|
By captaincaseous - 17 Years Ago
|
Hi everybody. I'm not a user (yet) but am wondering if I can get your advice. I'm trying to create basic animations to describe concepts for education for kids (think basic math, science, etc.) I've been playing with a Poser 8 demo for a few weeks and it's coming time to either buy or not. It's OK, but a bit challenging for a neophyte like me. I have lots of questions and there isn;t a lot of support. Would it be worth considering iClone? I only know what I've read about it but it seems a little more user friendly. Is that true? Any input/opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Todd
|
|
By Alley - 17 Years Ago
|
|
Hi there, I started with Poser and it is more difficult to use plus the animations take much longer to render. I rarely use it anymore. For still art, etc. you will get some nice looking stuff but if it is animations for children you are looking for, I would go with Iclone. It's pretty user friendly and you can see everything in real time and can get some excellent results. :)
|
|
By Seeker769 - 17 Years Ago
|
|
Hi, Todd One of the best ways to learn about iClone and if it meets your needs is to try it, you can download a free version called iClone4 EX from the Reallusion store. I used EX for about ten minutes before I bought the Pro version, needless to say, I was very impressed:) And now two months later I have yet to be disappointed. Happy Holidays, Chris
|
|
By vidi - 17 Years Ago
|
Poser and iClone are 2 total different programms! You can't these compare together. Would you like make fast films in short times is iClone right for you.
iClone is a filmmaker with lowpoly figurs and pixelshading for realtime rendering looks like computergames, but it very fast and had many feature and effects for exciting filme projects.
But, wish you high quality renderings picture with almost real looks figures(DAZ or Poser Charakter) you needs poser.
Poser is not right tool for filmmaking, it is to slow and needs big hardware, therefor is iClone better.
|
|
By stuckon3d - 17 Years Ago
|
|
captaincaseous (12/12/2009)
Hi everybody. I'm not a user (yet) but am wondering if I can get your advice. I'm trying to create basic animations to describe concepts for education for kids (think basic math, science, etc.) I've been playing with a Poser 8 demo for a few weeks and it's coming time to either buy or not. It's OK, but a bit challenging for a neophyte like me. I have lots of questions and there isn;t a lot of support. Would it be worth considering iClone? I only know what I've read about it but it seems a little more user friendly. Is that true? Any input/opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Todd
Hi Todd,
I know it is going to sound bias since you are in an Iclone forum but Iclone would be a better choice for what you want to do. The fact that everything is realtime and you can play the animation as soon as you make a change, production wise, poser is no match. Everything in Iclone is realtime. For example, you change the color of a light and BOOM! its there, there is no waiting for a render. Iclone is WYSIWYG What you see is what you get. You cant beat that when creating movies or shorts.
Hope this helped,
Stuckon3d
PS: if you want to get a feel for what Iclone can do , take the free intro class on the 27th. You will be amazed on what you can create in a couple of hours. ;)
|
|
By Cricky - 17 Years Ago
|
Todd, you've already tried Poser, so why not immerse a bit more and see what iClone can do? Free and without expiration trial version available here...buy when you are comfortable, not when the clock runs out.
captaincaseous (12/12/2009)
Hi everybody. I'm not a user (yet) but am wondering if I can get your advice. I'm trying to create basic animations to describe concepts for education for kids (think basic math, science, etc.) I've been playing with a Poser 8 demo for a few weeks and it's coming time to either buy or not. It's OK, but a bit challenging for a neophyte like me. I have lots of questions and there isn;t a lot of support. Would it be worth considering iClone? I only know what I've read about it but it seems a little more user friendly. Is that true? Any input/opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Todd
|
|
By Paumanok West - 17 Years Ago
|
Todd, let me speak for the dummy contingent.
I'm not the brightest turnip that fell off the truck.
(Oh man, did I just mix some terrible metaphors. :crazy: )
I didn't spend much time with Poser.
I found it too odd and unintuitive to bother with because I was interested in animation, and Poser doesn't support it very well.
But the first time I tried iClone (version 1, I might add), it just made sense.
It was designed from the start to do human animation.
The user-interface is supremely logical and easy.
It's incredibly powerful while remaining easy.
The price point is RIDICULOUSLY low when compared to the animation big boys, like 3DS Max.
