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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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Thought it be good to showcase the great lip sync tools Iclone 7 already has as standard . Iclone 7 standard face puppet and lip sync and also the face key options can create some cool animations just takes a little patience and practice . Few of mine below just spent about a 1 hour on each one of them .Given more time and practice its capable of doing some AAA animations . Be good to see others post some lipsyncs and recreate some classic scene in iclone. Also added a Plugin plugin test for CC3 to unreal
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By thedirector1974 - 8 Years Ago
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I am sorry to tell you this, but I don't see the benfit of the faceware tool here. Those facial expressions are very basic and I could animate this by hand in a reasonable amount of time. I don't watn to diss you, I just don't see the 699 (999)$, thats all ...
Direx
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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You got mixed up i guess English is not your first language ? . Read the thread again .This is using the standard tools inside of iclone 7 NOT the 699 plugin for facewhare that has its own forum section :) "Thought it be good to showcase the great lip sync tools Iclone 7 already has". And by all means share some of your lip sync work :)
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By freerange - 8 Years Ago
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When we were using iClone for our work we were using Viseme, Puppeting, and face keying. Once we got access to Faceware we were using it with those as well.
Without Faceware it is hard to get really natural motion that doesn't feel somewhat procedural, biggest benefit is not the lip-sync but the upper face and eyes. But using all the tools you can capture very natural and realistic face expression and accurately timed lip-sync in realtime and combining with viseme you get tongue animation and sometimes better lip-sync for mouth pucker phonemes. The puppeteering and hand key framing was used to exaggerate some of the motion to be more stylized for our characters which were very stylized and also match our animation style which was pretty much a type of stepped animated with some overshoot and settle.
Faceware is a monster time saver when trying to hit a certain quality level and with animator hourly rates it more than pays for itself in one day.
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By TheOldBuffer - 8 Years Ago
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This was my first attempt at using the new facial animation tools in iClone 7.
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By thedirector1974 - 8 Years Ago
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rogyrue (9/28/2017)
You got mixed up i guess English is not your first language ? . Read the thread again .This is using the standard tools inside of iclone 7 NOT the 699 plugin for facewhare that has its own forum section :) "Thought it be good to showcase the great lip sync tools Iclone 7 already has". And by all means share some of your lip sync work :)
No, english is not my first language. And sorry for the mix up. I thought those videos showed some faceware stuff. My fault ...
Direx
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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freerange (9/29/2017)
When we were using iClone for our work we were using Viseme, Puppeting, and face keying. Once we got access to Faceware we were using it with those as well.
Without Faceware it is hard to get really natural motion that doesn't feel somewhat procedural, biggest benefit is not the lip-sync but the upper face and eyes. But using all the tools you can capture very natural and realistic face expression and accurately timed lip-sync in realtime and combining with viseme you get tongue animation and sometimes better lip-sync for mouth pucker phonemes. The puppeteering and hand key framing was used to exaggerate some of the motion to be more stylized for our characters which were very stylized and also match our animation style which was pretty much a type of stepped animated with some overshoot and settle.
Faceware is a monster time saver when trying to hit a certain quality level and with animator hourly rates it more than pays for itself in one day.
I can see how Faceware has a place in the market and how it can save company time and improve animations. But Iclone 7 is brand new software still in development. One of its main selling points for many of us was the updated puppet tools facial expressions and improvements to lipsync options and face key options. I think there potential has not been shown yet in my opinion. So idea of a showcase is to show people whats possible and that new users dont need to spend 699 on a third parTy bit of software to make good lipsync and facial animations.
Personal thoughts are the facial recognition liked to the puppet tool should have been included inside of Iclone 7. Realution should offer a version that is not linked to faceware . I see faceware as a options for Small\large studios not small unpaid indy deleopers. We are locked out behind a paywall to use the ability to link up facial recognition to the face puppet and lip sync tools. Also i had expected to see improvements to the animation and controls for the tongue inside IC7 this again should not be behind a paywall.
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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No problem , look forward to see what you create with the new tools
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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Theoldbuffer
Thats a funny clip well done , classic speech with a funny twist and nice use of lipsynce and puppet tools
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By freerange - 8 Years Ago
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No way they could have included Faceware in the price unless they jacked up the price. Faceware is an independent company and the fact they got such as good deal is amazing in and of itself.
