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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Folks,
I'm currently testing the HIVE/Orion hardware/software mocap solution, and with no clean up whatsoever of the capture it looks pretty terrific in iClone (not "live" but I don't need live). However, it doesn't do hands, and I'm becoming aware that hands are kind of important. So I look at the PN and think, well, that has both hands and fingers, and is priced *similar* (it's a bit more expensive initially and then becomes cost effective after a year or two). But I hear lots of folks talk about "jitter" in their captures, and I do NOT want to deal with that. Or much, at least. So I'm wondering -- what is your experience with it and if you do not get the smoothness you want how do you deal with it? (Running the curve editor in iClone is a non-starter -- that's a ridiculously long and laborious solution).
I come from the iPisoft mocap which was buttery smooth but a PITA to setup and use (but, as I said, the captures were as natural and smooth as real motion could be). I don't want to be stepping backwards, and worse comes to worst I'll live with using the Leap controller for my hands/fingers, but if the PN is viable perhaps I can go that route. But I need to make up my mind relatively soon, so any help would be appreciated.
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By animagic - 7 Years Ago
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Mike, are you aware of this: https://hi5vrglove.com/.
Another $999 unfortunately, but it looks ideal otherwise to complement a Vive setup.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Yeah, I don't know how that would work -- it looks like it works with VR setups, but you'd need some sort of software to capture the finger and hand movements and they don't seem to sell or even support anything other than Unity or Unreal (and I'm not about to complicate my life trying to run multiple capture solutions at the same time).
Given there apparently *is* jitter when using the PN and there is also magnetic problems I do not want to deal with, I do think the VIVE/Orion is the solution I'll stick with. I think I'll follow my own advice about assuming that a year or so from now there will be better/cheaper solutions (perhaps even by then this Hi5 Glove will have some capture software or even be integrated somewhere like an Orion like setup). And worse comes to worst I can always use another system anyway -- running two systems together would allow multiple character captures at the same time (you might have to line them up and coordinate their starts, but I don't see that as a huge deal).
I'll use the Leap for now -- perhaps RL will improve it (sorry, let me stop laughing and put on a serious face again -- Rampa will get on me again for disparaging his employers :>). Truly, it would take SO LITTLE to make it usable (just a countdown) that it's ridiculous they didn't beta test it (I mean with actual beta folks who could have given them feedback. I feel sorry for anyone who considered themselves a beta for anything RL does, because I would never admit to such a poor job).
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By animagic - 7 Years Ago
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What saddens me about RL is that there are great ideas but then the implementation is lacking. I think I'm entitled to say this as I have been a customer since 2006...:unsure:
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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You have nailed it exactly -- great ideas, but implementation problems.
And I continue to insist those problems would be easily solved with better beta testing. I am NOT speaking out of ignorance -- about half a century in the industry with beta testing some of the giants (Photoshop and Max to name just two). I have directly improved those products, to the point where some of my actual code is in there. I well know the value of a good beta but apparently RL does not. There are just too many issues that slip through that should have been caught not to understand this. Instead they follow the classic "Code in haste, debug in leisure" approach that so many young programmers take (so often have I chastised my own staff for this).
Oh well, I'll shut up for a bit because it doesn't really do any good. At least I have some workable solutions for now.
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By illusionLAB - 7 Years Ago
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It's pretty clear you're sold on Orion... and frankly it does make sense. As for PN - the nature of the technology and variability of the people using it will, of course, generate a range of user experiences.
I found I had more jitter when I used iClone's plugin - possibly because it's capturing at 60fps (not sure, but I think that's true). Axis, which is Noitom's capture software captures at 120fps and you can set the level of 'averaging' (lo fi smoothing) for your export to FBX or BVH. So, the jitter I've experienced is not unruly - and is no worse than the fully "pro" captures I've experienced - ALL systems... regardless of price need an effective 'solver' (not just filters) to preserve the primary motion whilst reducing the 'high frequency' noise that we call jitter. So, iKinema's solver, whether it be in Orion or as 'external process' like WebAnimate, is a fantastic solver that can turn basic info into something usable (I had hugely improved results with iC's Kinect and Brekel's plugin when I resolved them in WebAnimate).
