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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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Hi All,
I've decided to part with my Perception neuron suit, it has 32 sensors (so full fingers ) has both mini hard case and big soft case.
comes with everything as new, I used it about 4 times.
I would really like to sell it to someone who has one already and needs a second one, mainly because that person will know that these suits are not magic bullets and still require work.
I'm based in London so happy drop it off at your studio or post at your cost any where in the UK.
looking for offers around £700 half price !
Best
Jamie
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By dogged2003 - 6 Years Ago
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Yes ... This is an advertisement ... The manufacturer, in order to preserve its reputation, is to be bought back ...
And improve the product ...
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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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Hi Not sure I get your point, Did I break a forum rule?
Any way, although I had an offer from a nice chap on here I have decided to keep the suit for now.
All the best
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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Interested if you change your mind. More than happy to spend the time required to get it working right.
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By dogged2003 - 6 Years Ago
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I think you did not violate the rules of the forum. I bought kinekt and plugin. It turned out to be not a suitable trinket. I am waiting for the promised new plugin. But the examples from Brekel and others are not impressive.
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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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Yes agreed, I tried Kinect first ....Not good.
The only good results I've seen from kinect was with two cameras using ipi soft.
The PN suit gets good results, its just a pain to get set up.
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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Don't know if you saw my comment - if you change your mind on selling the PN I'm interested
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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When you say "pain to set up" are you talking about having to rezero the sensors or something?
I use the magnetic case and haven't (yet) had to rezero any sensors (my area is very non-magnetic that I use it in). Putting the suit on and getting it ready to go takes around five minutes. Then again, I do my capture outside of iClone so perhaps you are having issues doing it inside (I just like capturing separately and bringing it in via XChange. Works fine for me).
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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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Hi Joe,
yes sorry it's not for sale at the moment.
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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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Hi Mike,
Its the popping the neurons in and putting the straps on.... I'm just lazy. :)
But like you I use axis to capture then clean up in motion builder, other than an occasional bad calibration I've never had any problems with the suit.
I probably shouldn't say this here but I don't use iclone at all anymore.
"TAXI FOR JAMIE"
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Um, you don't leave the neurons in all the time? Why would you ever want to take them out?
(Just curious -- and I don't care if you use iClone or not, that's up to you).
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By michael7 - 6 Years Ago
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Kelleytoons (2/8/2019)
Um, you don't leave the neurons in all the time? Why would you ever want to take them out?
(Just curious -- and I don't care if you use iClone or not, that's up to you).
Mike I think he's saying he takes the neurons off the suit sensors to put them in that small magnetic case, where as you are probably putting the whole suit in that large hard case you can buy separately?
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Yeah, I bought the shielded case precisely because there was no frickin' way I was going to remove all those sensors (that's... insane).
No wonder he doesn't like using the suit (you can get the suit on and off in less than five minutes, and not much more than that and you are in capture business).
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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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Hi Yes
You are both right, I don't have the large mag safe case, maybe I should invest would make things easier :)
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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I can't even begin to imagine using the PN by having to put all those in each time, Jamie. Just the thought alone would have me saying "well, I don't *really* need to capture today" <g>.
I think it's well worth the investment.
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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Can I ask a couple of questions of this group as several of you obviously are using PN regularly. I want to use it with iClone to be able to capture some more realistic interactions between avatars, as well as close ups of actions such as picking up a cup etc.
1 Is the PN suit ideal for this with iClone.
2 I've read that its difficult to set up / get working with iClone - true in your opinion?
3 Are there different PN suit models available in terms of pricing etc? I've googled etc but this isn't clear.
4 Apart from the PN you then need to purchase the plug in for iClone to achieve this. Is that all?
5 Lastly! I've read of people using 3D Exchange (which I have) to do this then bring the mocap data into iClone. Why do this rather than go straight into the iClone and see how its going to work in the final scene?
Thanks for taking the time if you have it. Joe
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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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Hi Joe,
1) is it ideal for iclone? it's just one of the "affordable" available options along with ipisoft / rokoko / brekel and they all have good and bad points.
