CURRENT CONTENT UPLOADER WASTES MY TIME AND YOUR DISK SPACE


https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic365799.aspx
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By GrannyJ - Last Year
@Delerna

One simple solution, since RL made the requirement of a 512x650 thumb, is that then ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTS (CC, iC7, iC6, iC5) should have the "Capture Thumbnail" feature create a 512x650 thumb image - this would eliminate the need for developers to create new thumbnails for every stinking item they publish.  And since a lot of developers still create content for customers who only have older software versions, the patch should be written for all products. That would solve at least half of the issue.

Also seems rather ridiculous that the uploader requires a preview image at all, especially when a lot of packs have over 100 items & pack content items will never be sold as single, stand alone items.
My solution, especially when uploading a ton of items for a single pack, I create a single 1920x1080 image of an overview with everything and use that single image for every single item.
By Delerna - Last Year
Whats more.
If memory is serving me correctly it already insists we add these things as we construct our packs so there really isn't anything to add to packs to control it.
Its only if we decide to publish a single content that we upload. Something I don't think I will ever be doing.
By justaviking - Last Year
GrannyJ (4/18/2018)
My solution, especially when uploading a ton of items for a single pack, I create a single 1920x1080 image of an overview with everything and use that single image for every single item.


Clever girl.

Jumpt to timestamp 2:16-2:25

By GrannyJ - Last Year
Alley (4/18/2018)
Just a question - when I upload multiple items, I don't ever put anything in the thumbnail slot.  The only one you are forced to provide is the 1920 x 1080, right?  Therefore the thumb for individual items is whatever the software created - it's not pretty but if it's hidden content, what does it matter.  I am missing something?  I put the correct thumb size in when I create a pack.
Please don't tell me RL expect every hidden piece of content in a pack is supposed to also have the re-sized thumb.Doze

@Alley
First I was informed by the "powers that be" at RL, that all the thumbs had to be changed to 512x650 or the content would be removed; when I balked & sent them a rather blatant reply, as I had over 6,000 contents uploaded under the old image requirements & thought their new reqs should be a "from this point forward", I was then informed that the content with the older thumbnail size would not be removed, but it would also never be featured. Then they came up with the "drag & drop" in the store backend to change the thumbnails that was supposed to make the changes easier (because they are not the developers, they don't realize how long it takes sometimes to just get a decent thumbnail created), so I once again informed them I was not going to change all those thumbnails, to which the response was that product without a 512x650 would not only not be featured, but would not show up in searches when they were finished with their website updates. To which I responded that if they want 512x650 thumbnails, then they should send out a program patch for their software that created thumbnails that were the appropriate size they desired, which RL has not done.  At that point in the back & forth dialogue, I just gave up......
By Delerna - Last Year
A comment came up here that reminded me of this so thought I might as well say it now.

When I started with my store I got the content uploader. Each time I made something new I added all the items for it and upload the items only.  No images at all.
I did have to add a link to a uTube video though because I didn't add any images. I thought that was a bit silly because none of those contents were going to be published by themselves and the uTube would never get looked at from there...... but oh well its only a link so wont use up much disk space in reallusion's web server.
Anyway, the uploader automatically used the items Thumbnail from CC as their thumb in the store. I didn't mind that because it helped me to recognise each item when I created the pack. All of that was fine because as said none of those contents get displayed in my store. I just upload the contents, set them as hidden, create a pack, add all the items I uploaded into the pack, add my images, uTube and description text to the pack etc. Test the download of the pack will work properly for the customers. Publish the pack.

When I got the new item uploader the uploader now forces me to add 1920x1080 preview images and 512x650 thumbs.
I thought that was a bit silly because as I have said I do and as the majority of us developers also do. We don't publish the single contents we upload so surely all those images we are forced to add just so we can upload the contents we want to create a pack of must end up as a huge waste of disk space on your web server? Didn't say anything because, oh well, that's your problem not mine. However I am saying this now because what really annoys me about it is how much longer it takes to upload my contents now due to the size of the preview images. I only add one but I guess it gets re uploaded with each item I have added. I mean it takes heeps longer to upload my contents now than the old uploaded. Maybe its related to the lower speed of Australian intranet abilities but it is so annoying.