As for magnetic interference... if you're in an office/apartment building or in the vicinity of any other strong EMF source, then PN will have issues. I've had my rig for more than two years and have only 're-calibrated' all the sensors once so far. Again, this is a bit tedious and I guarantee most people who've complained about the sensors being 'magnetized' have never re-calibrated all the sensors. According to Noitom, the sensors don't get 'magnetized' as much as they need to be 're-aligned' to World space in order to be most effective... when you have 30+ in a suit, small variances throughout are going to have a an impact on overall accuracy. I have the first generation suit, and yes it's more of a kerfuffle to get going and also there are times when fingers look strange or a shin bone is twitching. If, for instance, a finger is pointing 'up' when it shouldn't I've found that using iClone (or iKinema) to 'offset' that finger with a rotation will usually be enough - that is, the captured motion is still there but the finger looks 'stuck' because it's reached the IK constraints. As I'm familiar with the look of iKinema's solver, the demos you've posted of Orion do look as if the 'smoothing' is set a bit too high - but I'm sure it's tweakable and you'll find the 'sweet spot' for natural movement without jitter.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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No, don't assume things -- I'm not "sold" necessarily on the Orion. I am exploring all avenues, and I go back and forth.
Today, after doing some tests with my wife (ahem -- mocap tests, that is) I've actually gone kind of sour on the Orion. We had all kinds of tracking issues that I hadn't experienced before and I couldn't solve them. So now, more than ever, I'm thinking of going the PN route. And your experiences are very helpful in that regard. I'm not fantastically thrilled about the cost (I just found out it's an additional $500 for the iClone plugin, and I don't really even need the "live" or iClone aspect of it) but since you say you get less jitter when using the native PN software that encourages me a lot. I got a bit discouraged again when JFrog PMed me and said he can't get finger animation working at all, really, but you seem to be able to do it so that's also encouraging.
I tried WebAnimate and while I got it to work I could never get it to export at anything other than twice the frame rate (so all my animations were doubled and slowed down accordingly). Even changing the FPS inside of WA didn't do it for me -- probably user error but there isn't much support for it anywhere (and my demo runs out tomorrow). If capturing direct from the PN using their own software and then processing it through WA (and then XChange into iClone) is the workflow I'd love to have just a raw BVH file to try this out before I lose my ability to do so. Being able to evaluate that would be extremely helpful before I plunk down the money for the PN.
So if you do happen to have even a short raw BVH file I'd love to see it, just to see if I can run it through WA and into iClone successfully. That might be the tipping point to making me order one (I have plenty of time to send back the VIVE hardware, I haven't bought the Orion software yet, but my demo on it runs out tomorrow).
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By illusionLAB - 7 Years Ago
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I have experienced the BVH half speed too, and can't be bothered to figure it out as FBX works fine. Axis saves the capture file as RAW, so you can always export FBX or BVH. I can't recommend the iClone plugin, as they just sent me an e-mail last week saying they're 'discontinuing it' but I can "upgrade" to their Live plugin - not impressed with RL - add it to the pile with Kinect plugin and Indigo! PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you an Axis export of BVH and FBX files.
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By animagic - 7 Years Ago
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I would like to thank you again Mike, for going through all this. I happen to have bought the iClone PN plugin when it was on sale, and it would be nice to use it.
Thank you also, illusionLAB, for your comments. These are big investments, so user experiences are valuable.
