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By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
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This looks pretty interesting from a clothing design point of view. It's only just getting off the ground now, but is a simpler to use concept for most people than Marvelous Designer.
https://artfulphysics.com
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Didn't you (or someone else) share this before?
While it looks... interesting... it also looks like a one-trick pony to me. Which is to say only a certain type of clothing can really be patterned this way. I'd also be curious as to the workflow for this to use for iClone (the workflow for getting hair into iClone almost killed me, and while I can do it now fairly easily I'm not at all confident I could master clothing -- this is particularly evident when I see what's offered in the marketplace, which rarely is of the quality of things that RL themselves provide. If THOSE experts can't do it, I'm pretty sure someone like me can't either).
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By illusionLAB - 7 Years Ago
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Looks like it could be brilliant! A step in the right direction - honestly, I don't understand why MD hasn't figured out that every possible piece of clothing ever concocted could start from a 'template'... dressing people has some pretty standardized conventions (neck.torso, arms and legs... done!) ;-)
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By TonyDPrime - 7 Years Ago
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Just a tidbit -
I think for any non-clothing designers, the interesting piece of this is that it requires a Daz Genesis 3 model and is aimed at working in Daz Studio.
Daz now, as of 4.10, has dForce simulated cloth, so maybe it will be interacting with this somehow, and that may mean that it will in some way shape or form bridge into 3DXchange, ultimately.
So you could have people designing clothes on ArtfulPhysics that make there way into iClone as a Softcloth, or product in the Marketplace.
I know for 100% certainty that KT is going to be creating some amazing clothing when this is all said and done!
Prepare to be dazzled and amazed! 
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By SeanMac - 7 Years Ago
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illusionLAB (12/6/2017)
Looks like it could be brilliant! A step in the right direction - honestly, I don't understand why MD hasn't figured out that every possible piece of clothing ever concocted could start from a 'template'... dressing people has some pretty standardized conventions (neck.torso, arms and legs... done!) ;-)
I don't think so, illusionLAB, with all due respect.
Most iCloners seem to be interested in only contemporary, modern themes. A few are interested in the kind of Fantasy Dark Ages you get in Lord of the Rings. But if you are interested - as I am - in say the 18th century with its wigs and breeches, or in the 19th century with its eccentric varieties of facial hair, or in the 15th century with the kind of clothes they wore under full plate armour being worn as 'smart casual' then Marvelous Designer is a must-buy.
I suggest that there is a heresy of history called 'presentism' about. This presentism is where people imagine that the past was very much like the present but just with fewer gadgets. This picture of the past turns out not to be the case.
Clothing encompasses a lot, a lot, of innovation and technology. The simplest clothes were rectangles taken straight off the loom and stitched and cut as little as possible, They were handed down through the family for decades, because they were extremely costly in work-hours and money to make. Yet they still constituted signals of wealth or poverty however low the average clothing was in terms of complexity, quality, colour and status.
I suggest the real kicker is fashion. Fashion happened in Western Europe but nowhere else in the world. People in, say, Japan, wore exactly the same cut of clothes for a thousand years.
We are all used to looking at Old Masters, great paintings of the Italian Renaissance. And looking at the rich, colourful robes the middle-aged or the old men wore, and the ballet tights that the young men wore. But it seldom occurs to us that what we are looking at is the top one percent of society.
95% pf people lived out in the country on farms all across Europe, They wore whatever the wife could rustle up, The urban poor wore work-clothes that looked like the tunics of Ancient Rome more than a thousand years before. Those ballet tights the rich young men had on were the equivalent of today's cap-turned-backwards to show you are ready for a fight. The tights indicated that you were ready to climb into plate armour, mount a horse and go into battle. Of course the likelihood was you wouldn't - it was just the fashion of the time. But if you are really going to imitate these conjoined hose that I have called tights you have to understand that they are not of a piece but jigsawed together to fit a single individual.
