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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Decision Time: (purchasing today)
Which laptop to choose - from this *short list* - (intended for running iClone 7.2 AND the Kinect for X-Box One mocap).
Brand/model: Processor: RAM type/speed Sys drive: HDD/speed: Graphics: V-RAM: Screen: DVD:
MSI GT72VR 7RE-610AU Intl i7*4 2.8>3.8GHz 16GB DDR4 2400 256GB NVMePCIe 1TB (7200) Nvidia GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5 17.3" yes
ACER Predator 15FHD IPS Intl i7*4 2.8>3.8GHz 32GB DDR4 2400 256GB M.2 SATA 2TB (7200) Nvidia GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5 15.6" yes
ASUS ROG GL502VS-GZ233T Intl i7*4 2.8>3.8GHz 16GB DDR4 2133 256GB NVMePCIe 1TB (7200) Nvidia GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5 15.6" no
The CPU's are all Intel i7 7th Gen. (Quad Core).
The GPU's are all Nvidia GTX 1070
I'm not worried about 'screen size' or 'DVD drives' (mm... well I guess a disc drive *would* be nice) ....
I'm leaning towards the ASUS (the highest quality? - ACER are cheaply built?) - not sure ....
One other thing ... the 'MSI listing' states: "Hybrid Graphics" - is this an issue? - should it be 'Dedicated Graphics'?
Thoughts???
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By akuei2 - 7 Years Ago
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Hi, I'm ASUS ROG GL502V user & experince near 1 year. Good device for rough use, recommend it.
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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@akuei2 ... Yeah - I think you've possibly 'tipped' me over towards the ASUS, because, also - in the past I've owned a couple of ASUS laptops (much lower price tag though), and I was quite impressed by their quality and performance - (they're still both operational). :) So you've 'confirmed' that for me.
Also - just a couple of hours ago, I was talking to an IT person who's had a couple of ACER laptops in the past - and he told me "they're poorly built" (confirming my suspicions on that) - My *current* ACER, - the 'Aspire E15' has failed to 'Aspire' to anything great - though to be *fair* it's at a far different price point ....
My *Gut* feeling - especially now with your experience offered here, is that 'ASUS' is the solid choice .... - it doesn't have any extra 'bells & whistles' - but it seems a solid choice.
thnx @akuei2
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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I’ve been using an Asus GL702 for a bit a year now. No complaints here! I just switched back to Alienware just so I can use the graphics accelerator. Only reason. The Asus has been running like a champ. Also had an MSI back in iclone 6days that was rock solid. You should be good to go!
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Hey kungphu ..... thanks for your thoughts ....
Yeah (I *hate* decisions) ... the MSI has 6 x USB ports - the ASUS only has 1x USB3.0 and 1 x USB3.1-C.
Also, the MSI's RAM is 2400MHz, the ASUS is 2133.
MSI has the DVD writer, ASUS doesn't ..... arghhhhh !!!
OK - done.
It's the MSI GT72VR 7RE-610AU 'bought', done and dusted ...
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By wildstar - 7 Years Ago
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kinect mocap is a lose of time. believe me. i try all possible options for mocap on my movie project. and the most affordable is the perception neuron ( not perfect but 100x better than kinect )
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks for your thoughts on this Wildstar - I respect (as always), your knowledge and experience.
Having already (only recently) 'invested' in the v2 Kinect and the Mocap software, I have strong reasons for trying to make it work ...
It's also meant buying a more capable PC - but that won't go astray since my iClone experience will improve greatly, plus creating FX in Fusion will be more of a reality.
But importantly, for the first time, all the proper gear for v2 capture will be in place - and I'll have the best chance at getting full frame-rate captures.
I've mentioned before about my limited (virtually zero) budget on all this stuff. That's true, but certain things, like driving the V2 can't be compromised on it seems. I'm *expecting* to get the full 30 fps, (probably *with* associated jitter), but once at that point, I'll see what's possible with 'work-arounds' etc.
I think it'll be the work-arounds that'll make or break the end result. I remain *hopeful* ....
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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I think if you keep your expectations for the 1 Kinect RL version low you'll be fine. And by "low" I mean REALLY low.
Like, if you want to capture someone seated and doing some very limited arm and upper body/head movements (no arms in front of body or each other). Or, standing facing the Kinect (never turning away) and perhaps some *slight* leg movements forward or back. The minute you exceed any of these parameters you'll be in for trouble (and you still, even with these limitations, will have to do some clean up. Maybe a lot).
