[ iClone 7.4 ] Some News and a Survey about Python for iClone

[ iClone 7.4 ] Some News and a Survey about Python for iClone

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https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic396265.aspx

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By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

Dear iCloner,

Reallusion is going to launch the Python for iClone Project recently.

The Python for iClone Project includes two major parts: iClone v7.4 and Plugin Marketplace.

Through iClone’s Python Open API, developers can build various plugins to expand iClone's functions. These plugins can be designed to satisfy different purposes and needs, such as increasing productivity or using more creative ways to make animations.

Moreover, through the upcoming Plugin Marketplace, iClone developers can upload, share, and even sell created plugins to a global community.

On the other hand, general iClone users can download and even purchase user-made plugins on the Plugin Marketplace to expand their iClone’s functions.

Our ultimate goal is to build an ECOSYSTEM which can attract more developers and even companies to create and sell iClone's plugins.

Now you can participate in the Naming Survey to let us know your preferred name and slogan of the Project.

Survey Link: https://goo.gl/forms/4Ul9yYqzk6RUWvEs2

Please feel free to add extra names or slogans to the "other" option of the survey if you have any good idea.

You can also reply to this post or inbox me if there is any suggestion.

Your opinion will be an important reference to our naming strategy.

Thank you so much for the kindly cooperation.

Note: The Plugin Marketplace (Beta) will be made available in Q1, 2019. Selling plugins on the Marketplace will be unavailable in the Beta Stage, but users still can share and download user-made plugins for free.

BR
Tony

By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago

Tony,

Can I ask a question before I wet my pants? (Sorry, that may be too local an idiom for folks outside of the United States to understand -- let's just say I'm seeking to contain my excitement here). Originally we were told the scope of the "Python for iClone" project was going to be VERY limited, to only the position/rotation/scale of objects on screen. What you are describing sounds FAR greater than that, perhaps even something on the scale of what Python can do inside of Blender (which is, basically, everything).

Obviously as a (former) programmer I am very much in favor of this -- I can think of about a bazillion things I could do if I had access to even 50% of the functionality of iClone. But I don't want to get my hopes up because I'm aware there is often a communication issue here. So -- can you please give us a little more info on how much functionality will be exposed by the API? Is it still going to be extremely limited (in which case I can't really see how many plugins could even be useful, let alone sold on the marketplace)? Or have the plans completely changed?

By mtakerkart - 8 Years Ago

I'm not a programmer but I could be a good customer .
Suggestions for futur plugin programmers : In my case think like Reallusion :
1-Easy to learn for beginner
2-Esay to use (slider/drag'n'drop)

If it's based on scripting to work (like popcornFx editor) I can't buy it.

Thank you

By Dr. Nemesis - 8 Years Ago

It’s too late. I just did backflips all over the place.
This is huge news and now I can’t wait for Iclone 7.4

I know I shouldn’t get too excited yet but I just can’t hold it in. I hope this’ll be as game changing as I’ve imagined all year.

By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago

And since we're on a time delay (so you won't be seeing/answering until tomorrow), Tony, can you also explain just how widespread the availability of Python will be for folks.

IOW, is this some sort of exclusive "developer only" club that will require RL to certify who can and can't develop plugins? Because if so, how do we get in? What are the requirements? Because now I'm thinking that maybe this has been going on for some time and only with 7.4 will those devs who HAD have access already are finally going to publish their stuff (in which case -- jealous, and a bit angry at not being invited, but I'd rather come to the party late than not be able to celebrate at all). OTOH, if this is going to be truly the "Open iClone Project" (as one of those possible names) then anyone should be allowed in and we can all share and benefit, right?

Please elaborate. This may drive me insane not knowing (and folks who know me will say "short trip").

By 3d guy1 - 8 Years Ago

Not sure how Octane can fit in this?

Looks like all 22 of Octane Plugins are sold exclusively at Otoy. The only exception I know, which would be UNITY.
I think you get UNITY OCTANE at the Unity store. But of course its free.