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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IL is correct in stating that eveyone’s experiences vary. There’s another guy on the forum (Ibis Fernandez) who does mostly CT2d work and has a PN in his proper studio. Seemed that he was able to use it rather well. My results weren’t totally consistent. I use it quite a bit but mostly use it inside the iclone plug. And very quickly. Meaning I don’t spend days perfecting mocap, I do a lot of 48 hour film festivals so I don’t have time to clean anything up. I never really have issues with jitter. But I’ll have issues with a leg twisting around or a foot rotating weirdly. That means I’ve gotta re-calibrate. It used to be awful to put in all the neurons whenever I wanted to mocap, then out on the suit etc. But I sprung for Noitom’s anitmag case and now store the suit prices with all the neurons installed. It takes a while to get used to, but after putting the suit on a few times you get the hang of it and can put it on quickly. First few times... not so much.
I have a first gen suit and when I used it on some earlier work, the thing would drift like crazy, fingers would pop out and comtort in all sorts of crazy ways. I got with their support team and they were very helpful. I tried recalibrating the neurons, which btw is no simple fast task; but in the end it seemed like I had a few defective neurons. The suit drifted if I just laid it on the floor. They asked me to test each neuron individually. I told them I’d rather just send them all 32 of them and have them send me a brand new set of 32 that had been properly qa/qc’d. They agreed no problem. I have to say I’m much more happy with the quality of mocap now especially in the fingers. But it still has issues. Sometimes a fingers will get stuck here and there. Footsliding due to drift is my biggest issue. And also the movements not looking all that fluid. Pretty much all the animation in the short film on my signature file was done with PN in a single session in less than 2 hrs. You get a good feel of the uncleaned mocap from the iclone plug. Not jittery at all, but stiff. And pay attention to the hands. There is animation there but the fingers stayed locked in a few positions for a lot of the scenes. I just finished up another film festival but I’m not allowed to post the footage yet. The mocap in the hands was better this time around but I had significant drifting of the characters. They kinda floated around a little. That’s what I was really impressed by the Orion with. It appears to be natural, fluid motion without a bunch of drifting.PN does have a pro version now. It ain’t cheap but it’s supposed to give close to Xsens results and it’s magnetic resistant. There aren’t any reviews or videos on the system. I sle with Noitom and they said it would be compatible with the gloves later this year. We’ll see. Who knows???
Notion has a decent forum and their support guys usually answer your questions pretty quickly. You can always post questions there asking for advice as a possible customer? I’ve been happy with their tech support response. My experience with PN has been positive, but I was really looking forward to the possibilities with Orion due to the quality of KT’s tests. It looked better than what I’ve seen with my PN. Not so much less jittery, but more fluid andntrue to life. Not mush cleanup looked like was needed for the Orion to make a “believable” motion. With the PN that seems a bit more hit or miss for me. I’m currently offshore. But can always post samples of typical mocap out of the box with no cleanup. Just ask what sorts of movements etc. you’d like to see. I’ll be back on dry land next week. So feel free to PM me or post on this thread with the sorts of things you’d like to see. It’s a quick setup for me so I’ve got no probs helping out where I can.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks for all your info.
I'm still evaluating all my options. The problem, as I've mentioned, is the Orion does have some very odd behaviors that look and sound similar to what happens with the PN. In the case of the PN, I guess it's the little sensors that drift, or don't track properly for a moment, in the case of VIVE hardware it's that the infrared signals either bounce wrong or get blocked or some other. Oddly enough my very first test was the best, when I didn't have the lighthouses mounted and when my legs were adjusted wrong (so I was in a crouch). Since that time I actually made the room cleaner, and fixed the legs but that also seems to have made matters worse somehow.
I'm going to make one last pass at it this morning, but I'm also looking very seriously at the PN (I actually have an order in for it but it's backordered at the moment. Good news is it IS version 2.0, which only came out a few months ago, and that *might* be better in some regards). I will say this, though: the support for Orion is almost non-existent. They have a forum, which is about as dead as forums go (I still have three or four unanswered posts there). They do seem to have *some* support, but it's very minimal and mostly limited and I think the real issue is this is one of those: "It's not us, it's them" situations, since we have hardware and software coming from two different places. That's a REAL problem most of the time, and if the software wasn't so expensive it would be a different matter.