Contrary to some of the gripes around here, the documentation is quite good.
And the content library is growing by leaps and bounds, both at Reallusion and at its content partner websites.
The forum folks are very smart and very kind and very dedicated, so questions are routinely answered in short order.
The company is very well-run and has a great business model and lots of partnerships with other technology companies.
The way I see it, you will either go with iClone or with MovieStorm.
(You could also try Blender, which is very powerful and very free, but I think it will not be as user-friendly for the forseeable future.)
Go ahead, download MovieStorm.
Unlike iClone, the animation package is completely free.
MovieStorm relies entirely on content sales.
It's very good and very high-level, and there was a time I thought it would really compete with iClone.
Not anymore.
Nothing can touch iClone, not for lightyears.
Oh, did I mention I love iClone 4? :D
|
|
By elliespotter - 17 Years Ago
|
|
Hi Todd, My two cents ... For your requirement I think iClone has to be the solution, not only for the reasons outlined above but it has been known for some very young children to use the application themselves quite productively. That may enhance their learning experience too ;) I must confess I happened upon iClone first and have only tried the alternatives after experiencing the iClone offering. Nothing has come close to both meeting my needs and performing adequately on low-end hardware. However, I do believe that other tools are needed to achieve a decent finished product, e.g. Magix MovieMaker Pro for post production editing and building an efficiently compressed final movie file, Audacity for sound effects and background music editing (also TTS manipulation if you use it) and CAMStudio for CBT work. With this lot in my toolbox the only reason my final movies are rubbish is because I'm a rubbish film maker :hehe:
|
|
By Casina__ - 17 Years Ago
|
|
poser or iclone? iclone for the simple, fast and "dirty"...choose iclone, although iclone is not so simple these days, because it's now very expensive, and with the cost of all the addons....more expensive... poser is for the real artists...it takes some time to learn, but with the upgrades nothing changes, meaning that... the program stays the same, in other words you do not have to re-learn the whole programs over again... the render is FAST now...as it use to be very slow...this is not the case anymore... at least the very least....poser doesn't crash everytime you use it... preview mode for the fast render, and the firefly is faster now that ever...just do your vids in little clips instead of the whole movie in one video... IMO, poser motions are so much easier and faster to do, and less time consuming, and you can hone in on exactly what you want to precisely... iclone has the very easiest "face" for your characters...If you want to make a character you can take a photograph and easily put your face on a character...iclone is the very best for this type of situation... and iclone has "GOOD WATER" for the 3d scenes...
|
|
By captaincaseous - 17 Years Ago
|
Thanks so much, everyone. Your comments have been very helpful. I've downloaded the trial and I'll start playing with it.
T.
|
|
By DesertWalker - 17 Years Ago
|
|
" IMO, poser motions are so much easier and faster to do, and less time consuming, and you can hone in on exactly what you want to precisely... " Is this true? If this is ture, it will mean Poser can do animations easier and faster than iClone. The main point of using iClone is for its easy, quick and real time animation. When I accidently ran into iClone (can't remember how now) almost a year ago, it was so excited by the prospect that I could make movies, and all by myself. Once realized this kind of apps existed, I did a quickly search to see if there were any others out there that were better for making movie. I couldn't find any that's better. Poser was one of the apps I looked at. If it is easier and less time consuming to make movies by using Poser, I will use it. But please confirm this. I don't want to buy Poser and then find out otherwise. Thanks.
|
|
By aknzrdude - 17 Years Ago
|
well why not do a search and see how many movies were actually made with poser - i was a poser user - had it since version 1 and have maintained the updates up until poser 7
yes it is pretty powerful and more realistic for a still picture but it is also true that it is more difficult for movie making. As i said, look at how many amateurs/hobbyist made poser movies are there and what quality they are
iclone IMO is leaps and bounds ahead in ease of use
|
|
By Casina__ - 17 Years Ago
|
|
**** IMO, poser motions are so much easier and faster to do, and less time consuming, and you can hone in on exactly what you want to precisely... **** It is true for me! Once you learn how to use it...easy! iclone really does have the very best water! :D
|
|
By animagic - 17 Years Ago
|
|
If I have both Poser (since v4) and iClone and it definitely NOT easier to make movies in Poser. There are things in Poser I like, such as a more elaborate timeline system, but I find iClone more comprehensive and I now use it exclusively. As has been recommended, get trial versions and see what appeals to you.