By rollasoc - 8 Years Ago

Everything Kelleytoons said.

Plus, would now be a good time to start my Udemy beginners Python course :)

By gordryd - 8 Years Ago

@Tony (RL) - the survey doesn't seem to be working correctly. As requested, I selected 2 items for the first question and 3 items for the 2nd question. When google sent me a copy of my inputs, it showed ALL selected for both questions. Seems like the survey would be pretty useless.

BTW, the name I came up with is...wait for it...PYCLONE!

By justaviking - 8 Years Ago

I might have an opinion on the NAME, but for the SLOGAN, I think I would need time to explore the capabilities and limitations of the system first.

The answer to those questions would greatly affect the slogan:
What if I have some programming skills, but am not a recognized iClone "developer?"
Can I create my own little Python-enabled feature and share it with a friend? Or do I need to go through a store?

Ignoring the Name and Slogan, I'd still like the answer to those basic questions.

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

gordryd (11/30/2018)

BTW, the name I came up with is...wait for it...PYCLONE!

So did I... You shouldn't really reveal this before the contest is over.

BTW: the form worked correctly for me.

By Delerna - 8 Years Ago

Eagerly awaiting the release of this.
And as I have always thought but never insisted, its capabilities are going to be higher than the many suggestions in the forum.

By jarretttowe - 8 Years Ago

Yeah active texture mapping, I.e. wrinkles, blushing, perspiration, will all be possible with this. My suggestion would be to do it sooner rather than later. And call it Dolly. Like the clone sheep.

By justaviking - 8 Years Ago

Delerna (11/30/2018)

And as I have always thought but never insisted, its capabilities are going to be higher than the many suggestions in the forum.

Some people hoped for rainbows and unicorns.
I, for one, cautioned them based mostly on what Reallusion said, and also a little bit on what they did not say.
In the past, too many people have assumed big things, only to be let down when reality, even if very good, didn't live up to their dreams and hype.
But of course I am always happy to have my expectations surpassed in a good way.

By Pulp3d - 8 Years Ago

This is amazing.
Btw developers, I would love to see a good batch renderer :)

By jarretttowe - 8 Years Ago

A rainbow and unicorn generator would be appropriate as well.

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

jarretttowe (12/3/2018)

A rainbow and unicorn generator would be appropriate as well.

What about a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...

By Dr. Nemesis - 8 Years Ago

You'll have it all :-p

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/5a479b6e-8cfc-4111-baba-bd92.jpg

A question that's rarely asked and has never been answered: What version of Python are we talking here, 2, or 3?

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

Kelleytoons (11/30/2018)

Hi Kellyttons,

The Reallusion Python Team’s ultimate goal is to make iClone as open as possible. We will make some APIs available in the first version, and then open the rest gradually in the following patches based on developers and end-users’ feedback. As a result, at this moment, I can tell you how “large” the scope will be because we don’t know either. But we’ll try our best to make it as large as possible.

BTW, the first version will be much more than just "only the position/rotation/scale of objects on screen". For example, you will be allowed to create a batch render plugin or a smartphone app to control iClone remotely. We will display more showcases in the upcoming Python webpage.

BR
Tony

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

Kelleytoons (11/30/2018)

You will definitely be allowed to access to iClone Python API. The upcoming iClone v7.4 with its Python API will be a public version. The team had some internal debates about if we should make the version exclusive or public, and eventually we decided to let it can be accessed by everyone.

Although it will be public, for core power users, like you and other active guys in Forum, we plan to host weekly group calls, hold a plugin making contest, or launch other kinds of incubation programs, providing necessary resources to help you to create iClone plugins. We plan to find some candidates for paid Webinar Speakers or Premium Plugin Developers in the future.

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

gordryd (11/30/2018)

Hi gordryd,

We check the survey again and it works without problems. You are able to change your answers after you submit the result. Maybe you can log in to the survey again to delete the extra selected options.

