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By sonic7 - 6 Years Ago
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After several hours of searching for nice 'subtle' dust particle effects, the only pack I found that's any good was here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4navPjscJ9I
Upon downloading this (free) pack - (which are in .mov format), - popVideo was unable to create a 'pop' file from them.
I think it *may* be that these videos possibly don't have an alpha channel - though I'm not sure about this.
I tried (in vain) to do a 'Chroma Key' by sampling the background with the paint 'sampler dropper' - but it wouldn't key out at all.
Does anyone know a way around this? -they're really nice dust particle animations - they're 4K and absolutely *perfect* - yet I can't use them......
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By planetstardragon - 6 Years Ago
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the chroma key tools from hitfilm or vegas could help. - most popular video editing softwares have them .. hitfilm still has the free version
https://fxhome.com/express
the hitfilm chroma keyers may have the extra parameters you need to tweak to make it work. from there you can either export transparency, or change the background to green so that the pop video software can track it easier.....but this should be done at the video editing compositing level, because the popvideo chroma key tools are rudimentary in comparison thus you will inevitably lose quality in the process of importing it into iclone. Specifically because you need gradients, popvideo is good enough for standard chroma key with sharper edges, not dust clouds where the edges need detailed gradients vs linear edges.
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By illusionLAB - 6 Years Ago
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Sorry Sonic7, but you'll never isolate that dust effect with keying tools - they need to be composited with "SCREEN" or "ADD" which you won't get in iClone. If the particles have been shot over black, put that footage in your "opacity" channel and use a solid colour as the "diffuse".
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By sonic7 - 6 Years Ago
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Hey you Guys @planetstardragon @illusionLAB !!!!
I perceive the knowledge & experience of you both here !
planetstardragon .... I nearly went that route - of incorporating 'hitfilm' into my tool arsenal.
But, for reasons of "not having to deal with yet another program" I made the conscious decision to stay as close within the Reallusion work-flow as possible.
(That's simply me). Yes, tweaking the un-keyable pure black background to 'introduce' a color for keying - I'd wondered about that, but was concerned that the particles would be too small (fine) to use a color removing approach. I'd searched like crazy for a suitable transparent version - but no luck.
I get what you're saying about adding the effect at a later stage. I'm creating a total 'environment' complete with dust and haze etc first - then I'll shoot it. Sounds strange doesn't it - compositing first, shooting later .... but I'm wanting to give it a go.
Yes, you mention a good point regarding 'sharp' vs detailed 'gradient' edges on dust particles. This is where I *may* have to 'eat my words' regarding 'when' to do the compositing. 
illusionLAB .... yes, OK - I take your point about the problems of 'keying' small particles like dust. (By that I'm thinking you mean Chroma Keying?). I'm getting the feeling my options are to use:
● 1 a video with 'transparent' background
● 2 the 'screen or add' approach (conventional video editor or hitfilm)
● 3 the 'opacity channel' trick you mentioned ....
So I'll give ● 3 a try first, since it's the most direct (and dove-tails with my work-flow).
Thanks guys so much for your input - I'll update my findings later .....
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By sonic7 - 6 Years Ago
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@illusionLAB
I'm having difficulty getting your suggestion to work. (my .mov dust file is 'over black' background').
After creating a 'New Image Layer' in iClone (and selecting it), I double left click on the 'Opacity' box (under texture settings), to load the popVideo file into the 'Opacity' channel.
Further down the 'Modify Panel' under 'Material Settings' I set the 'Diffuse Color' to a solid color, bright yellow, (is that correct?).
But then, moving the opacity slider only 'blends' between 'proper scene levels' (left position) - to fully 'white' screen (right position).
It acts like a dissolve - there's no point at which the dust is cutting/blending through (in fact I don't see any semblance of dust at any setting).
Am I approaching this correctly?
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By illusionLAB - 6 Years Ago
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I'm not at my iClone computer... but from memory, I think I've only used this technique like this: Drag texture .mov into iC viewer whilst holding "right mouse button". Menu pops up with 4 options - I choose "make plane" (so the texture is affected by camera moves). Drag same .mov into "opacity" slot. Delete the "diffuse" slot .mov which makes it defer to the basic colour swatch controls. Opacity slider should work as expected. Once you have the plane in the scene, it needs to be the closest object to camera as the intersection with other scene geo is going to be messy - this, of course, means you'll need to scale the 'dust plane' down until it's just a little bigger than frame.
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By sonic7 - 6 Years Ago
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Thanks so much ---- I'll give that a try and let you know how I fare
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By sonic7 - 6 Years Ago
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Ok .... I found I had to crank the 'self Illumination' from 0 to 100 to get the dust to appear .....
As I slide 'up' the Opacity from 0, yes the dust starts to 'appear', but the whole set starts to 'dissapear'.
So the Opacity slider is acting like a 'cross fade' on a video editor. At the middle '50' mark, I have 'half strength' dust and 'half strength' set. 