I think PN is the best option if you want to capture fingers.
2) haven't used it with iclone for a while but from what I remember its not bad you might need to hit the forums / google to find the right bvh broadcasting setup for your versions
3) they used to sell a cheper version with less neurons but that seems to have gone so now it PN PRO or PN2
4) again that depends. as I've just been shown by Mike, buying a big mag safe case is a good idea :) also if you want to use the suit on wifi you will need a spare router and a battery pack.
getting he wifi up and running is a little fiddly the first time.
5) Mike will be better answering that?
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Joe,
Everyone's experience will vary, with almost anything. So any answers I give you will obviously always be a case of YMMV:
1) That's what I use it for, along with every other motion I ever do. Indeed, I no longer use canned motions at all, for any reason.
2)/4/5 There are two distinct and separate ways of using PN -- okay, so not SO distinct, but they definitely differ in how the capture comes into iClone. In either you start up the PN capture software (which calibrates the suit position, etc). In the first this is all you need -- you then use the PN software to capture your motions. After you capture you can bring in the motions via XChange and then into iClone.
In the second you pay $500 for the Live component (you'll also need Live itself -- don't know right now but it used to for for a couple of hundred) and after you start the PN software (or before? I've never done it) you then run Live and capture to an avatar directly in iClone.
For me this isn't even slightly workable. For one thing, I routinely capture 30 or more minutes, doing all kinds of motions. Trying to reset iClone each time (or make a timeline long enough -- is that even possible?) wouldn't work. It's MUCH easier for me to then break out the motions separately in the PN software and bring them in via XChange. But some people swear by the other method -- I'm going to guess they think the advantages of seeing your avatar inside your set is well worth it (for me, again, it wouldn't be -- I'm an actor and I "act" but if I had to watch me acting at the same time it would ruin the performance).
3) There are currently two models -- the "regular" version (which includes the fingers) and the "Pro" version, which does not but apparently is better designed or something. I have the regular but all I can say about the other version is I've seen no examples that make me think it works any better than mine. But it might.
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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Thanks for that - the replies help a lot, and thanks for taking the time! Joe
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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Again - thank you!! Between the two of you that has really helped clarify certain points which were 'sticking points' in my mind... I really appreciate your candid (and clear) replies. Particularly as my interactions are relatively short in comparison, 5-10 minutes, working in iClone would seem to the option for me.
Again, many thanks to both you, its very much appreciated.
Joe
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By 3Aliens - 6 Years Ago
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This sounds totally cool! Can you explain it a little bit more? Are there Youtube Clips? You can fully controll Avatars with this Suit and a Cam?
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Well, if you mean *totally* control (like face and body) then it's *possible* although not easy. The PN works just fine, but doing the face with, say, a webcam means you will be tethered by that webcam (no wireless option available). While it's been done (and you can do a search on the web for "iClone Faceware" and see what you will see -- they did some demos of it during one of the trade shows) it's not something I would recommend (you COULD do it wireless with the iPhone X and Live Face, and I do have a rig for that purpose but haven't gotten around to trying it yet).
https://blog.reallusion.com/2017/07/31/real-time-face-and-body-mocap-for-iclone-7-at-siggraph-2017/
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By 3Aliens - 6 Years Ago
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This is really cool stuff.
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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I use Live with iPhone X and its an excellent solution.
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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joemoretti (2/10/2019)
I use Live with iPhone X and its an excellent solution.
With the PN? I'd love to see your rig.
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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No - the PN looks to be my next move..
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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Hi - next step completed having found a PN suit 2nd hand. I hope you can help again with a couple of Qs?
Suit all set up with AXIS, all firmware checked and up to date.
When I calibrate I have a problem with:
- right arm positioning is off. I've moved the sensors, changed neurons around and although I've improved it there is a kink, an angle in the right elbow which is messing up movement capture. ANY THOUGHTS? Initially I am thinking its the upper arm strap/ sensor is faulty.
