short men's hair so that's what I concentrate on making).
I know DAZ hair is extremely high poly count, at least the hair i have tried, i could make hair like the photo the OP showed if i used a higher poly count. Right now i don't go over 16,000 Tris. Any hard limits? I guess it really depends on computer specs too.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
Not all Daz hair is high poly -- some is even lower than "normal" RL sold hair.
Of the Daz hair I've converted (and I would guess I've converted about 90% of all hair sold on the Daz site) I would estimate that about half is either the same as RL hair or only slightly higher. There is some hair that's higher that's still usable, and there is some hair that is not usable at all (I'd say out of the hundreds I've converted only 10 or 20 fall into this category). What I always suggest to folks is they ask me -- I can tell them if a Daz hair will work or not.
But since the Blender Hair tool is cheap (less than $40) it's really easy for anyone to make their own hair and I would advise folks interested in such to do so. Once you've mastered this (and it only takes a week or two) you can then do anything you want without having to rely upon others making it for you (and no offense, Dorothy -- you hair makers are great and up until now it's been the only way anyone can really get the hair they need. But like all things, the time has passed).
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (12/15/2019)
Not all Daz hair is high poly -- some is even lower than "normal" RL sold hair.
Of the Daz hair I've converted (and I would guess I've converted about 90% of all hair sold on the Daz site) I would estimate that about half is either the same as RL hair or only slightly higher. There is some hair that's higher that's still usable, and there is some hair that is not usable at all (I'd say out of the hundreds I've converted only 10 or 20 fall into this category). What I always suggest to folks is they ask me -- I can tell them if a Daz hair will work or not.
But since the Blender Hair tool is cheap (less than $40) it's really easy for anyone to make their own hair and I would advise folks interested in such to do so. Once you've mastered this (and it only takes a week or two) you can then do anything you want without having to rely upon others making it for you (and no offense, Dorothy -- you hair makers are great and up until now it's been the only way anyone can really get the hair they need. But like all things, the time has passed).
You are correct about the blender hair tool. It is very easy to use (If you know blender). That is what I use to make hair and it only took me a few weeks to really get it down. But I alone created all the content on my store and used the hair tool add on for all the hair. I guess I only tried a few Daz hairs and they all had huge poly counts so just assumed they all did, so thanks for the great info on that!
Right now I feel like the marketplace has pretty much (almost) any hairstyle anyone wants. Someone could always create a topic with suggestions on different hair styles they need and cannot find, then us hair creators can get ideas on new styles to make!
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
Maybe I haven't looked at the Marketplace lately (and that's true) but the one hair style I've NEVER seen (even from Daz, and definitely not from RL) is shorter men's hair. I don't mean bald, I don't mean the "Classic Taper" that RL offers, I mean a short, decent hair for men that about 80% of all men over the age of 50 have in various forms. You only have to look at such public figures as Biden, Sanders, Gore (to name some politicos) or Clint Eastwood, Michael Caine, Bill Murray, Kevin Spacey in Hollywood to see these styles. They are "balding" but not bald, and their thin hair is just something hair makers don't attempt (or perhaps don't do well). Some of the stuff I've seen that purports to do this is pitiful. And yet it's a huge need for those of us not totally concentrating on women (and young women at that - seems that's all anyone wants over at Daz).
While I am making some myself (for my own use -- I have no desire to get into sales) I think a lot of folks would welcome such hair. It's pretty amazing no one has even tried (the closest I've seen is some fibermesh hair at Daz -- and FM hair is pretty awful inside of iClone).
|
|
By Scyra - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Dorothy Jean (12/15/2019)
I know DAZ hair is extremely high poly count, at least the hair i have tried, i could make hair like the photo the OP showed if i used a higher poly count. Right now i don't go over 16,000 Tris. Any hard limits? I guess it really depends on computer specs too.
Many times Daz hairs like these are around 200K triangle count. This cripples performance. With Polygon Reduction you can take them down to 40K—50K and they still look great, and performance is restored. Right now there is a glaring quality difference between most hairs and the Digital Humans. We need hairs like these...
That is Dax Hair from Daz at 27K, down from the original 68K, but looking 100%, identical.
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
Scyra (12/15/2019)
Dorothy Jean (12/15/2019)
I know DAZ hair is extremely high poly count, at least the hair i have tried, i could make hair like the photo the OP showed if i used a higher poly count. Right now i don't go over 16,000 Tris. Any hard limits? I guess it really depends on computer specs too.
Many times Daz hairs like these are around 200K triangle count. This cripples performance. With Polygon Reduction you can take them down to 40K—50K and they still look great, and performance is restored. Right now there is a glaring quality difference between most hairs and the Digital Humans. We need hairs like these... That is Dax Hair from Daz at 27K, down from the original 68K, but looking 100%, identical.