The problem with mocap, IMHO, is like a lot of things the more you do the more you want to do. So as soon as you get, say, a really nice upper body capture you think "why not cross my arms in front of my chest?" and when it doesn't work you start exploring other solutions. Which is how I ended up with the Perception Neuron (to be fair, I still haven't given it a decent trial yet, as I had issues originally I'm still working out. But I remain pretty hopeful). I've spent a LOT of money on mocap, but the results I've gotten have encouraged me to spend more and more. I can see that, some day down the road (perhaps in another year) I'll end up buying yet another solution (even though the PN looks pretty great there are things about it I know I'll be unhappy with -- and you never have enough capture suits, assuming you have enough folks to wear them -- the thought of having two or three folks being captured simultaneously just makes me grin like an idiot).
I'll be interested to hear how you progress, and I'm sure you will do some nice things in the meantime, although the longer you do this stuff the more you'll want to do better (I do like some of my early stuff, but even things I did just a few months ago I know now I could improve. I think if you ever reach a point where you DON'T feel this way you might as well give up animation).
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Hey Mike .. nice sentiments ....
Reading your words, I do feel that I can *relate* to what you're saying - even though I'm by no means as far along as yourself with all this ...
Yes - a new pc (out of necessity for Mocap's sake) - yet very usable for iClone and Fusion nonetheless.
Yes, I'll try to be realistic with the 'expectations' regarding tbe v2 - I'm prepared to do some cleanup - and the 'action' can be constrained to background elements.... - Always enjoy hearing from you Mike .....
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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In re-reading what I wrote I don't mean to give you the idea you can't get some decent capture out of what you'll have. And here's the good thing: if you *can* get some good stuff from the RL plugin, you can get 100% better from the Brekel one (which isn't that much -- I don't remember offhand but it's certainly not more than $100 or so). And the one camera iPisoft is even that much better than the Brekel (and I think it's only $59 for a year). Both of those have demos, so you can tell what you are getting into, but they will be logically steps up from the RL plug (which is pretty bad, honestly, although IIRC it does seating motions fine -- it's legs it really has a problem with).
So you can progress without spending too much (although if you follow the path I did you'll next head to the two Kinect iPisoft version, and then to some sort of capture suit like the VIVE or PN. Again, it's always a progression because as humans who continue to want to improve our art we seek better and better tools. Another way of looking at is is that we are always anxious for RL to release new versions of iClone and the associated software. We are NEVER satisfied -- but I think that's a Good Thing).
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Mike .... yes - I guess for the moment at least, I'm tryjng to give the Reallusion Solution the very best chance - which is why I updated my laptop. Then, there'll be no 'question marks' over the results because of PC hardware issues. I'll know for a certainty what Reallusion's approach to v2 capture is actually capable of. I'll try my darndest to make it usable and try to help others with any suggestions I can (on Snarp's mocap thread).
But sure, as you say, *other* solutions wouldn't be out of the question, although for me that would probably need to be 'further down the track' since I need to get a finished product under my belt. But hey, things change - and I don't think I've been more aware of personal *change* as much as here in the past 4 months..... About the surest thing I can say is that there's *sure* to be more personal changes in thinking! :w00t:
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By gigigeorge2002 - 7 Years Ago
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Hi Sonic 7,
I was wondering why didn't you go with the 8th generation 6 core cpu's for laptops(Asus,MSI,Dell) in your shortlisting process. Here in India the 8th gen 6 cores coffee lake cpus had been released a few months back and in the Americas I am sure they must have been released there much earlier .
Regards
George
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Hi gigigeorge2002 ...
Very good point. I was considering the 6 core i7 - had a list here https://forum.reallusion.com/373099/Advice-needed-on-Mocap-capable-Laptop
This list changed quite a bit over time while I was searching. I found that in order to get the 6 core as well as the 1070 graphics card, it took me too far up in price. I *could* have got a 6 core with the 1060 graphics inside budget, but thought the beefier 1070 card to be more beneficial for iClone, - so had to be happy with 4 cores. Would certainly have been *great* to have both - but *hopefully* I won't regret my decision. The 4 core has a base frequency of 2.8GHz and turbos to 3.8GHz.
Just as an aside, when it comes to 'brands' of laptops, I have a lot of respect for ASUS (I've owned 2 lower budget ones), as well as having enjoyed a couple of 2nd hand (albeit dated) Dell laptops. Both these brands are very good imho. For me, the MSI (which I ended up going with), is an 'unknown' - since I've never owned one. However, given that both Mike and Dennis chose MSI in the past and that access to the 'internals' is straight forward, - I'm reasonably confident with the choice. - The only negatives I've heard of are ● the short battery life per charge, and ● the premature failure of the cooling fans in earlier MSI models. But short battery life is fairly universal with gaming laptops, and the fans are extremely easy to replace from what I've seen on youtube videos.