The PN and Orion/VIVE are about the same cost wise -- assuming the PN lasts a few years (about as much as you could hope for) it *might* start being cheaper in the third year, but I wouldn't hold my breath with technology this fragile. If you were already into VR and had the VIVE it would be a no-brainer to go that route and the hardware seems more robust, but it does have other issues (you have to charge each of the trackers separately and while they do last a long time it's still a PITA to deal with that). While I can't say for sure yet it seems like putting both systems on is about a wash -- while the VIVE is *mostly* easier physically, you do have to turn on each tracker, run Steam and sometimes there are issues with it finding them. And for sure the hands issue is crap -- while PN might have finger issues the VIVE have none at all (and I'm guessing even some fingers issues can be solved fairly easily in editing -- what happens when you put an iHand motion on top of the PN capture? I would suspect it would override it).
Anyway, I'll certainly post all my experiences on the hopes that it will help someone down the road (I wish I was younger because I can squint my eyes and see that eventually we will have such an amazing array of software and hardware the world will be ours. Well, yours, because I won't be in it anymore).
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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Well that’s disappointing. I was really interested in the Orion based on your first two videos. Noitom’s support was pretty good when I needed it. But I’d read on the forums where people had different experiences early on. I’m curious how much better version 2.0 is. I figure it’ll be better. If you do go the PN route be patient at first putting the suit together and on. It’ll take a while at first. Then you’ll be used to it. If speed of your thing (based on you posts it appears it is), I would get the anitmag case. That way you don’t have to install and remove your 32 neuron at the beginning and end of each session. Really painful for me. Once I get back on dry land, I’ll post some simple motion tears with no cleanup for reference.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Yeah, no one is more disappointed than I am, because now after watching someone put on the 2.0 suit I can see it's a LOT more complicated (so it's one of those "you had better settle down and do some mocap" rather than just a "I think I'll knock out some quick captures" sort of thing. I did order the magnetic case, because for sure I wasn't about to mess with those little magnet thingees. However, I'm now concerned my house nor the outside grounds isn't suitable for capture (magnetic readings show a minimum of around 47 Tesla, although web research indicates the earth itself averages around 50, so I'm not sure what the whole "you'll get the best results with a reading of 30" are all about).
Based on the videos I've watched, though, the PN does seem like it does a good job with capture even without cleanup, assuming you wear things properly (that point was stressed strongly). I also think it helps if you do this with a buddy, so I can see that I will need to have my wife assist for the best results (no big deal as I most likely would want her to do about half the motion work anyway). I *think* it might work for me assuming I can get the magnetic question answered, but we'll see.
(And I still am going to try one more time with Orion today, if nothing more than for my own curiosity).
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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Once you put the PN suit on a few times it becomes much easier. But yeah the first few times, you’ll think there’s no way that fool put the suit on that fast as he did in the video. I put it on and do motion captures solo. So you can do it with no help after a while. It is rather quick once you get everything down, so it doesn’t need to be a long planned ok tomorrow I will mocap.
But one thing to test out first when you get your suit is don’t even put it on. Put all the neurons in it, connect it and put all the components on the floor. Do the still pose and it shouldn’t move at all. Then monitor what the suit does in the Axis Pro software. At that point you should have a jumbled mess of an avatar. But.... it shouldn’t be drifting or moving at all. I had all sorts of issues at first when mocaping. After talking with customer support they suggested I do the above. My suit was still moving around in spots in the Axis Pro Software even though it was just lying on the floor. That meant it wasn’t a calibration issue, it was a coulple bad neurons issue. So they got replaced.
As far as Tesla readings, I had some odd places in my house with high readings. I found a spot with consistent low readings and that where I knock my mocap. You should be able to find a relatively benign spot in the low to mid 40’s. I found more than a handful. Oh and yeah finding something near 30 won’t happen. At least nowhere in my house.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks, really appreciate all the info. I'm sure it will get easier as I do it, but I'm not expecting it to be *really* easy.