|
|
By aknzrdude - 17 Years Ago
|
|
let me say that i've seen a lot of experimentation with poser - i.e .a clip here a clip there - testing this feature, thesting that feature but have yet to see a full movie ( a complete story that is, can be 5 minutes long) made with it - unless i am not finding them - show us the movies made with poser
|
|
By animagic - 17 Years Ago
|
|
Well I do have one that I made a while ago... I'll see if I can post it on my website (there are some copyright issues, so it's not YouTubable). It looks kind of bleak after working with iClone, but it does have a story...
|
|
By Dulci - 17 Years Ago
|
|
Try both and see which one you like better. There's really no right or wrong choice - you'll find you just "click" with one or the other more, or if you're really lucky you'll find a way to incorporate both of them.
|
|
By DesertWalker - 17 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks all for sharing your experiences with both Poser and iClone. Although there seem to be two opinions, the fact that you are either former or current Poser users and choose to either exclusively or concurrently use iClone convince me that iClone is the right tool for an individual to make movies. I am lucky to have stumbled across the right tool. Maybe the next iClone version will allow one to use characters from Poser or other modeling apps. Then we will have the best of both worlds.
|
|
By Paumanok West - 17 Years Ago
|
|
Well, RL is cooking up something with DAZ, but none of us have any idea what they're up to.
|
|
By aknzrdude - 17 Years Ago
|
|
gotta love the christmas tree full of nigels
|
|
By Casina__ - 17 Years Ago
|
I haven't had a lot of experience with poser...
until this last year, and in less than 3 months I learned
how to do a lot...
I have poser 7, poser pro, and now poser 8...I also had the best teacher there is...
Carl, the motion master of all the 3d programs!
I was lucky enough to learn from him... I have used iclone products since it was called "it'sMe"... I can tell you this... for the animations that are pre-made made...
(and if you are happy with that) iclone is for you! iclone has a lot of pre-made animations and one could
make movies using them...
The facial recognition in iclone at this time...
is the very best on the market, (taking a photo, and
creating your own character) Although...in poser it can be done as well, it depends on your
art ability... If you want animations that are your own...
and specific to your own designs...and you love art...
poser is for you... you can make your character dance, and do anything you want them to do all in one program, and you can also share them with your friends without any problems, they can sing and dance and do anything you can dream up... not to mention, once you purchase the software...
there are no problems with online activations and such...
as with iclone products...
(much less irritating) IMO, the animations are so much easier and less time consuming
when making my vids with poser...(this is only my opinion)
plus there is a ton of free content on a daily basis that is
high quality... There are plenty of high quality animals, scenes,
and anything anybody could want... clothes can be made in the cloth room, any design you can
imagine...
you can make your own clothes...not just texture somebody
else's design... This is the Reallusion forum and I'm sure they don't appreciate
my opinion whatsoever... so I will not be commenting further on this thread... They are here to sell their product... To make a clear decision...probably be best to try them both...
|
|
By peteradam6 - 16 Years Ago
|
For what it's worth, for future readers trying to decide between the two. Get both. They are each excellent tools, and Poser can be very usefully used with iClone and the popVideo Converter. I'd say they are each about as complicated as each other, and are approx the same price-point when all likely factors are accounted for.
Here are some advantages and disadvantages:
* iClone has the more "normal" interface.
* Poser can effectively do real-time rendering, since its instant preview shaders are really quite good now. If you render using those rather than the "production" level rendering, you can get some fairly fast and dirty movies. Maybe taking 30 minutes to make what iClone could output in one minute.
* Poser has fairly good sketch-style and cartoon cel-shading. iClone doesn't.
* A high-quality frame in Poser with a lot of complexity and good lighting is still going to take 10 minutes to render, at least. In iClone it's on the screen and running at 40 frames per second in real-time. That means Poser is really best for very short animation clips (such as your movie's facial close-ups, or brief sweeping panoramas) and for making still images at print-quality.
* Poser has a vast amount of content available, but that content usually has "dependencies" - you buy one pack and find it needs three other packs to work. Apart from some of the clothing, iClone doesn't often have that problem.