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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Yup, MSI is a really good brand. I used one for iclone 6 and now use it as a satellite audio computer in a big orchestral set-up. Just fnished working on it as a matter of fact. I've used the snot out of it (technical term and it's still going strong). Oddly enough when I was buying my ASUS there were reports of fans going out on the ASUS and the comparable MSI's had better cooling. So it varies by year and model. As you stated above the 6 core i7's are coming out in newer computers, but there is a premium on most (not all) products that they come with since they are usually upper tier computers. Just got another master audio computer with an i6 and it was over 2.5k. I did see an affordable laptop with an i6 but it only had a gtx 1050. So there's your trade off. I'm sure you'll be over the moon with your MSI!
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks kungphu .... it's always nice to hear from you - with your great insights and encouraging comments - I certainly appreciate it ....
Yes, it seems (as I'm finding out), that when a *newer* component is released - it's not uncommon for it to be packaged with 'trade-offs' like you say...
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By akuei2 - 7 Years Ago
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Yes, I Agreed MSI Laptop is awesome gaming device( especially in cooling system ) BUT ....
Before I broke my hand purchased ASUS Strix (1599$), both of my old MSI laptop had been broke screen before ( LCD panel ).
So, I'm curios ... It's co-accident? Cheap build? or my fault as hardcore user?
Currently, my eeepc ( ASUS first brand netbook ) still working in my parent home since 2008.
what a solid build ...
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Hi akuei2 ... Yes well I guess it's always possible that heavy gaming *could* push a laptop beyond it's limits.
I can't comment on the build quality of the MSI, since I haven't taken delivery of it (end of the week hopefully)...
But being designed as a *gaming laptop* - it should cope with the lesser demanding task of using iClone.
Ha - funny - I also have the "eee" version ASUS (the 900HA, win XP) - it still works - the only problem being the silver toggle button beneath it's touch pad - it sometimes fails to make connection when pressed .... But yeah - an amazing little laptop - well 'notebook' really - which is why I *almost* went with ASUS ....
Thanks for the 'heads up' though .... I'll handle the MSI screen with *kid gloves*.
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By animagic - 7 Years Ago
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I recently bought an AlienWare 17 R5 laptop for travel purposes (I spend 3 months in Atlantic Canada during the summer), and it's behaving quite nicely. There is a six-core version, but it is substantially more expensive and the 4 cores are fine for iClone. I also have a 1070. There is a more powerful version (6 cores and a 1080) but that taxes the cooling of the system. So I think 4 cores and a 1070 (as the other mentioned laptops have) form a good compromise.
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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@animagic .... Yes - heard some really great reports about Dell Alienware. - Experienced a couple of 'standard' Dell's, (the now ancient Latitude 630s) obtained 2nd hand, - such a solid machine - *really* well built. If their Alienware is even half of that build quality, they'd be great for sure. (But Alienware was beyond budget for me). - Yeah an i7, 7th generation with a GTX1070 card was the maximum s-t-r-e-t-c-h - and like you say, isn't a bad compromise for mid 2018 ... (even a 1060 would've been OK).
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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I meant to reply to this earlier, but I think you'll be real happy with your selection. More cores won't do you any good -- iClone isn't setup for that and while some software can take advantage of it by and large it's unlikely you'd ever notice any difference (I certainly don't on my top of the line Alienware Desktop). The biggest difference in in graphics cards, and the difference between a 1060 and 1070 is appreciable (not, however, between a 1070 and a 1080 -- again, from experience I can tell you you would not notice any change whatsoever).
MSI is a great brand and I do like my laptop as much as I like any laptop (in general I kind of hate laptops). The main thing I don't like when using it for iClone is the heat -- it's a very graphics intense application and will definitely raise the heat of the card, and laptops in general just don't have the ability to handle that well. Even on a desk (you do NOT want it on your lap) you can feel the heat come off the keyboard, and the fan will run almost continuously when you get to rendering. On my Alienware Desktop machine it's liquid cooled nVidia Titan XP is whisper quiet even during the hardest runs, but you can't really do that on a laptop (not enough space for that). The other thing I don't like about laptops in general is lack of space -- I have 4TB of SSD (and will be adding 2TB more) in addition to the 8TB of hard drive space I have and I *never* feel I have enough (this is all in addition to the 27TB or so of NAS I have attached to). You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much disk space.
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