- Thumbs - generally the fingers are capturing well but the thumbs are rubbish - no matter what I try with the sensors on the thumbs they pull back at a strange angle. Any thoughts or experiences to rectify this ?
Lastly, if I try to just do the upper body (for hand and torso capture) I get the right and left arms reversed! Which is just weird. Going to post these Qs to the Forum as a new post also.
Thanks Joe
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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You might need to check each sensor. I would have done that for sure with any used suit. In the software there is a procedure for doing this (you put each sensor into the little cable provided and then follow the instructions). I'd do this no matter what (no matter if the others are working).
This might help with your thumb problem as well.
I doubt whether you'll get any answers on their forum but it would be interesting if you do. Their support (direct to them in Miami) is good, although you're obviously out of warranty (but they may still be able to help you).
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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First, thanks for taking the time reply, its really appreciated.
I've tried this with a couple of sensors just to see how it works - and I'll check them all to be sure.
Is it possible the arm strap unit is faulty ? and is it possible to test this - or are the units that the sensors plug into generic? It wouldn't seem to make sense for them to be so, in which case a faulty arm unit could be what the problem is -
J
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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I doubt they are generic since they are identified specifically as being left/right (same for legs and hands). But it's way out of my pay grade to know.
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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:-).
and are they testable as far as you know? I've looked at the leads supplied and I don't want to mess with the wrong leads breaking something.
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Again, just way outside of my expertise. I'd try at least contacting the Miami support (even if they charge you it would be worth it).
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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Thanks again for your help.
J
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By jamie3d - 6 Years Ago
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You should check positioning on the arm and thumb - the PN youtube channel has some pretty decent tutorials.
check environment for any obvious interference.
As Mike mentioned the bands are marked specifically for left and right side, I've messed this up before and accidentally put the left strap on my right arm.
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By mtakerkart - 6 Years Ago
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If this can helps you , this is what I made with the Neuron suit and the Iphone X. You can notice that I attach the
Neuron on a sport suit :
I use both mouvements : Neuron and canned motions for move I can't make , high jump , backflip , martial fight , etc...
You can see here a mix of my own movement with canned move comming from UDK matinee and some ragdoll from Iclone store.
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Mr. M,
Thanks for posting. I really need to try this once. When you stay the PN was "attached" to a sports suit do you mean you somehow got it to stick on the suit itself? (so all you had to do was just put the suit on? My biggest issue with the PN is the damn upper torso piece -- putting that on is a bit like trying to wrap cellophane around me.
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By mtakerkart - 6 Years Ago
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When you stay the PN was "attached" to a sports suit do you mean you somehow got it to stick on the suit itself?
Yep I use this kind of suit :
Bought some velcro tape :
And get this :
my main problem is that the connector broke twice time . Now I never unplug anything.
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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It's an interesting idea. I don't mind putting the arms and leg pieces on, but I really hate putting on that torso piece. Maybe I could get some sort of rubbery vest and do the same thing with it.
Thanks for sharing.
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Exactly what kind of sports suit is that? I tried Amazon and can find a sort of rubbery vest designed to sweat in, which doesn't strike me as what I want <g>. If I could find out what your sports suit was designed for maybe I can find a similar vest.
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By mtakerkart - 6 Years Ago
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I buy this one but it's in canada. I use this for very low temperature outside. But it's very thin and comfordable.
I keep only a t-shirt and my boxer-short.
https://www.sportsexperts.ca/en-CA/p-vblsuitj-junior-baselayer-suit/506663/506663-2
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By joemoretti - 6 Years Ago
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all of these postings are REALLY helpful thank you.
ANOTHER QUESTION - when I connect my PN to AXIS the Avatar on screen is always pointing away from me. In the PN YouTUbe clips the avatar is facing -I've looked for a setting in AXIS to rotate the character (its easy in iClone) -
Have I missed something ? Is there something wrong with my setting up?
J
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By Kelleytoons - 6 Years Ago
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Just hold down the right mouse button and rotate the screen around (you use the left mouse button to move, right to rotate).
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