I get why you are forcing it. You want the contents to be displayed well in marketplace and I totally agree with that.
But surely it would be better to put the check for whether the pack or item has the images etc, that you desire it to have, in the stores  "publish content " or "publish pack" process rather than the upload content process. Let us upload just the content and force us to add the images, thumbs, description texts and whatever else you decide you want to make us add in the stores publishing process.  It would save you a lot of disk space surely?

By Delerna - Last Year
I am relying on memory here. Havent uploaded anything since Christmas. But I am pretty sure I had to add them or it wouldn't let me upload
I am getting close to uploading some new content soon so I will try not adding that to see. Maybe it has changed since I last uploaded?



EDIT
Oh, and totally agree with you on how they look. Who cares, they don't get published. That is my point. Why make us add any of them in the uploader before we can upload????????
Make us add them before we can confirm the publish?
By Peter (RL) - Last Year
mr_vidius (6/17/2018)
Hey Pete's, what the heck is up with the marketplace? it appears to be broken. can't navigate past the first page on both pack and item.

vidius


The Marketplace is working fine for me with Microsoft Edge. Which browser are you using?
By Delerna - Last Year
I was convinced the images get uploaded multiple times but I was wondering if maybe they only get saved once and each item just has a link to the 1 image 
So I just went into one of the contents I have in a pack (all 11 contents in the pack have the same preview image) and replaced its preview image with something else.
If each content just has a link to the same image then I would guess all 11 of them would get changed to the new image I just uploaded. No, only that one got changed. The other 10 still have their original image.

I am not complaining about this disk space getting used for nothing. Its not my disk so I really don't care, well I kind of do, I feel just a little bit guilty my contents are waisting their space but not much, it's not my decision how this is done. Just expressing my thoughts on it.
Also I believe the time it takes for my uploads is an Aussie Intranet abilities problem so not really complaining about that either. 

I guess I am really trying to make a suggestion to Reallusion that if they removed ensuring we add the needed images from the content uploader and put it into the publishing procedure instead then uploads would happen faster again and they wouldn't have as much disk space used up for no purpose. Anyway, that's it, that's all I was trying to do.
By GrannyJ - Last Year
Well, it was great to hear that the folks @RL are working to improve this trial process..... 
Perhaps they can tackle the content uploader issues at the same time.  Kind of redundant to require preview images that will never been seen to be added in the uploader when the developer will be creating the images required for use when creating the pack once the items have been uploaded.  It would certainly save a lot of space on the RL servers to handle it this way.  Even for developers who are selling "single items" - just have them place the single items in a pack, using the online create pack feature. Eliminate all image uploading from the content uploader (which will decrease upload time when all those LARGE images are not being uploaded).

As for trial stuff,  item count in packs vary from developer to developer, however, mine usually far exceed 10 & often exceed 100....  perhaps RL should consider allowing the developer to SELECT which items in the pack will be included in the trial download - for example, Master Builder has 425 items, but the user doesn't need all 425 to evaluate the pack - I could easily set 30-35 of those items to trial in the pack & that would provide the user with enough of a "peek" to make a purchase decision.  Perhaps the answer to the trial process dilemma is to place the "power" to decide what is triable in the hands of the developers?  Just an idea....
By Delerna - Last Year
Thanks for pointing that out, and yes that is what I always do

I didn't express what I do fully enough so I have adjusted how I explained my process more fully.
Going off memory here though so I still might not have said the whole process
By mr_vidius - Last Year
Peter (RL) (6/18/2018)
mr_vidius (6/17/2018)
Hey Pete's, what the heck is up with the marketplace? it appears to be broken. can't navigate past the first page on both pack and item.

vidius


The Marketplace is working fine for me with Microsoft Edge. Which browser are you using?



Hello Peter,
everything is working fine now. I have them all. IE, Crome, firefox, and edge. all of them showed the same result. but it seems to be working fine now.


vidius
By Lord Ashes - Last Year
Alley (4/18/2018)
Just a question - when I upload multiple items, I don't ever put anything in the thumbnail slot.  The only one you are forced to provide is the 1920 x 1080, right? 

As far as I know, you require either at least one preview pic or a YouTube link.

By Miranda (RL) - Last Year
I've replied to Lord Ashes' question via email, and would like to repost here for other developers.
The front end of New Marketplace will be similar as Content Store's, so the preparation of large-size thumbnails will definitely help when New Marketplace launches.

Lord Ashes (6/24/2018)
My issue with the new requirements is that the 512x650 thumbnail is hardly (never?) used, so why make it so large?
When I am browsing the Marketplace then the icons all appear fairly small (definitely not 512x650). Similarly when you click on some content, the header is large (although not 1920x1080) but the thumbnail is still small...not 512x650. Maybe I am missing something but it seems that the full size of the thumbnail is not used (or if it is used somewhere it seems to be fairly remote use), so why insist on such a large thumbnail?
Initially one might say "who cares"? But actually it makes a big difference if you are a content developer (like me) who likes to make animated thumbnails to showcase the content better. Unlike still thumbnails, which increase slightly in file size for an increased canvas size, animated thumbnails can increase dramatically in file size for an increase in canvas size. This means longer load times for a page which may contain multiple animated thumbnails.
I believe that the 512x650 requirement comes from the Content Store which seems to use bigger thumbnails...but in that case why not upload two icon sizes (like on Renderosity and other sites) so that the smaller animated thumbnail can be used in the Marketplace and the larger icon (possibly not animated) can be used in the Content Store?


By Delerna - Last Year
Hi GrannyJ, thank you for trying to assist me. Appreciate it.
If I understand what you are suggesting  (not sure because that is what I said in the first post so maybe I am misunderstanding your suggestion) 
then yes, that is what I do.

Add as many contents as I need for the pack I am going to publish into the uploader all at once.
Then I add a single preview image and a single thumb image into the uploader.

EDIT Adjusted the above to this
Add as many contents as I need for the pack I am going to publish into the uploader all at once. Then I select all of the contents, enter the settings for the items, add a single preview image, a single thumb image and add a simple description into the uploader so all items are covered by what I enter.


I don't care what the images are because no one except me is going to see it because I never publish those single items, only the pack they get added to.
That single preview and thumb then gets added to every item that gets uploaded (by the uploader, not me).

If memory serves me correctly, for me in Australia, the previous uploader used to take about 30 seconds to upload each content (depending on is file size of course).
So 10 items took about 5 minutes to upload
The new uploader now takes about 7 minutes to upload each item. So 10 items takes about 70 minutes to upload.
I am guessing this is because it actually re-uploads those 2 images 10 times, Once for each of those 10 contents.

That time is what I am pointing out. I know Australian internet abilities are much slower than American, especially uploading, so maybe you don't see this.

The other thing I am trying to point out is that single image is now seems to be stored in Reallusions server 10 times and they are all there for no purpose at all since they don't get published.
The single preview and thumb takes up about 4.5 megs of disk space and because they are saved 10 times (once for each item) that means 45 megs of disk space is used up for no purpose at all.
In the other post you mentioned one of your packs has 450 items. If those items were uploaded with the new size requirements and they are 4 megs each then 1.8 gigs of disk space is getting used FOR NO PURPOSE AT ALL because again, you don't publish the items. You add them all to a single pack where you add the actual images you want your customers to see. Yours and mine are just 1 pack of several items. There are many more developers with many more packs and it seems most of us have many items that don't get published alone. They only get published in packs. The amount of disk space these images we are made to upload with our items we put into packs must be huge. And they don't get used for anything.   What a waste of space?