BR
Tony

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

justaviking (11/30/2018)

Hi justaviking,

For your first question: We don’t have a strict definition for the term “iClone Developer”. Everyone interested in Python for iClone is more than welcome to join the project.

For the second question: You can create whatever you want and share it with anyone. The Plugin Marketplace will be the official platform for sharing plugins and a place for helping developers to run their business. (Reallusion can bring customers for plugin developers, just like what we have done for content developers)

Thank you for asking these questions because others might have the same questions as yours.

Tony

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

Dr. Nemesis (12/3/2018)

You'll have it all :-p

A question that's rarely asked and has never been answered: What version of Python are we talking here, 2, or 3?

Hi Dr. Nemesis,

Python for iClone will be compatible with version 3.6.

By sonic7 - 8 Years Ago

Well, I can't confess to understanding anything about Python, nor am I *likely* to learn it, but, I *would* be interested in buying Python scripts / plugi-ns - whatever you call them (that can perform "useful" things) - from those members who're able to write them ...... Sounds very exciting indeed - and beyond what was first envisaged! This is terrific !!! :)

By RobertoColombo - 8 Years Ago

Hi Tony,

here I come, a bit late, to this thread....
Of course, I am very interested to know more about how Python will be integrated with iClne, especially whether we can build a GUI to have real-time controls over the editing stage.
Btw, my most interested question is whether you plan a Beta testing stage and, if you do, by when is it going to start.
With my 25 experience in SW programming in "I can´t remember any more how many different languages", plus a certification form RICE university with top score on their Python course on coursera.org, I would obviously be more than happy to be part of the Beta testing team.
Only catch... during XMas I might no be at home for a while...

Regards

Roberto

By justaviking - 8 Years Ago

@Tony - Please push hard for GOOD DOCUMENTATION.

A sample video and a tutorial is a nice start, but we will need a "Programmer's Manual" that specifies all the functions we can tap into and what the parameters are.

By Dr. Nemesis - 8 Years Ago

Wow Tony, thanks for the answers.
This is potentially the most significant Iclone update ever.

By Delerna - 8 Years Ago

we will need a "Programmer's Manual" that specifies all the functions we can tap into and what the parameters are.

Yes please. Learning to program within iClones API without some reasonably good documentation listing/explaining things like the available functions and parameters purposes will make it time consuming for us to get to the point of being able to make useful things for ourselves and other people

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

RobertoColombo (12/4/2018)

Hi Roberto,

We will launch iClone 7.4 with Python API directly by the end of this year, skipping a Beta version. However, users are more than welcome to provide feedback and suggestions anytime, so that the team can improve the Python API continually. Your respected resume is impressive. It’s our glad to have your participation in Python for iClone Project.

Tony

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

justaviking (12/4/2018)

Hi justaviking,

Yes, you are right. The team is preparing it now.

By Alyx.Oo - 8 Years Ago

Hello !

If 7.4 will be released before end of the year , it's quite close to that date
can't see upcoming new features of 7.4 major release , only I can see is python tool
will 7.4 have something else beside python ?

Best Regards !

By kosir.milan - 8 Years Ago

After many years of waiting for scripting, looks like it will finally arrive :)
Guys, congrats!
Probably no one remembers my suggestion from 6 years ago (my wish #3): https://forum.reallusion.com/121684/My-dream-previz-tool
... but if scripting will be done well I believe that all that I wanted will finally be possible with iClone!
Can't wait to see it!

By Rockoloco666 - 8 Years Ago

Whaaaaat? You are skipping the beta? Big mistake, i will not update until 7.41 or later, because this will most certainly be a disaster when released

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

raxel_67 (12/18/2018)

Whaaaaat? You are skipping the beta? Big mistake, i will not update until 7.41 or later, because this will most certainly be a disaster when released

You don't have to use the Python API if you don't want to. It will not affect other iClone functionality.