I don't know why the set fades away ....
Edit: So with the 'Opacity' at 100, the full strength of the dust (white specs on black) - has taken over totally.
In this position, if I toggle the image plane 'on' & 'off' (ie: 'show' / 'hide'), it will toggle between 'full' dust (with no set) and full set (with no dust). So the white dust AND the black that they're sitting on - are 'both' cutting through the mix.
Update: I found the reason why the 'self illumination' was needed .... It was because the 'Diffuse' channel still had the popVideo file loaded in.
I'd earlier deleted it as per your instructions, but that had resulted in 'no dust' whatsoever regardless of slider settings ....
[when increasing the 'Opacity' - the 'set' had just faded to black (no dust)]. That's why I added the popVideo file back into the Diffuse channel.
So no joy - either way unfortunately .... I'm beginning to wonder if there could be something wrong with the popVideo file ....
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By illusionLAB - 6 Years Ago
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It sounds like "popVideo" is embedding an alpha channel into your file... since it has no "key" pulled it would be solid white - and since it's a proprietary RL format, iClone see chooses the alpha when dropped into the opacity slot. Try the same technique with a basic (not converted with popVideo) .MOV or .MP4 file to test.
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By sonic7 - 6 Years Ago
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Well done IllusionLAB! You were spot on with your guidance here ....
I used popVideo to export a Motion JPEG video file.
So here's the actual steps for adding 'dust' (or stars or moon etc), - using a Video file:
● 'Right click' on and drag a 'Video File' (not a popVideo file) into iClone's viewing screen and let go.
● From the menu that appears select 'Image Layer' and pull out the corner handles to fill the viewing area. (Using 'image layer' results in an identical dust pattern appearing on ALL camera angles. Alternatively, using 'Plane' would create a 'billboard' look and would be viewed at different angles on each camera).
● With 'Image Layer' selected (scene tab) go to 'Modify>Texture Settings, double left click on 'Opacity' and import the same file.
● Left click to highlight the 'Diffuse' tab and delete the file from that channel.
● Single left click on 'Opacity' again and (just above the 'Strength' slider), tick the 'Use sRGB' box.
● Now the 'Opacity' slider will give a full range from '0' (=no dust) .... through to '100' (=full strength dust).
Again, a big thanks to IllusionLAB - without his help - I'd be pulling my hair out !!!
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By illusionLAB - 6 Years Ago
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No problem - happy to help! I know you're keen to keep the work in iClone, but honestly as your project grows and your 'creative conscious' wants "more" or "better" (not to mention speed... iClone will soon bog down with a bunch of animated texture layers) you'll start looking at a external compositing program to finish the work.
I've said it many times on this forum, but Blackmagic's Fusion 9 is an absolute gift! It may look intimidating compared to AE or HitFilm but, in fact, as it's "node based" it's far easier to learn - which is why ALL the industry standard systems use nodes... in fact, I find iClone far more difficult to master as the ergonomics and workflow is incredibly convoluted - for example, "adding a QT of dust" into your scene ;-) eg. in Fusion... load render and dust footage - merge dust over render with "screen" blend mode - done! Render new "comp clip" in one of the dozens of available formats.
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By planetstardragon - 6 Years Ago
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i'm learning animation through iclone ....and from my perspective, all other softwares elaborate on the basics I've learned in iclone. From my view it's pretty intuitive as now in retrospect having learned more ...it's the basic elements of animation. From your perspective tho, I can imagine how it seems convoluted, because iclone is basically trying to summarize all the advanced options in more expensive softwares in just a few sliders. - basically for me, other softwares explode what iclone is doing, but from a software like say...modo, iclone is summarizing some of the things I can do in modo.
I find when I think of iclone as a type of compositing tool - it lets me get more creative being that I already know things I can't in iclone..- strangely enough understanding iclones limitations actually opens up far more creative possibilities. I was reminded of this after reading illusionlabs post about using a b/w video as an opacity map.... i started experimenting and came up with a few new ways of composing unique effects that i couldn't do as easily in a video editing software.
ie - taking a facial picture ....a b/w fire as the opacity map on a facecam billboard.....using a grunge video map in the blend ....then a few interactive particles in the background. - you could make it look like the face is coming out of the flames like that in 3D. as opposed to just doing a video cut out in compositor. iclone is deceptively simple and complex at the same time.
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By sonic7 - 6 Years Ago
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I think that there's more than one way to tackle any project, and the way a user approaches their project will depend on:
● the person's background, (experience / what they've used in the past / what they've been exposed to).
● the way differing tools 'resonate' with a particular person.
I've had nowhere near the experience in 3D than say Illusionlab (I can tell he's very experienced) and there's many others as well - not just in 3D - but photographic/cinematic/graphic/audiovisual/production/editing/artistic etc.
Because of these differing backgrounds (and 'mind sets'), I think we'll each feel more (or less) comfortable with a particular piece of software or approach.
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