IC7.1 - Keys split with move on existed projects


https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic348127.aspx
Print Topic | Close Window

By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
The keys are getting split with move on any of my existing projects. Particularly a copy of the torso key is left behind. For now I just delete them (not sure if it is safe).
But working on existing projects is quite annoying, specially if you try to move multiple keys.
I cannot replicate that on new projects though.

Is anyone else getting the same?




UPDATE: Figured it out! Some tracks were influenced by newly installed Curve Editor!

The fix to the problem if you ever experience it:
Right click on the affected track > Curve Editor > Convert to Curve Data

After this option was applied it turned gray (no longer can be selected).
So if it is available, then the track is affected by "split-key" effect as I call it.

I am yet to start using Curve Editor and figure what "
Convert to Curve Data" option is actually intended for.




By mark - 7 Years Ago
I can't seem to replicate that issue but I can't seem to CTRL L Mouse drag to duplicate a single  keyframe like Torso or Head anymore like I used to.

P.S. The more I play with it ...sometimes it duplicates and sometimes it doesn't ...at least for me!!!
Legacy project scenes with avatars seem to allow "CTRL L Mouse drag-duplicate" just fine but newly created project's with avatar's won't allow me to "CRTL L Mouse drag" to duplicate a key  or duplicate/paste a key anyway I try like CTRL + C or CTRL + V

THESE are CC avatars
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
Thanks for looking into it Mark. I got some new data. It is actually persistent on some of the old projects.
Projects created in IC6 are not affected at all and about 50% of IC 7.0 - 7.02 projects are affected/infected with this "virus".
It is not avatar related. If I bring a new avatar into affected project and create some key-frames they are all OK.
But If I replace affected avatar with any other it inherits this bizarre behavior. And I cannot see any clear pattern.

As to replicating keys with Ctrl + L-mouse as you mentioned, I get this sometimes. There is something wrong with torso key data I think.
A lot of times replicating torso key ended up replicating some other random bones like arm or head. And moreover iClone crashes a lot
on replicating, copying or deleting keys.

RL made a huge investment into timeline amendment and improvement. So this sorts of bugs are unavoidable I suppose. Hope it all would be fixed and cleared in the next update.
By Jfrog - 7 Years Ago
When copying and pasting transform keys, I had a problem at least 20 times in two days. but a bit different than yours. Basically the second key position where i want to past my transform key get stuck to my mouse and is dragged along while moving the mouse. I use many undos while working. This is with an Iclone 7.02 project I am finishing.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
I think this is a little different Jfrog. Ok, here is a small project I am having a problem with. See if anyone else is having the same.

1. Bring Katie to the timeline
2. Move any of her bones
3. Move newly created key along the timeline
4. Tell me what happens
5. Alternatively, double-click at any existed key root to fill the hollow and again move that key along the time line.

Katie-walk



By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
A hollow key is when there is data on fewer then the XYZ tracks for that body part at that frame. A solid key means there is data for all 3. That's normal. You often want transform data only on x, for example. So when you double-click, you are actually creating a new key at the same time. Try doing your process without adding a solid key first.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
Well, that is the thing Rampa, whether I create a new key (which is hollow by default) or double-click on existed one within attached project, the result is always the same. As I move that key along the timeline, it splits leaving a single hollow torso key behind. Always! I do not really care about attached project. I posted only for someone to test it. 
But I am currently working on a large project , which behaves exactly the same. Most annoying!
By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
It may very well be just cleanup issue too. It might be drawing an extra key that is actually empty. Makes the timeline a little more cluttered. Have you found that it actually does anything? I would just delete them too. Smile
By justaviking - 7 Years Ago
I've had "empty" keys left behind, too.  The hollow one that indicates a partially keyed frame, except the frame is actually empty and has no real keys in it.