And I am feeling better hearing about your magnetic reading experiences. I've been a little (okay, a lot) disappointed with the Perception Neuron forum where no one seems to answer anything and that question (not even mine originally) has been hanging about for years. I can see there are "hot spots" in my home, but nowhere does it seem like I could get close to 30's. Part of the problem is that meters to read this read EMF and not *just* magnetic per se. And we are bombarded by EMF -- a wi-fi router puts out a ton of it (so even the router you have to use for wi-fi for the suit will put out that kind of radiation). I suppose you might get some kind of "clean" room setup but I find it hard to believe that in any of the demos they are able to do that, so it's far more likely they are also doing captures with much higher levels than they recommend without issues.
And thanks again for the idea about testing the drift first -- that's really a good one. I've seen the video tutorial where he goes through a single neuron for testing and calibration, and it occurred to me to try this on all of them but then I thought, "Wait, wouldn't *they* have done this before shipping?" But I guess anything could happen in the shipping process. So I still might do that first.
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Well Mike, you'll be one of the 'few' to have tested both these setups one after the other - you'll have invaluable first hand experience ..... Will be interesting - will there be a 'clear winner' - or will it be 'close call' ? .... (of course this might not be a 'true' apples with apples comparison).
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Yes, that did occur to me (and, given my three years of experience with the iPisoft two Kinect capture system, I think I can make a good comparison of all three of the "major" low-cost mocap solutions).
I do think all three of these have enough in common to make a decent comparison -- while they differ wildly in how they approach the capture process, all of them can produce some very nice results with not a lot of effort, and all of them are in the same general price range (iPisoft being the cheapest). Given that they represent the three distinct types of capture you can do (optically, infrared, and IMU), it will be interesting to have used all of them.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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And, apparently, I'll have this to test a lot sooner than I thought (on the site it says they are backordered until 7/15, but I just got a notification it shipped today, and if shipped from Miami it shouldn't take more than a day or two to get here. So perhaps by Friday I'll be able to test this out. I will be reporting as things progress).
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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Great new Mike! I'm curious how much better the PN 2.0 suit will be compared to the first gen. I've dying to see how their Pro Suit stacks up to Xsens. It's billed as a cheaper version with similar quality of mocap at a fraction of the cost without the software payment. No fingers as of yet for that suit though and you must take the neurons off and put them on after every use. Still a pretty penny at about ~4k US. Eager to see your PN tests. I'll do a few once I get back on dry land. Honestly for me the power of PN is using it on avatars real time with the iclone plug since you're basically acting on a retargeted character so you can adjust your movements accordingly. I just wish the capture was a bit more fluid and with less drift. Oh well... we can't have it all on a budget after all!
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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This really is exciting Mike! - both for you AND those following this closely...
I was thinking - if both the 'Orion' and the 'Perception Neuron' end up yielding 'roughly comparable' results (*performance* wise), then it'd probably come down to 'ease of use', 'durability' and similar factors (regarding which you'd end up going with). - Let's just hope your PN kit performs as it should - and has no 'dud' Neurons! - an optimum experience 'straight out of the box', will certainly give a more *immediate* comparison... (great to hear 'kungphu's' findings also!)...
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By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
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I can't help it, I have to crowd the field some more! ;)
https://wearnotch.com
This is a Bluetooth on your phone capture solution( also works standalone). It is supposed to also have root motion capture. I got a sample of root motion from them and was able to characterize it for use in iClone.
It fits in your pocket!
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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Well Mike, seeing you're in the mood for testing .... lol .....