Not only that, but they were worn for about a year then sold. These guys treated clothes the same way we treat automobiles - you resell to part fund another one. And so it went. There was a guild organisation in 15th century Florence especially for second-hand clothes sellers. Obviously everybody could easily tell if you were wearing second-hand clothes,
Someone on the forums mentioned that a movie scene without extras is not a movie scene. People are astonishingly good at noticing little signals from the look and feel of a scene, The clothes and body language, I suggest, are a large part of what makes a viewer get drawn in and decide to keep watching. When I look at the movie scenes and the career clothing on the Content Store I can tell that they are dated. There are plenty of people around who are much more observant than I am and they could probably tell you what continent and what year you are looking at.
So no. Dressing people does not have some pretty standardized conventions (neck.torso, arms and legs... done!) ;-) or no ;-)
Regards
Home Built in Coolermaster ATX case with GigabyteGA-Z170X-GAMING 7 MoBo, i7-6700 @ 3.4 Ghz, Asus GeForce GTX 1080 Ti GraphicsCard, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, an Acer CB241HQK & a Samsung S24D300 monitor, Huion H610Pro Graphics Tablet, Kinect v2, Logitech C920 Webcam, Win 10 64 Bit OS
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By TonyDPrime - 7 Years Ago
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I am not a 3D clothing designer. How long, though, does it take to start from scratch in MarvDesigner to a finished product?
I guess for like a full angle length dress, loose at bottom but tighter everywhere else with long sleeves, a V-neck line, let's say 1 colored fabric. a lighter colored pattern on the side, working from a 2D reference image.
20 min, 1/2 hr, 1 hr, 5 hr.....?
And how long with a 4D reference image (L, W, H, Time), where you actually see the creation of the dress on a video, and then it hung on a mannequin...would a real life creation-counterpart reference help, or not.
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By SeanMac - 7 Years Ago
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for that.
It doesn't take very long aty allonce you get slick and if you are willing to cheat a bit. You don't need mannequins MD lets you import with FBX so you can dress the CC avatar you have created.
If you take a look on Youtube for Lori Griffith you can get a very quick idea of the potential of the MD set up. They also have a content store you can check out and free trial periods.
Regards
SeanMac
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By vidi - 7 Years Ago
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That video above do not impress me really
I don't understand why MD hasn't figured out that every possible piece of clothing ever concocted could start from a 'template'..
I think MD was made for serious Fashion Designer, that want creatoe its own pattern, but in the meantime has MD also a clothes construction kit.
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By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
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Vidi,
Are you saying that MD comes with a clothes construction kit, or that you can make one? The video you show seems to show how to make the various "blocks", and at the beginning it shows how someone is using them, but I don't quite get that MD HAS all those blocks.
I think I tried it once -- I downloaded a demo a couple of years ago and gave up, as sewing clothing was clearly not My Thing. But the clothes that are made from MD look so much better than simply draping cloth as Rampa's first link shows -- it really makes a difference to have those tucks and darts that clothing makers put in to make things fit. I'm just not sure I'm able to figure all that out, so dragging and dropping components seems to be at least a possibility.
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By SeanMac - 7 Years Ago
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I think MD was made for serious Fashion Designer, that want creatoe its own pattern, but in the meantime has MD also a clothes construction kit.
[/quote]
Hi Vidi thanks for that.
I thought that MD could be used for fashion design professionally also, but the company has another up-market program suite for that.
Lori explained for the likes of me what the difference is in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PGADNJEdeo Marvelous Designer Doesn't Create Real-World Patterns
And she tried her hand in this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsbfxAa4NfQ An MD Test with Real Sewing Patterns
Regards
SEanMac
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By vidi - 7 Years Ago
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Are you saying that MD comes with a clothes construction kit, or that you can make one?
both are true
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By TonyDPrime - 7 Years Ago
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Maybe one of the advantages ArtfulPhysics will have over MD is that you can make a piece of clothing that can fit/drape over any avatar shape type?