I don't believe they cause any harm, but it does add clutter and "concern," so hopefully it gets fixed in a future patch.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
No they do not do anything - empty. That is what I do - keep deleting them, but sometimes I forget and my timeline becoming one big mess... Blink
By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
Maybe they go away if you flatten and re-sample your motion layer track?
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
I have not explored that yet. I tried it once.. and went to sleep, because it was taking way too long to sample. Let's see if I can flatten and then sample to test. It is 3 minutes manually keyed timeline.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
Ok, I flattened and sampled the clip (advice - never do that on a clip that long!). Took some 20 minutes.
Sampling created thousands of keys (that was expected). It would have been fine if.... ATTENTION ... it now takes literally 5min. to create a new key with any bone movement and another 7 minutes to move it...
So all that just to find out that empty hollow torso key is still left behind the key I moved!! Do I have patience or what?  Whistling
By Rampa - 7 Years Ago
Patient indeed!

You do get a clean slate, at least, when you flatten it. You can also sample just specific parts if you want.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
No, I cannot really have that. It was just a test. I need to have all my original keys intact, as I often go back clean, add/change some transitions and so on.
I will just have to deal with split keys until there is an update/fix available from RL.  It's in FBT.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
I got the fix!!!  Right mouse click on a track > Curve Editor > Convert to Curve Data ExclamationExclamationExclamation

So it had something to do with Curve Editor. I installed it but never had a chance to use it. And whatever happened to some of my projects/tracks was the influence of Curve Editor.

After clicking that option, it's getting grayed out and affected track does not leave the hollow key behind anymore. I am yet to play with Curve Editor and figure out what exactly "Convert to Curve Data" option does.

Now wonder just who had beta tested this thing... Alien
By Me3Dtoo - 7 Years Ago
4u2ges (11/22/2017)
I am yet to play with Curve Editor and figure out what exactly "Convert to Curve Data" option does.

Curve Data use's a 3-point value to display animation.
Displays the animation on (X,Y,Z) tracks.

By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
WB swooop, yet once again Wink
By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago
Sigh -- another one to block.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
I got some updates. The original fix (Convert to Curve Data) works well on small timeline clips. But for long clips it is simply unacceptable.
It does create many additional keys. Not that much as flattening and sampling.. but still enough to practically stall iClone when it comes to adding/editing motion keys.

So back to square one.
I could've probably dealt with split torso keys (deleting them as main key is moved). But things got even worse.

If torso bone was moved/rotated, I cannot simply delete the split key - it has to be moved and reunited with the main key (which is also OK).
The worst part is that I cannot apply ANY presets other than linear to the key where torso movement is applied.
Since the key is not solid, I got slipping feet all over the place when I apply a curved preset!!
And this is totally unacceptable! There is no fix for that and my project is doomed.

I strongly encourage RL to take a look at that small attached project and come up with some sort of solution to "solidify" original keys without creating addition sampled keys.

SAMPLE PROJECT


Thank you

Feedback Tracker Entry

By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
I certainly hope it was an honest mistake to report a fixed issue, while it was not, but no one from RL would come forward to explain, confirm or deny - and that is wrong!

From the list of issues fixed in v7.2:
  • Some projects experience the loss of Torso track keys when the dope sheet keys of the Motion Layer Track is moved. Feedback Tracker / Video
By animagic - 7 Years Ago
It must be a mistake because the issue is marked as "Active" in FT, so it has never even be "Assigned", which is the first step for it to be resolved and then released.
By 4u2ges - 7 Years Ago
animagic (12/27/2017)
It must be a mistake because the issue is marked as "Active" in FT, so it has never even be "Assigned", which is the first step for it to be resolved and then released.


Exactly right! And I mentioned it in my first post last week: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost351409.aspx
However, I have another bug report in tracker (about extended bones on a timeline) which have been fixed with the release of 7.0. But it's still carrying an "Assigned" status. So God knows how it works...
I just needed a clarification/confirmation. Otherwise the issue would be considered as fixed and they might never revisit it.