I thought this might be the answer to 'low budget' - but the 'Starter Kit' of this (Rampa's link), is $379 (one kit) .... - Not sure how many kits you'd need to *match* PN. Is that what you went with Rampa? - 1 kit? ... or 2, or 3? Maybe we could have a thread for this too ..... :)
Edit: I just re-read Rampa's post …. ".... I got a sample of root motion from them.... "
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By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
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I've been watching that one for a couple years now. No not really cheap, but potentially pretty good. I think you need 3 sets (18) for full body. You might get by with just 2 sets (12) though if you leave off hands and feet.
I'm going to keep just watching it, as it seems to develop rather slowly.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Yeah, I had seen that previously. Costwise it's similar to the VIVE (although software obviously is cheaper and not reoccuring). It was one of the "perhaps by the time my iPisoft license runs out it'll be ready for Prime Time" I had in my sights, but when I look at it it's a LOT of money for something without a track record.
In essence that's what you pay for with any of this -- you want something that has been through the grind of users and then refined to where it performs. There's no question PN has that (and Mr. K -- I don't think version 2.0 is going to be better other than they just improved the straps. The IMUs are still the same, and the software, while upgraded, can be used on version 1.0 as well).
Also -- hands are kind of important to me. PN is the only low-cost solution that can do them (even their $$$ Pro version can't do it). Yes, others have reported issues with it, but even if I just get halfway there it will be a tremendous improvement over what I can do now. As an actor I'm VERY aware of how important hands are to the acting process (which is why the whole Leap thing was such a disappointment to me, particularly when with just a little software change they could have fixed the biggest issue).
And -- as I said earlier, even if the PN turns out not to be my ultimate capture solution it will be nice to have, as you really can't have too many mocap suits (or at least you can certainly use two of them). If a year from now I decide to get something else but the PN is still working, that's good too.
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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You can always unload the suit on eBay if it doesn’t work out for ya. They pop up on there from time to time so there’s some people buying and selling them.
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By urbanlamb - 7 Years Ago
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well i have come to the conclusion that still my "old fashioned" ways are probably the best way forward with the exception of hands. Well its not just a recent conclusion, but the information has yet to change my mind. The thing with mocap is if its time consuming to clean it up i get that "i should just do it by hand its just as slow" feeling. The fact most of what I do is on the side of "cartoon" anyhow i have to do a lot of work reworking anything predone anyhow. So my only decision is between leap and the kit for hands from perception neuron.
Anyhow at the speed I go these days I dont need either right now and probably will end up keyframing hands as well. Although I have always found hands difficult to do manually. Anyhow thanks for the testing yet again. Although part of me is thinking you probably would get farther faster doing this manually as well at this point due to the time your taking to test things. It also must be getting expensive at this point.
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By Jfrog - 7 Years Ago
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I am a bit late at the party but I think the Perception Neuron has a reasonable amount of jitters but become more obvious when walking a little further away and turning around. If your feet stay still while you capture upper body motions or if you walk a bit you can get away without cleaning. (a bit like the movie I PMed two day ago). I did some tests today but had a crash while trying to swap characters and had no time to export anything.
Kellytoons, the things with the hands is they get magnetized really easily while using the mouse to capture your data. I think it is a great idea to try the perception neuron to make your own tests and see if you like it. Kungphu gave you a nice tip to troubleshoot the bad neurons from the start. Just plug everything and let it stand on a yoga mattress for a while then swap every neuron that seems to get off after 5 minutes. Then put the suit on and recalibrate every 2 or 3 minutes. You should have decent capture.
The first few time it might seems a bit of work but after a few times you will find it is quite easy to setup. The hardest thing when starting is to attach the arm strap with one hand. :)
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By kungphu - 7 Years Ago
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Ditto on the arm strap with one hand! But yeah, after doing it over and over you get a system down.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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It's being delivered today so I'll know pretty quickly (maybe not today since it's a tennis day, but tomorrow for sure). I suspect if I use the "two person" system of capture I can avoid hand issues (with my wife or I running it for the other there won't be any mouse/keyboard issues). We may well have "drift" due to the fact I can't find any place in our house that's relatively low Tesla (45-47 is about the average -- the garage is actually the best but it's way too hot right now to be capturing there. Perhaps this fall). As you say, I can recalibrate.