Like, if you make a dress, then you can place it on the mesh and see how it 'falls'/fits, as opposed to fitting a a garment onto a shape and designing.
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By illusionLAB - 7 Years Ago
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OK, I hadn't seen this "modular" system before... not surprisingly as it's only just appeared in MD7. I had tried MD6, and as powerful and responsive as it was there was still far too much dependence on "knowing how to sew". My point was, and remains, the "goal" is to dress a character - so starting with a garment already on the figure is far more accessible to the majority of CG artists who have know experience making 2D patterns that are meant to fit a 3D figure. The appeal of iClone and especially Character Creator is that people with no previous 3D experience, whether it be animation or character modeling, can actually create things they imagine without years of dedication to learning the thousands of skills and techniques previously needed. My point about the constraints of the human figure are valid... we have a torso and five appendages as a starting point - so regardless of fashion, period, materials etc. there are always common factors to clothing regardless of the potential variances. So, start with a t-shirt base - extend the sleeves, vary the width, add cuffs, add collar etc... real time resizing of all individual components of garment, on the figure, is far quicker and easier to get your head around than drawing abstract shapes on a flat surface. There is room for more than one clothing creation software out there... my money is on the one that has the easiest learning curve to get a good result - at the right price. If the Marvelous Designer people are listening... they should make "Marvelous Designer Modular" for us artists who want to make usable clothes quickly without having to learn to sew - priced around $99 ;-) While they're at it... a "Marvelous Designer Hair" could be a whole new market for them as well.
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By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
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AF is in it's infancy right now. It's the combination of simplicity and really-good physics that makes it work. It can't do any fancy finishing work yet.
The reliance on G3 is minimal. I mean, it only needs a G3 base to export for. The actual export is OBJ. There is a handy import option added to DAZ that lets you instantly re-import that OBJ onto the figure.
It is experimental, and best for those who want to experiment. It is not fine-tuned yet for iClone. For example. The mesh resolution is very high, and consists of two layers. The two layers is just to give it thickness.
So, it's lots of fun, but don't expect it to be a turn-key solution today or tomorrow. But further down the road.
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By vidi - 7 Years Ago
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Maybe one of the advantages ArtfulPhysics will have over MD is that you can make a piece of clothing that can fit/drape over any avatar shape type?
Like, if you make a dress, then you can place it on the mesh and see how it 'falls'/fits, as opposed to fitting a a garment onto a shape and designing
this is possible in MD
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By TonyDPrime - 7 Years Ago
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vidi (12/9/2017)
Maybe one of the advantages ArtfulPhysics will have over MD is that you can make a piece of clothing that can fit/drape over any avatar shape type?
Like, if you make a dress, then you can place it on the mesh and see how it 'falls'/fits, as opposed to fitting a a garment onto a shape and designing
this is possible in MD
Okay, I looked at the videos and I see this now.
Maybe then one of the advantages of ArtfulPhysics over MD is that...Umm...
...that its name is earlier in an alphabetical list of clothing-designing softwares.
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By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
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After floundering around for a bit with multiple material, I finally simplified my process to something that works. My first rendering is not optimized at all, and I went ahead and left the mesh a DAZ resolution level.
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By SeanMac - 7 Years Ago
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Hi Rampa
That's a fine rendering, thanks for that.
The dress and shawl would do for Greece and Rome in ancient times. The material folds well, though not in quite the same way as the classic era statues show (They used different material threads for the warp and the weft of the material.).
Your dress does not quite reflect the physical and economic limitations in that the ancient chiton fell straight from the shoulders and was cinctured by a knotted belt at the waist or higher.
I do realise this was not what you were attempting. What I was wondering was whether or not the program can allow you to have such a belt.
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By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
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Here is another garment I was able to create with this tool. Note that it is a single garment, as was the previous.
You can download and play with it yourself.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PPOSSRUnPHDBfgntZY_pWYFUh3UCuCwC
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By CtrlZ - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks Rampa you are awesome!
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