Wow that looks great! So 27K is OK? I guess I never though anything over 16,000 was really OK to use. Let me know how your system runs with that hair. I could make some pretty decent hair with that poly count, however, that hair style is short. A long one would almost double the poly count.
Here is an example of some of my hair i created that is on the marketplace. It does not look that bad with the digital human shader. Its around 17,000 Triangles.
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (12/15/2019)
Maybe I haven't looked at the Marketplace lately (and that's true) but the one hair style I've NEVER seen (even from Daz, and definitely not from RL) is shorter men's hair. I don't mean bald, I don't mean the "Classic Taper" that RL offers, I mean a short, decent hair for men that about 80% of all men over the age of 50 have in various forms. You only have to look at such public figures as Biden, Sanders, Gore (to name some politicos) or Clint Eastwood, Michael Caine, Bill Murray, Kevin Spacey in Hollywood to see these styles. They are "balding" but not bald, and their thin hair is just something hair makers don't attempt (or perhaps don't do well). Some of the stuff I've seen that purports to do this is pitiful. And yet it's a huge need for those of us not totally concentrating on women (and young women at that - seems that's all anyone wants over at Daz).
While I am making some myself (for my own use -- I have no desire to get into sales) I think a lot of folks would welcome such hair. It's pretty amazing no one has even tried (the closest I've seen is some fibermesh hair at Daz -- and FM hair is pretty awful inside of iClone).
I did some new mens hair by Pixtim that look really good.
I Personally have tried to make mens styles and I feel they are harder to make then female styles. I just can't seem to make them look good when I try to make them. I feel like its the shorter layers that I run into trouble with along with making a good believable scalp.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
I guess everyone's needs will be different -- I saw nothing by Pixim I would even categorize as "good" (and I've even bought hair by them). Honestly, I can make better hair on my own after just a week playing around with that hair plugin.
But still -- even all of those men hairs by Pixim are not short enough. Not even close. And it's not that hard to do -- again, I've done a few myself with very little practice. Part of the problem, I do believe, is that designers (and this is true of nearly everyone, not just the marketplace, not just RL, not just Daz, but nearly ANY content producer) design for themselves. Which is to say they do something they want. That's how most "art" works but not commercial art -- there are lots of commercial artists that do things they don't even like personally, but they know others want and they want the paycheck. So I feel there's a lot left on the table there. I'm way too old to go into the content producing business, but if I was I would certainly concentrate on the shorter men's hair I mention. It's a huge hole and NO ONE is doing it (and, honestly, if I see ONE MORE long woman's hair style I'll puke -- I have, by last count, 187 of them in CC3 and just picking one out is exhausting. I certainly am not going to create any, and for sure won't ever buy any. And yet they keep coming, because by and large they are produced by fan boys who have never had a real woman in their life, but can finally capture one in their computer <g> .
|
|
By Scyra - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Dorothy Jean (12/15/2019)
Wow that looks great! So 27K is OK? I guess I never though anything over 16,000 was really OK to use. Let me know how your system runs with that hair.
Yes, but I am generally avoiding the PhysX CPU-driven feature in iClone. The performance demands are unreasonable. Is that is a factor in your polycount figure? Other software now has GPU-driven cloth physics and RL is probably already thinking about adding that in. For now I would much, much rather have 30K high-quality hair with possibility for morph animation than low-poly hair with PhysX.
When I look at the hair in your picture, I think of the kinds of Daz hairs I have dealt with. There are several types or techniques artists use, and some are far better than others. I tend to agree with Mike, that fibermesh generally is one that is not good for us. But there are major variations among polygonal types also...
While I like the style of Ysabeau Hair the hair strands bend at jagged angles and I don't know why. Compare this to hair by outoftouch which does not have this problem. I see outoftouch has superior opacity maps, but is that really the answer? Both hairs have many layers and we see small differences in the Smooth shaded view...
By the way, notice how good outoftouch long hair looks at only 24K polycount (reduced from ~200K). That artist is one to study. I think they are the best Daz hair artist, and maybe the best hair artist period. I planned to use their hairs in a Unity game but they suddenly decided to stop selling licenses for that use case and Daz offers no support even though I spend like $10K at their store, so I am eager to give RL my money if they can only come close.
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
Ok. I see. Looks like alot of that hair may have started as particle hair VS Hair cards placed mainly on the top of the head. I am working on doing Particle to Curves to Mesh at least at the hair line and part area to make hair looks at least appear to be better at the hair line and such. Today I "tried" to make a mens hair style... Here is my first attempt and Yes i need practice. I ended up staying with PBR because DH shader made it look worse than it already does. Not sure why. Anyway, i think if i keep at it i may be able to make some good mens styles... hopefully..
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
Stick with the shader -- it should look TONS better and if it doesn't then your maps are off (make sure you drill down to have the hair roughness mask map in place).
Good for you to start -- you first effort looks a lot like my effort after a week (but you've been making hair a lot longer -- I need to get better at the "hairline" because I don't generally get the curves as evenly spaced there as I'd like. Would love to know your technique with that).