* Poser and DAZ can handle much higher-poly props and characters than iClone.
* Clothing in Poser is generally of a high-quality, and there's a lot of "erotic" stuff. If that's what you want then iClone is rather limited in that area. Poser has some very good cloth physics.
* Poser has more third-party plugins and add-on software.
* Poser has a much bigger user base, and there's generally more documentation, even books and video sets. But iClone's documentation is outstanding when judged against the small size of the community.
* Both have awkward content library management views. But Poser in particular make it really difficult to find content and it scatters the bits you need (textures, props, characters) all over the place in the library. Stuff is installed by publisher name rather than grouped together logically. Some publishers put stuff in really stupid places. Really really annoying, although there are third-party addons for management and Poser Pro 2010 claims to do a better job (it's actually worse - just with keywordsearch). Just getting and keeping a big content library organised is a full-time job in Poser 7 or 8 or Pro 2010. iClone is much easier, but the library interface would still be a little more polished.
* Poser is currently much stronger in terms of the range of animals, kids, monsters. However, they can all be brought into iClone with the new 3DXchange Pro.
* It's still a nightmare to grab onto characters accurately in Poser... so easy to grab the wrong thing/part/character with the cursor. Sure, there are the dials, but this issue is a major issue which hasn't been addressed for years. Poser still has hundreds of severe usability flaws that Smith Micro just doesn't seem to care about.
* Poser is resting on its laurels now. iClone is still lean and hungry and developing at a fast pace. it's an exciting place to be.
|
|
By Illustrator Cathy - 16 Years Ago
|
|
It's pretty simple really. Regardless of any Poser Hoopla you hear - how many films animated with Poser have you actually seen on YouTube or Vimeo? End of story. In the real world where the rubber meets the road, Poser can't animate. Use iClone for animation. Cathy :hehe:
|
|
By Casina__ - 16 Years Ago
|
|
there are many poser vids... here is one example for you: http://www.youtube.com/user/Papasmrfe#p/u/7/zGjbxzayRTg and another http://www.youtube.com/user/Casina777#p/u/2/UHufzCYUkXk
|
|
By Illustrator Cathy - 16 Years Ago
|
|
Thank you for those examples! Cathy :hehe:
|
|
By Casina__ - 16 Years Ago
|
hi
I did a search myself...over at u tube and there doesn't seem to be anything except tutorials...
It's nice to play with all the programs
:)
|
|
By sumthinwong - 16 Years Ago
|
Here's another one made with Poser and other software
http://www.auroratrek.com/episodes.html
|
|
By Illustrator Cathy - 16 Years Ago
|
Don't get me wrong - Poser is a fine program for modeling and texturing human models. But its strength is not animation. The main reason being the massive poly count needed to make those models look life-like. You can of course use programs like ZBrush's plug-in Decimation Master to bring those poly counts down if you are determined to fluidly animate a Poser model.
Personally, I've used Poser since version 1 and it is in part responsible for my introduction to creating in 3D. But when it comes to animation and storytelling I turn to iClone. I am sold on the idea of real-time animation and after years of struggle and frustration, waiting all night for 2 seconds of film to render, I find real-time animation to be an absolute miracle.
Cathy :hehe:
|
|
By AverageJoe - 16 Years Ago
|
|
I too like real time animation, but only in game engines, where I can control the flow of action programmatically, either by triggers or writing programming scripts. But using real time animation in iClone just doesn't feel right to me... I find it fustrating to work with using the whole director mode... So I'd either prefer programmatic control such as found in real game engines, or more traditional animation methodologies. iClone can do traditional animation, but it's just not as intuitive as native 3D application, which of course could be just due to my experience. Plus I strongly dislike the timeline interface... But I don't suppose any of that has any real pertinence to the discussion at hand... Sorry.
|
|
By Casina__ - 16 Years Ago
|
|
hello here is another example of a poser vid... looks realtime to me http://www.youtube.com/user/dezmondel#p/a/u/2/9Qgorapl5rk :)
|
|
By AverageJoe - 16 Years Ago
|
|
No, that certainly did not have a real time look to it, although it was a goo animation... But it was obviously a prerendered scene...
|