Agreed, definitely should be a showcase of all the new features, RL and it users are pretty good about posting videos so they will come. 7.1 will also help there with people doing traditional keyframe animation and hybrid workflows.
I was going through our work for HBO though and I saw a HUGE increase in face animation quality once we started using face tracking along with the other tools. But we were also doing 3-4 episodes a day so tie crunch limited what we could do manually. Manual work was done in Maya, procedural work was done in iClone.
rogyrue (9/29/2017)
freerange (9/29/2017)
When we were using iClone for our work we were using Viseme, Puppeting, and face keying. Once we got access to Faceware we were using it with those as well.
Without Faceware it is hard to get really natural motion that doesn't feel somewhat procedural, biggest benefit is not the lip-sync but the upper face and eyes. But using all the tools you can capture very natural and realistic face expression and accurately timed lip-sync in realtime and combining with viseme you get tongue animation and sometimes better lip-sync for mouth pucker phonemes. The puppeteering and hand key framing was used to exaggerate some of the motion to be more stylized for our characters which were very stylized and also match our animation style which was pretty much a type of stepped animated with some overshoot and settle.
Faceware is a monster time saver when trying to hit a certain quality level and with animator hourly rates it more than pays for itself in one day. I can see how Faceware has a place in the market and how it can save company time and improve animations. But Iclone 7 is brand new software still in development. One of its main selling points for many of us was the updated puppet tools facial expressions and improvements to lipsync options and face key options. I think there potential has not been shown yet in my opinion. So idea of a showcase is to show people whats possible and that new users dont need to spend 699 on a third parTy bit of software to make good lipsync and facial animations. Personal thoughts are the facial recognition liked to the puppet tool should have been included inside of Iclone 7. Realution should offer a version that is not linked to faceware . I see faceware as a options for Small\large studios not small unpaid indy deleopers. We are locked out behind a paywall to use the ability to link up facial recognition to the face puppet and lip sync tools. Also i had expected to see improvements to the animation and controls for the tongue inside IC7 this again should not be behind a paywall.
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By wreeky - 8 Years Ago
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Yes, the built in face puppet is my favorite tool in iClone. It's what brought me back to give iClone another try. Software should be simple like a pencil and only as good as the artist. Good work!
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By TonyDPrime - 8 Years Ago
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I think a lot boils down to what your taste in seeing facial mocap is. Do you like typewriter staccato type of speech, or so you like more slurry blurry looking lip action. As for accuracy hunting, it will likely be a blend/shape of both (Get it?...eh?...EH?....), but there probably isn't really a right or wrong. I like the eye action and expression features of the Faceware plugin because you can express beyond the viseme I really think it looks more natural in some ways to have less pronounced viseme. Or, you can contra that and go full viseme accuracy, if that's what you like to see. The character used by Rogyrue in the Tony D video has more focused viseme accuracy, and then that big jaw, so that can affect the outcome as well. I'm finding Daz imported have softer response to Oh's, vs CC characters, which seem to have harsher, tighter, Oh's. I'm finding Genesis have softer brow movements vs the CC characters. Also, seems the Genesis imported characters can't have their lip sections edited on the timeline (ie +1 from a default lip of 0) like the CC characters can.
While this may be procedurally discouraging at first to have a bias on one vs the other, it almost opens your mind to viewing the characters more as actual actors/actresses, with different potential range of visual impact.
I see the value in both processes of facial animation now more than ever. A puppet key edited brow looks really nice and can be almost easier vs, say you, trying to move your brow in tandem with what is said naturally, so both are really of value. For me it's not either or, it's going to be, I'm finding, a very nice 1-2 production combo. And this is what iClone has going for it. The entire unison of the whole package. It's a hot facial mocap time now, with the emojis coming to the iPhone...
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By TonyDPrime - 8 Years Ago
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Here is a vid of just Puppetization, no mocap. It's amazing what a mouse and 10-15 minutes can do. 4 years ago while completely wrapped up entirely in Daz and Octane, I wanted this type of Timeline UI control so bad...
Where were you iClone 7?.....WHERE WERE YOU....
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks for the response freerange. Guess if your looking to make money and hit deadlines it has a place. Just think there should have been a license option for none commercial purposes are study etc.
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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Alan Rickman reads Shakespeare sonnet . