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By Dr. Nemesis - 7 Years Ago
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I check Youtube almost everyday for new films made in Iclone. I like short films the most, but these are extremely rare. The good ones anyway. Films like Trouble in the Tomb, which was made way back in Iclone 5.
Now we have Iclone 7. We have a great wealth of characters, sets, and props available from many sources, but still it's rare to find a good short made in Iclone.
So while researching what tool/engine to use for my movie, I took a look at Unreal, Unity, etc. What I found is that in the majority of cases, Iclone 7 can make these movies, either to a comparable or better visual quality.
The sad thing is many of these were made long before Iclone 7, which means we're only just catching up. But We're here now and I thought it would be cool to see a bunch of decent or good movies, that could totally be made in IC7.
I've included films made by 1 or a few people, left out stuff like 'Adam' and 'A Boy and his Kite', which took armies of people to make.
Lilly (Trailer)
This is Unreal, though it seems the guy also made a trailer in CryEngine. I think Iclone could get pretty comparable results to this.
Dave - Unreal
Made by 3 students
Craven Marsh - CryEngine
A pretty awesome short, made as a pitch for a feature length film, I believe.
Dystopia - Unreal
One of my favs for the futuristic feel. Done as part of a University project.
Iclone has been capable for a while now, but we so rarely get to see stuff like this made with it.
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on why you think that is.
What other cool shorts could now be made in Iclone 7?
*Editted to embed the videos
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By sjonesdc - 7 Years Ago
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First that came to my mind is "TIME"....
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By 《/^\》 - 7 Years Ago
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sjonesdc (2/8/2018)
First that came to my mind is "TIME"....
I agree, it can be tempting to publish a short film without really focusing on all the details that make it awesome
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By toystorylab - 7 Years Ago
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Nice "selection"...
I doubt they could be made in IC7 at least IMHO not in this render quality.
Esp. Craven Marsch and Dystopia...
Thanx for sharing!
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago
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toystorylab (2/9/2018)
Nice "selection"...
I doubt they could be made in IC7 at least IMHO not in this render quality.
Esp. Craven Marsch and Dystopia...
Thanx for sharing!
I disagree with you, it is possible with a bit of elbow grease, and I believe it is possible to do even better.
For one, check this:
ALIEN-The-Message-WIP-Diary
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By mtakerkart - 7 Years Ago
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Just posting some renders test of the 7.2 and seriously I'm not really ashamed of what it gives. I just begin with particles and I'm waiting
the very near enhancement of the PopcornFX 1.1 to start a serious project. GRACE had post some thread that are not accessible today.
Today the thing that will take the most energy to produce is writing a good story and performing with mocap all the characters.
Yes today with Iclone 7 you can achieve very good render. (the video is only 2k with youtube compressor...)
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By Rogue Anime - 7 Years Ago
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I was very impressed! ~V~
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By sjonesdc - 7 Years Ago
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toystorylab (2/9/2018)
Nice "selection"...
I doubt they could be made in IC7 at least IMHO not in this render quality.
Esp. Craven Marsch and Dystopia...
Thanx for sharing!
toystorylab,
"...not in this render quality." This statement may be true to some extent; but do we put the "render quality" way above the story???? Don't get me wrong..."watchability" or "render quality" does play an important role, but if the story is not very interesting, no matter how "impressive" the bells and whistles/render quality, no one will be interested in watching the finished product at all (except if the finished product is "advertised" as a showcase for the bells and whistles)!
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By Delerna - 7 Years Ago
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mtakerkart.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I just have to say this
Wow, well done. Been discussing recently how important a good story is in order to make something watchable, but I have watched this 3 times now and I will be watching it again. And I will be showing it off to some people at work to show iClones capabilities. No story (well there is a flow to it) BUT I REALLY ENJOY WATCHING IT.
So now I am wondering..........
One more thing, my wife does card making and she always points out all the things that don't look good and I always say to her...but I didn't notice that and the card looks great.
So seriously, as far as I am concerned, I absolutely agree with you, you have nothing to be ashamed of on what it gives
Maybe if I specifically look for problems I will find some? but because I just watched it for enjoyment I saw nothing wrong.
Yes you have shown that iClone, depending on the capabilities of its user, has fine quality rendering and you seem to also have good ability for presenting what it is you want to show
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By Dr. Nemesis - 7 Years Ago
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toystorylab (2/9/2018)
I doubt they could be made in IC7 at least IMHO not in this render quality.
Esp. Craven Marsch and Dystopia...
Then that's pretty sad cause Dystopia was made in Unreal 3. You really don't believe Iclone 7 can look better than an Unreal 3 film made 5 years ago?
In my own tests I'm learning that Iclone can look good, but it fights you first.
In Unreal 4 it seems to take much less work and knowledge to get a good looking scene. In Iclone, if you don't know how to light a scene, it's impossible to get a competitive result. In my pic below I have the same model, same textures, same materials on both models, same render settings. The big difference between them is lighting. I then used a LUT to get higher contrast (for the filmic look). On the left I was still learning (and I'm still learning now). I was pretty discouraged. I'm pretty happy with the one on the right but I need to solve all the shadow flickering in the video as she talks (I've already checked the box that's meant to suppress this).
grabiller (2/9/2018)
it is possible with a bit of elbow grease, and I believe it is possible to do even better.For one, check this:ALIEN-The-Message-WIP-Diary
Yes, from the guy who made Trouble in the Tomb, thanks for pointing that out. I agree that his WIP's are a great representation of Iclone's strengths.
sjonesdcdo we put the "render quality" way above the story???? Honestly I think we have a problem with both. I strain to find examples of good story in Iclone films, as well as good visuals. There seems to be the idea in this forum that there's a preoccupation with graphics. A good story is great but then why tell that story with substandard renders when the capability to do better is technically there? 
mtakerkart (2/10/2018)
Just posting some renders test of the 7.2 and seriously I'm not really ashamed of what it gives. I just begin with particles and I'm waiting
the very near enhancement of the PopcornFX 1.1 to start a serious project. GRACE had post some thread that are not accessible today.
Today the thing that will take the most energy to produce is writing a good story and performing with mocap all the characters.
Yes today with Iclone 7 you can achieve very good render. (the video is only 2k with youtube compressor...)
Thanks for this, mtakerkart, you have some great examples.
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By justaviking - 7 Years Ago
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@Dr. Nemesis,
That was a great side-by-side comparison. Excellent results.
Thank you for sharing it.
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By headrushindi - 6 Years Ago
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I think that peoples expectations are as varied as sands on a beach..You have some out there who are (pureist's) in a sense , and hack everything to pieces in the film world if it doesn't meet their ideal measures and rules of what THEY consider good film making.I have even seen posts where someone even had the snobish audacity to state that (Unless you can create a cinematic masterpiece that meets the status quo, (whatever that is ) then you should leave ICLONE alone and let the professionals handle it. It is this kind of snobbery that leads to the stifling of creative thought in cultures. remember, Historically , the most memorable of (anything ) in POP culture were almost always the very ones that were berated, and told by the "PROFESSIONALS" that their efforts would never amount to anything.
A good example to the flip side of the Pureist's coin would be TROMA films headed by Lloyd Kaufman...who was beat down by the naysayers at nearly every step of his career, but in spite of all the opinions and "learned" professionals out there STILL became a legend and cult phenomenon weather we liked it or not . So I tend to ignore most peoples opinions and hold tight to a simple philosophy...Art is Art......be proud of what you have created...and always strive to make the next better.I create ICLONE movies.They can be found on you-tube under the name iclone movies by headrushindi...I love commentary both positive and negative..but I don't live for it ..nor do I subscribe to those opinions in most cases. ICLONE is a tool to express your self...the stories you have inside , or the ideas lingering in your soul.My whole concept of creating film with ICLONE is akin to the way a regional or local theater operates in a community.They begin with nothing but a script or idea, they canvas the community enlisting whatever help, and creative souls they can find in the local arts centers or schools...and they plaster together a production from the collaboration of the many talents they can find...its just that simple.So god bless all of you who are (professionals) and create at a different level of perfection.. I love that too, I can enjoy it, and can appreciate and learn from it ...but never get too snobby that you crush the creativity of the little guy out their who just spent his last dollar on ICLONE because he loves the creative process, and the act of creating art for art's sake. because that little guy we pee on on the way up the ladder , may be the very one that passes us again on the way back down when we fail to be what our expectations have set for us ....There is a place in ICLONE and in the world for all artists ......lets remember to encourage , not to destroy on the way .PS: I am not making this comment because i feel the Post here is berating anyone ..I am just expressing my response anytime i hear anyone band about their concepts of what is acceptable in film making.
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By dante1st - 6 Years Ago
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Most iClone videos on YouTube consists of random avatars dancing, or some quick "showcase" of random avatar in a random location with no explanation.
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By AutoDidact - 6 Years Ago
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dante1st (11/3/2019)
Most iClone videos on YouTube consists of random avatars dancing, or some quick "showcase" of random avatar in a random location with no explanation.
@Dante1st What you have asserted can be said of very nearly every poser or Daz studio animation on YT as well. The ability to quickly& easily cobble together some motion clips or import some BVH mocap is great fun for the hobbiests and tinkerers that are the majority of the Iclone /Daz /poser user base. Short/feature length filmmaking requires knowledge of cinematic shot framing and many other long established principles along with story and a narrative I would estimate that most , who use these programs, do not have such aspirations and that is perfectly fine IMHO... to each thier own.
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By wildstar - 6 Years Ago
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The problem is not iclone, but the community. More concerned to looking at software problems than seeing its own limitations as an artist, reallusion currently slapped the community with bridge to unreal. several people used it, and what did I see? More iclone animations, rendered in unreal, nothing more. my last iclone x unity test was in animation that I did as keyframes animation training. matrix reload Once ready I saw and thought: damm I can do the same in iclone. I am currently working on two short films, which unfortunately I will not be able to post on youtube because they will compete in festivals in my country. but I will send some pictures. one of the two I will use iclone the other unity but not for the sake of rendering quality because I find everything very similar today. but for the extra features I have with particles in unity, there are several scenes that I will need to make a path to particles, something impossible to do with popcorn inside iclone.
my angels short pics
    
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By wildstar - 6 Years Ago
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the actual iclone version is perfect for me. with just some things need to be corrected
1 - activate TAA to render frames and put the actual supersampling algoritm in HELL!
2 - more fast render for 4k resolutions.
3 - correct the discrepances between render in full screen to the viewport.
4 - put individual controls for light and reflections on ibl slider.
5 - put out HBXAO+ and use VXAO or put option to setup the ao by camera shot. like we can do on unity or unreal,
6 - more softshadows, to be more exact, use the same softshadow algoritm used on toolbag 3 or nextgen softshadow script on unity.
7 - SSR ! PLEASE!
this is the unique problems on render features actualy for me ( thinking about, SSS is comming) but perfectly avoidable. i can do my work without that.
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By AutoDidact - 6 Years Ago
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The people who need the abilities of external program for their final renders have alot of options right now. I do not complain about what Iclone is lacking because RL has made it very easy to move my Character body motion Data to the other figures & programs that fit my VFX & final delivery render needs. Game engines such as Unity have become powerful Character motion building & editing tool themselves with highly affordable products such as "Umotion Pro" for retargeting /editing and "Final IK" for realtime ragdoll physics. and of course they have affordable assets in the Unity& Unreal Market places. I am happy to see the pace of development of all of these tools. At some point Reallusion may have to re-evaulate their current pricing to be realisticly competitive going forward IMHO.
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By wendyluvscatz - 6 Years Ago
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AutoDidact (11/4/2019)
dante1st (11/3/2019)
Most iClone videos on YouTube consists of random avatars dancing, or some quick "showcase" of random avatar in a random location with no explanation.@Dante1st What you have asserted can be said of very nearly every poser or Daz studio animation on YT as well. The ability to quickly& easily cobble together some motion clips or import some BVH mocap is great fun for the hobbiests and tinkerers that are the majority of the Iclone /Daz /poser user base. Short/feature length filmmaking requires knowledge of cinematic shot framing and many other long established principles along with story and a narrative I would estimate that most , who use these programs, do not have such aspirations and that is perfectly fine IMHO... to each thier own.
LOL I do those sorts of videos using UE4 too
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By Dragonskunk - 6 Years Ago
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The matrix recreation was animated without much attention to weight and acceleration, nothing feels impactful or feels like there is mass. It's like marshmallow matrix. But the consistency of design between characters is a nice touch.
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By raxel_67 - 6 Years Ago
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My guess as why we haven't seen many iclone films that are good is that in order to make a decent short film you need the following:
1) PATIENCE. Something hard to find in people now a days. One example of this would be iray, there are many people that claim it is not suited for animation because it doesn't render quickly enough, which it actually does, it is quite fast, i just rendered 2400 frames in a day and half with one computer and one gpu, think about it, same scene but with software tech from only 2 or 3 years ago would have taken me a week to render the same thing even with my current computer. Now think about how many things must be done in order to make something you can watch and say "oh that looks really good". Even with all the tools that iclone has and its no bs approach to make your life easier it still takes time and patience to do something good.
2) Teamwork. You can't do everything by yourself and you can't certainly do everything well. You might be good at lighting but not so much at animating, you could be a great animator and a big fat turd at modelling. You can be great at texturing and suck at rigging, you can be a great editor but you have the ear of a blacksmith when it comes to audio. Know your strengths and your limitations and team up with people that compliment your weaknesses. If i was to participate in the making of an iclone short film i wouldn't even open iclone at all, why? I'm an audio guy, sound is my thing, my passion and my strength and i do it at a pro level, animation? i wish i was an amateur, texturing? i'm a little below amateur, modelling? you don't want me near that i suck at it big time, rigging? not a freaking clue, lighting? maybe i can manage some of it. My point is no one excels at everything and you need other people to fill in the gaps. I used to do animatics for ad agencies, i did most of the iclone technical stuff, along with lighting, and some texturing, but for animation i used an actual animator who knows traditional animation, even if we were using some mocaps, because if i did the animation no one would have been payed and probably we would have had some legal issues.
That's not saying you can't do your own films, sure you can and you should just for the fun of it and finding out what you are good at and what not, what do you enjoy and what you hate. But keep in mind something, some part of it will always be amateurish.
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By wildstar - 6 Years Ago
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Dragonskunk (11/5/2019)
The matrix recreation was animated without much attention to weight and acceleration, nothing feels impactful or feels like there is mass. It's like marshmallow matrix. But the consistency of design between characters is a nice touch.
i agree, the problem is in the iclone version i make this animation was impossible refine the animation at end. just cause all project was running at 1 fps. cause iclone in that version 7.4 i believe, big motion clips, many keyframes , many cameras, more than 2 avatars, slow down iclone, this dont happen anymore on actual version.
so for sure i will refine more this animation. very soon and totally render o iclone
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By Dragonskunk - 6 Years Ago
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I gave myself 6 month to finish my animation project in January... I still need to animate another 3minutes.
And if I do more than 10 second a day I know I'll have to go back and render it again as I rushed my work and it needs more refinement. And that is before the animation director looks at my work. There will always be an aspect that will need a fresh pair of eyes on your animation as you go blind to your own shortcomings when you do it all by yourself. Preferably, if you are serious about animation you must find a talented animator to check your work if you work alone.
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By wildstar - 6 Years Ago
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ok thx. :) can you show me some of your animation work ? , its always good to see talented work for inspiration.
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By 4413Media - 6 Years Ago
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Most things I noticed in flawed iclone is poor lighting, framing, and set design.
There's one thing that I rarely see anyone talk about and to me, it's one of the critical components of film making. Good 'acting' in iClone. In dramatic works, at the right moment; a good CU with the right facial expression is the way to hook your audience in. I rarely see that, maybe a handful of directors utilize this with iclone. Most flawed work over-exaggerates it to holy hell or there's nothing leaving them just with a blank expression. Many others don't 'match the animation with the voice.' They stand frozen still or flail around madly in the wrong moments.
You can have all the nice things done right, but if your avatars can't act... it tends to ruin the film.
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By Dragonskunk - 6 Years Ago
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wildstar (11/7/2019)
ok thx. :) can you show me some of your animation work ? , its always good to see talented work for inspiration.
Here is my first voice acting attempt.
During a ensign training exercise an android gets possessed
by an ancient captain but doesn't realize his situation.
This is an animation test based on dialog I found online.
Early days when I was still tweaking the designs of these characters.
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By AutoDidact - 6 Years Ago
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The matrix recreation was animated without much attention to weight and acceleration, nothing feels impactful or feels like there is mass. It's like marshmallow matrix." No matter how sincere ones effort, there really is no convincing way to hand key frame the randomness of Character Ragdoll physics. The vestigial poser program has had Python scripting since 2003 I was creating ragdoll hits and falls over 13 years ago with poser
As Iclone now has a Python ,perhaps some clever programmer might give Iclone users this option at some point as it is sorely needed IMHO.
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By brainsconcept.webs - 5 Years Ago
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7sn2GbSyjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7sn2GbSyjE GUYS CHECK THIS OUT... IT WAS ALL DONE IN iCLONE AND WE HAVE A FULL SEASON OF 31 EPISODES
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By james_muia - 5 Years Ago
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Making films is time consuming. If you're actually trying to make something with good quality, you're going to spend a lot of time scene building, and making sure the lighting looks good. Then you've got to design your characters, and animate everything. Then render everything out. Then when you finally have everything rendered, you get to spend a massive amount of time editing the film to add sound effects to everything. Let's not forget the many hours of trial and error, when things don't work and you've got to try something else. It's a massive undertaking. Oh did you have voice actors? Because now you've got to work with them to provide you with the lines, again more time.
IClone doesn't help the time it takes to produce movies, because the engine is slow. It slows down to a snails pace in pretty much every scene I make (and I decimate/low quality as much as possible, wherever possible).
If Reallusion can improve the engine without it slowing to a crawl, I think you'll see more movies being made.
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