~~I also thought that 7.4 will include an Appearance Editor that fully supports CC3 characters, which should be of some interest.~~

EDIT: I'm getting my applications mixed up...:blush:

By donald.dade - 8 Years Ago

raxel_67 (12/18/2018)

Whaaaaat? You are skipping the beta? Big mistake, i will not update until 7.41 or later, because this will most certainly be a disaster when released

These are words of wisdom... anyone know if iClone will run in a VM? I'm dying to try 7.4, but I don't know if I'm willing to risk my current install to do it.

By justaviking - 8 Years Ago

donald.dade (12/19/2018)

... anyone know if iClone will run in a VM? I'm dying to try 7.4, but I don't know if I'm willing to risk my current install to do it.

I am doubtful.

Based on my [limited] experience with VMs at home, having the required access to your Graphics Card might be an issue. That was my experience with VMware, but I admit it was several years ago, so maybe that has changed.

By Data Juggler - 8 Years Ago

Being this API isn't released yet, this may be a premature question, but can you tell me what language is IClone written in, and would it be possible for someone (like me) to write an interface or wrapper for other languages or some Visual Studio package so I can convert Python to C#?

I develop Visual Studio packages and Project Templates for Visual Studio, so please contact me if I could sign up to be an early access tester.

If I could create a Visual Studio for IClone plug in I would be as happy as a dog with two D!@ks.

By RobertoColombo - 8 Years Ago

Data Juggler (12/20/2018)

Being this API isn't released yet, this may be a premature question, but can you tell me what language is IClone written in, and would it be possible for someone (like me) to write an interface or wrapper for other languages or some Visual Studio package so I can convert Python to C#?
I develop Visual Studio packages and Project Templates for Visual Studio, so please contact me if I could sign up to be an early access tester.
If I could create a Visual Studio for IClone plug in I would be as happy as a dog with two D!@ks.

Perhaps this could be useful for what you are after:

https://docs.python.org/3/extending/index.html

Cheers

Roberto

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

For those worried about the API being a disaster, it has already been used as far as I know, apparently for creating Mocap interfaces. But I guess Tony (RL) could just have been numb about it, so there would have been no panic attacks.

As I said, the API will not directly interfere with main iClone functionality, and what better way to test this then by having those interested having a go at it.

Also, remember that you are allowed two installation, so you keep one at 7.32 and one at 7.4. That's easier than using VM.

By Rockoloco666 - 8 Years Ago

In theory the api will not affect functionality just like updates never cause regressions. That is what worries me, not thr api but the update itself breaking more stuff, in the last update black glow maps glow, which is an aberration and physically impossible since black is the absence of lighht and yet if you export in pngs they glow. The timeline is broken, etc. And all this issues were caused by updates, so in my case i will wait for the patch that fixes the patch and hope the next thing it breaks is something i dont use

By Data Juggler - 8 Years Ago

raxel_67 (12/21/2018)

This reminds me of the old song for software developers; a parody of 100 bottles of beer on the wall:

100 bugs in the code.
Fix 1.
102 bugs in the code.

It all comes down to the subconscious minds of developers. They try to fix it right the first time; they really do.
But they also like to eat and have a place to live and all that a capitalistic society requires. So our tiny brains cause unintended consequences, leading to job security.

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

Tony's statement does not imply that the next release is not beta-tested.

The jibe at developers is unwarranted. I have worked with many, and I have great respect for them. You might as well blame the testers, or sales, or management, etc., etc.

By Rampa - 8 Years Ago

I think it's pretty likely that the group of people here that would use the Python API and the group of people here that should test the API, are kind of the same. ;)

So getting that group together before the release or after the release is going to end up with the same testing by the same people.

This situation is not normally the case, but for something like this, where there is likely only a small Python group here, it seems a reasonable way to go.

