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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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It should work like a character spine IK chain. Has anyone tried that?
I was thinking of making a rope with the spine of non-standard in 3DX and animating respectively.
But before I try to reinvent the wheel, is there any other way of making it? Is there any tutorials?
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By thebiz.movies - 5 Years Ago
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Rampa made a poseable vine prop a ways back...see here: https://forum.reallusion.com/267071/Help-needed-I-need-a-functional-rope--thing
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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Thanks! I will check it out tonight.
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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OK I have looked at it and that is not exactly what I need.
I sure can pose and animate. But I do not want to.
I want to grab the very top bone, move it down-side for instance and I want whole chain bent.
Same effect as when you start moving character's head. A whole chain down the spine is getting bent.
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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I finally had a chance to rig a cable as a non-standard human. One thing's for sure - it is quite impractical.
Though it is very easy to bend this cable, the limitation of control points (and overall control over it) makes it non applicable in most of the cases where precision and bounding to other objects would require.
But it was fun anyway.
What I would like to see in iClone though, is ability to control rigged props with some sorts of applicable path - just like in Blender.
Instead of tweaking 100 bones for very simple deformation or messing with physics, couple of clicks would deform/flex any prop along its IK chain rig.
This would be an invaluable feature and I bet it is not that hard to develop either. It is probably even possible with Python scripting.
Take a look how it is done in Blender (start watching after 5:40)
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By Delerna - 5 Years Ago
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Watched several Blender demonstrations from you and have picked up a few new methods in Blender from you.
I have a tendency to just do things the way I know how to do them but it is beneficial finding Blender methods I didn't know about that helps me to do things more quickly.
As said, over time I have picked up several from you so thank you again.
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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Thank you Delerna.. But sorry for the confusion. I should have mentioned. That Blender presentation is not mine 
I bumped into it while was looking for the solution with IK chain for props.
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By Delerna - 5 Years Ago
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I think I have trouble saying what I mean these days
But that's OK, its why I said demonstrations rather than tutorials.
Another one I got from you was here
Its not so much what your making that got to me for assistance. Its more some of the processes you do that has improved my time of making things in my methods.
For example in the one you posted in the link I added here the way you filled the hole in the object when you cut it in half was something I wasn't aware of.
I normally select a few vertexes and press F to fill them with a face and repeat it until I get the shape I want. But the way you did it I wasn't aware of and that has helped my timeline while making things
In this one its the way you made the multi circle edges rotating up (sorry I have difficulty using correct words).
I do that sort of thing by creating multiple circles, moving them up above each other removing a vertice from each of them and then merging a vertice from one to a vertice in the one above it.
I then select a vertice on each one and then pull them up a little. Repeat that until I get the shape you made. Takes me a several minutes to do it that way.
But the addon you showed has opened my mind to improve my timing and these are the things I am thanking you for
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By BlueyCreative - 5 Years Ago
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What about creating morphs in iClone for the animation, just use Blender to rig the object as a spine then save out the shape keys as obj's???
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By Delerna - 5 Years Ago
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JaffaDave
Oh yes morphs. That is something I really enjoy doing for editable props.
I have done it with beach waves for surfers, a person getting into and out of beds, animatable snakes, fillable cup,drinkable cup, waterflow in sink, eatable pizza
Looking into also doing things like tools cutting woods, other eatable foods etc etc.
Yes this is something I really really enjoy doing and I enjoy it more and more as I progress with it. Something I really like getting added to iClone. Hope it stays and improves in the future
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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I am glad my tuts have helped you Delerna.
Now, don't get me wrong folks, I love morphs. And I make them quite frequently (I have couple of tuts on morphs specialty).
But there are 2 problems with morphs.
First, they utilize linear vertices movement, which in case of extreme bending/rotating would result in odd deformation.
One of my first entries in FT almost 2 years ago was about ability to morphs radially around some pivot. That never happened.
OK, I can split it into consecutive morphs and smooth the movement to some degree.
But here comes the main problem - morphs are *fixed*. If I need to attach one end of the object and then move the other end somewhere, that somewhere is a *fixed* location.
I need a freedom as to where I move/flex/bend the other end. And that can only be achieved with rigged object.
Blender deformation solving for rigged objects with a spline is great. This is what we need in iClone to control flexible props with ease.
That snake is awesome BTW.
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By Delerna - 5 Years Ago
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Fully agree with you, there are definitely limits to what is achievable with morphs and using bones instead certainly gives a higher level of animations.
Which methods should be used all depends on what we want to achieve. For me, and this comment may only apply for my preferences, I prefer animating props with morphs rather than bones.
But I definitely rather use bones instead when doing it with morphs makes its animation abilities too low for what is needed.
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By Delerna - 5 Years Ago
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Actually, I should add this. I certainly like animating characters through their bones. It works really well in characters.
But the way I find animating props in iclone through bones I find annoying and that's why I prefer animating props with morphs rather than bones where possible.
But again, it may only be because of how I find it and my workflow preferences. Its probably something we all need to decide for ourselves, with all methods and not just this one.
Anything we use is according to our own preferences.
Just saying what I think for myself in this
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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Delerna (6/1/2019)
Actually, I should add this. I certainly like animating characters through their bones. It works really well in characters.
But the way I find animating props in iclone through bones I find annoying and that's why I prefer animating props with morphs rather than bones where possible.
But again, it may only be because of how I find it and my workflow preferences. Its probably something we all need to decide for ourselves, with all methods and not just this one.
Anything we use is according to our own preferences.
Just saying what I think for myself in this
Well, you said it. Bones for characters, morphs for props. Because... yes, animating props with bones IS annoying.
Yet if we had a better bones control for props (one way or another - and I have referenced 1 possible way to have it improved) , it would have been invaluable.
So many things could have been achieved with whole lot less effort.
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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With a little hope I still put it into FT 6026
Here is how it should work:
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By Delerna - 5 Years Ago
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What you have showed looks better
I have joined your FT6026 for an improved method for animating props with bones in iClone
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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Thank you for the support Delerna.
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By Delerna - 5 Years Ago
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LOL, things keep popping up in my head.
I have started thinking. At least with characters the bones structures are pretty much identical so for reallusion to create an animation method for them is identical enough for it to work like it does.
But bones in props can be so different depending on the prop and how it needs to be animated that making an animation method for them is not so easy to cover all the variations and that's why it is the way it is?
Maybe this is something that needs to be gotten into by people who create props with bones for animating by using python plugins to improve the bone animation abilities of the props that get made in this way?
I'm not sure if doing that is possible yet because so many things have kept pulling me away from leaning iClones use of python yet. But if its not possible yet it should be at some time in the future?
Got to hurry and finish the things I'm currently working on to help some people and get back into learning to use python in iClone.
I have seen it can be used with animating morphable props.
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By 4u2ges - 5 Years Ago
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Nothing's impossible I suppose. What we need, is a control *method* in place and conditions under which this method would work on a chain.
Rigging is done outside of iClone anyway in most of the cases. So let us know how the bones should be connected (though I think IK chain should be sufficient enough).
Then allow to link *selectable* chain to such control method.
Finally, allow to dynamically assign properties: number of control points, influence strength, degree of freedom and maybe some attributes such as volume preservation, freeze points...etc.
And of course expose it to python. 
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