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (12/16/2019)
Stick with the shader -- it should look TONS better and if it doesn't then your maps are off (make sure you drill down to have the hair roughness mask map in place).
Good for you to start -- you first effort looks a lot like my effort after a week (but you've been making hair a lot longer -- I need to get better at the "hairline" because I don't generally get the curves as evenly spaced there as I'd like. Would love to know your technique with that).
I'm new to the whole particle hair thing and grooming. I used the whole "Curves from grid surface" method with all my female hair. I think I have maybe 1 or 2 that were particle hair but i was lucky because i pretty much just threw it on and move it around a bit and it worked. But I could never really do it again. LOL
When it comes to the hairline for the male, I really didn't do anything. I think it really is just the Opacity map that I got from the HairTools Mens hairstyle demo. Works great!
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
I've never been successful using the grid hair method, mostly because I suck at Blender and can't get a grid to match what style/hair I'd want. Particles is just natural, just combing and styling and everyone combs their hair.
Weirdly enough, I've never looked at any of the demo files that come with the plugin. I'll have to check them out (I've had it since the beta version, several years ago, and communicated with him on and off through the years to add things that were needed, but it finally works with particles the way I've wanted it to).
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (12/16/2019)
I've never been successful using the grid hair method, mostly because I suck at Blender and can't get a grid to match what style/hair I'd want. Particles is just natural, just combing and styling and everyone combs their hair.
Weirdly enough, I've never looked at any of the demo files that come with the plugin. I'll have to check them out (I've had it since the beta version, several years ago, and communicated with him on and off through the years to add things that were needed, but it finally works with particles the way I've wanted it to).
Once you get a grid made its really easy and fast to make a hairstyle using that method. You just have to make 3 or 4 layers, with opacity starting out Pretty opaque then getting finer. (Base, Fill in, Fly-aways)
So I made this one in about 45 mins. I think i'm getting better??? Maybe?? - (Using the DH shader too) 
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
Yeah, that's good, that's about where I'm at.
About the grid -- I just can't get the grid to be in any kind of usable shape. Again, I'm just lousy at Blender. But that's okay, the particle approach seems a lot more intuitive to me and Bartok has fixed the issues with it I reported (finally). So it's very, very workable.
Anyway, best of luck and I'm sure you'll get a lot of folks to buy your men's hair if/when you decide to sell it (as I said, shorter men's hair is the key - you still need to thin out that hair quite a bit but I'm sure you'll get there).
|
|
By Scyra - 5 Years Ago
|
The results look promising, Dorothy Jean. For the scalp...I am always having to edit those even from top Daz artists. I'm sure you could accomplish a lot by recycling (and editing) just a couple good scalp textures. May be worth paying someone to do it if they will give you license to modify and resell.
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (12/16/2019)
Yeah, that's good, that's about where I'm at.
About the grid -- I just can't get the grid to be in any kind of usable shape. Again, I'm just lousy at Blender. But that's okay, the particle approach seems a lot more intuitive to me and Bartok has fixed the issues with it I reported (finally). So it's very, very workable.
Anyway, best of luck and I'm sure you'll get a lot of folks to buy your men's hair if/when you decide to sell it (as I said, shorter men's hair is the key - you still need to thin out that hair quite a bit but I'm sure you'll get there).
If you want a grid to play with let me know, I have some I can share with you. Otherwise you can find some tutorials on youtube. I had some old ones but they are terrible LOL
Here is my 3rd attempt, just made top a bit longer and kept the same sides and back as the 2nd one. I played with the scalp a bit too. Still not perfect but i'm getting there.
And when you say "Thinning" the hair out. What do you mean??
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 5 Years Ago
|
I wouldn't mind seeing your grid -- while I'm not sure I'll make hair that way I'd be curious to know how it really works.
Here's what I mean about thinning hair -- I created this in about 10 minutes and it's just about perfect for my purposes (kind of Bernie Sanders hair). I'm going to use this as a base for a lot of my short men's hair styles. Again, all you need do is look at any man over the age of 60 or so (we're all about the same, though I don't have baldness and my own hair is thicker and less white :>:
|
|
By Dorothy Jean - 5 Years Ago
|
Kelleytoons (12/16/2019)
I wouldn't mind seeing your grid -- while I'm not sure I'll make hair that way I'd be curious to know how it really works. Here's what I mean about thinning hair -- I created this in about 10 minutes and it's just about perfect for my purposes (kind of Bernie Sanders hair). I'm going to use this as a base for a lot of my short men's hair styles. Again, all you need do is look at any man over the age of 60 or so (we're all about the same, though I don't have baldness and my own hair is thicker and less white :> :
Oh! Ok i see what u mean. Ill try some older men styles tomorrow after work. Ill play with opacity maps to create some good thinning areas! U can PM me your email address and ill send u a grid or 2!
|