By Rockoloco666 - 8 Years Ago

animagic (12/21/2018)

Who's mentioned developers? In my case I always mention Reallusion, the company, or their product iclone. i complain about the company as a whole, because that is who we, as costumers, are dealing with, not the developers. I'm not against the API I am against discovering bugs when i'm trying to reach a deadline and even more against having to track down the cause or finding a workaround and loosing an entire night's sleep and having to go to the studio the next day to do audio post production with 3 or 4 clients breathing down my neck, audio post for advertising is stressful enough as it is, it is way worse with no rest and no sleep because the afore mentioned company did not test their product enough, a product that i use to earn money, and money implies commitment and reputation. Luckily so far my reputation remains intact, but i do dread the day when i have to tell my clients i can't reach the deadline because of a software issue. I get pissed (not at you) not because my hobby is on the line (no disrespect to hobbyists) it's because my job is.

By wires - 8 Years Ago

raxel_67 (12/21/2018)

animagic (12/21/2018)

Anyone doing an upgrade of any software in the middle of a client production is ………….. :Whistling:

By Rockoloco666 - 8 Years Ago

Thanks for the insult, sadly it is not true, i never said i updated in the middle of my project. You missed the point entirely

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

@raxel_67: to clarify: my comment about developers was directed at Data Juggler (who singled them out), not you.

By Data Juggler - 8 Years Ago

I was just mentioning how unintended consequences sometimes happen when you are trying to fix a small problem, you sometimes create a big problem.

This isn't criticizing IClone or any programmer in general, just informing those that think bugs are caused by sloppiness.

I tell my work all the time I make the worst tester, because I know what to do; I wrote it.

I have to watch this lady at my work to see what she really does versus what she reports as the problem.

By dogged2003 - 8 Years Ago

We are eager for instructions on how to implement on Python:
AML Script

Constant breathing, random movements, etc.

Go up (bypassing the sofas), take, sit in the car ... etc.

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

fantom.msc (12/17/2018)

Yes, it is. Some bugs are fixed in 7.4.

By dogged2003 - 8 Years Ago

We are very much waiting for examples on how to implement using Python in minutes: https://developer.reallusion.com/aml/avatar_persona_all/index.asp

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

donald.dade (12/19/2018)

raxel_67 (12/18/2018)

Whaaaaat? You are skipping the beta? Big mistake, i will not update until 7.41 or later, because this will most certainly be a disaster when released

These are words of wisdom... anyone know if iClone will run in a VM? I'm dying to try 7.4, but I don't know if I'm willing to risk my current install to do it.

Hi raxel_67 & donald.dade,

Addition to Python API, there will be serval bugs fixed in iClone 7.4.
You still can update your iClone to version 7.4 for fixing the bugs even though you don't need Python API.

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

Data Juggler (12/20/2018)

Hi Data Juggler,

iClone is written by C++, and you can convert Python to C#. Please check out this Documentation to get further information.

By dogged2003 - 8 Years Ago

Update came:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/88b9242a-a1aa-4207-ad99-ad9c.jpg

Where to learn about python in iClone?

By RobertoColombo - 8 Years Ago

Wow...

Can't make my hands wet on this for other 2 days.... :doze:

By Data Juggler - 8 Years Ago

Tony (RL) (12/24/2018)

Data Juggler (12/20/2018)

Hi Data Juggler,

iClone is written by C++, and you can convert Python to C#. Please check out this Documentation to get further information.

Thank you for the reply, I will read the . And yes, I saw there were a couple of Python to C# converters, or I can just spend a little time and learn the basics of Python. I am on vacation for a week so I have some time to play around.

Looking forward to finding out what can be done programmatically.

By Tony (RL) - 8 Years Ago

dogged2003 (12/24/2018)

Update came:

Where to learn about python in iClone?

Hi dogged2003,

Please visit iCone OPEN website to access learning resources.

By kosir.milan - 8 Years Ago

Long waiting is over! It's time for me to upgrade iClone and start building something...
CONGRATULATIONS TO ICLONE TEAM!
Documentation looks extensive and I can't wait to dive in!
GO iClone!!!