I also been told it makes a difference in capturing using Live in iClone (which I will *not* be doing) versus the native PN software -- some folks like it far better outside of iClone, with far less jitter and drift. But in any case the jitter won't bother me if I have to run it through WebAnimate, which others have used very successfully. In any case, by the end of the weekend I'll have a pretty good idea if this is going to work for me or not.
Lamb -- everyone has things he or she can do well, or like to do (usually -- not always, but usually -- if you are good at doing something it's something you like to do). I'm pretty lousy at animation, almost any kind of animation. Not really my wheelhouse (far better at lighting, direction, sound and writing, although not in that order :>). So anything which speeds up the process and/or makes it more "fun" is something very, very important to me. I know from working with various capture systems that even something that is onerous to use is better for me than hand animating. Also, more and more I get frustrated using canned motions -- it's just WAY too much trouble to have a character do a little something I want when the canned motion does the opposite. Or some such. So mocap is as essential to my process as, say, creating characters using CC might be to someone else. But everyone is different, and everyone has a different toleration.
I will say as an actor that getting "oversized" or cartoon motions isn't hard at all -- that's "acting" and that happens to be something I *am* good at (and, therefore, enjoy doing). Again, everyone is different and YMMV but really SHOULD vary <g>.
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By sonic7 - 7 Years Ago
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"..... I'm pretty lousy at animation, almost any kind of animation ...…… So anything which speeds up the process and/or makes it more "fun" is something very, very important to me ..... "
"Ditto Mike" - my thoughts too ….
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By urbanlamb - 7 Years Ago
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Kelleytoons (7/5/2018)
Lamb -- everyone has things he or she can do well, or like to do (usually -- not always, but usually -- if you are good at doing something it's something you like to do). I'm pretty lousy at animation, almost any kind of animation. Not really my wheelhouse (far better at lighting, direction, sound and writing, although not in that order :>). So anything which speeds up the process and/or makes it more "fun" is something very, very important to me.
I will say as an actor that getting "oversized" or cartoon motions isn't hard at all -- that's "acting" and that happens to be something I *am* good at (and, therefore, enjoy doing). Again, everyone is different and YMMV but really SHOULD vary <g>.
ah okay fun I can see :)
Truth be told though i have rarely used canned motions for anything there are a few things i could use them on but its usually more to test the character i just made rather then a movie or whatever. Canned stuff is pretty limited in its use and so either have to find a mocap solution or if your wierd like me (yes i admit i find strange things enjoyable) you keyframe your brains out. :D
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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I admire your ability to keyframe, Lamb, I truly do.
I used to be better at it in other programs. iClone for some reason I just still don't "get" the way I do Max, for example. I think I should be setting a hold keyframe and then, somehow, either it isn't or it doesn't hold the parts I want or... whatever. Every now and then I get it right (and then it seems like a bit of a miracle). Now, honestly, I just haven't spent the time I really should at learning it. Keep getting distracted by other things (like cool visuals or $$$ toys like facial mocap and such). I will continue to apply myself at it, but at this late stage in life I'm pretty resigned to thinking it's just one of those things I'll never master.
That's the nice thing -- we are all individuals and all can choose our own paths. I'm hoping the PN won't be a path I regret but I almost never regret the things I do (just the things I've never done).
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By JasonJ68 - 7 Years Ago
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I'm sorry I missed this conversation.... I have the PN suit 1.0 for a year and a half and I am also experiencing jitter, drifting and popping fingers.
Though I have gotten some really, really amazing captures from it. As well, I posted last year a very short YouTube tutorial about using Curve Editor to fix popping fingers.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Do you have the magnetic case? I was told that would help and it seems to do a good job, as I haven't had any problems (however I've only had it for about four months now, so perhaps as time goes by it will be more of an issue).
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