By urbanlamb - Last Year
well if they are going to make me replace all that stuff (i started to panic when i read the first part and logged into comment and then finished reading so phew) but if they are making me replace all my thumbnails etc and since i am wierd and like to make mine fancy i guess I will upgrade all the content to pbr while i am at it.  /shrug I was thinking of repainting a few items anyhow.   I can understand that not featuring thing because its a standardized setup the screenshots and thumbnails would look strange and messy for their commercial purposes.   Soo this is a situation of marketting and aesthetics .. but the flat our removal was a bit panicy so glad they changed their mind.   

Anyhow looking at it from their point of view the reality is that they are trying to present their products and marketplace (which is theirs also hehe) and keep some quality control in for aesthetics the reality is that logically their argument makes sense.      I dont care if my stuff is featured but yes i can see how this is going to be a major chore for anyone with a lot of content who is building their brand and has a large presence already and is trying to maintain it.  This is when being a one man band is difficult.    
By Alley - Last Year
Just a question - when I upload multiple items, I don't ever put anything in the thumbnail slot.  The only one you are forced to provide is the 1920 x 1080, right?  Therefore the thumb for individual items is whatever the software created - it's not pretty but if it's hidden content, what does it matter.  I am missing something?  I put the correct thumb size in when I create a pack.
Please don't tell me RL expect every hidden piece of content in a pack is supposed to also have the re-sized thumb.Doze
By mr_vidius - Last Year
Hey Pete's, what the heck is up with the marketplace? it appears to be broken. can't navigate past the first page on both pack and item.

vidius
By Lord Ashes - Last Year
My issue with the new requirements is that the 512x650 thumbnail is hardly (never?) used, so why make it so large?
When I am browsing the Marketplace then the icons all appear fairly small (definitely not 512x650). Similarly when you click on some content, the header is large (although not 1920x1080) but the thumbnail is still small...not 512x650. Maybe I am missing something but it seems that the full size of the thumbnail is not used (or if it is used somewhere it seems to be fairly remote use), so why insist on such a large thumbnail?
Initially one might say "who cares"? But actually it makes a big difference if you are a content developer (like me) who likes to make animated thumbnails to showcase the content better. Unlike still thumbnails, which increase slightly in file size for an increased canvas size, animated thumbnails can increase dramatically in file size for an increase in canvas size. This means longer load times for a page which may contain multiple animated thumbnails.
I believe that the 512x650 requirement comes from the Content Store which seems to use bigger thumbnails...but in that case why not upload two icon sizes (like on Renderosity and other sites) so that the smaller animated thumbnail can be used in the Marketplace and the larger icon (possibly not animated) can be used in the Content Store?
By GrannyJ - Last Year
@Delerna-
If RL changed the coding in CC & iClone to capture a 512x650 thumbnail when saving a created project/prop/avatar/cloth, etc., then there would be NO NEED for the stupid thumbnail requirement in the uploader at all.

If you want one single image to cover all of the items you are uploading, then in the Content Uploader, in the left frame where it shows all the items being uploaded, you must select ALL OF THEM (& have them highlighted), then go over & input your single preview image & thumbnail.  As long as ALL of the items to be uploaded are selected, it will place that preview image & thumbnail on every single item (I know because I do this constantly).
Personally, I think it is ridiculous for RL to waste valuable server space for imagery which will never get viewed, since the individual items are never sold outside of the pack, but that's RL's problem.....  Yes, now that the imagery dimension requirements have been increased, the upload time has increased as well - which only makes sense, more bytes, more time, so yet again, there is just no efficiency in the upload process....  It's something we have all been dealing with for a long, long time.


By Peter (RL) - Last Year
Thank you for all the feedback in this thread.

Here is a little information from the Content team regarding the points raised:

1. If developers only sell the pack, no single items, then our Uploader will create the thumbnail for each item.  In this case, it is ok if developers don't want to update the thumbnail. But if they also sell the single item, they will need to update it.

2. Developers can decide to either put a ""Preview image"" or ""YouTube link"".

3. iClone will have an update to let the saved thumbnail size become 512*512. This should also help save time.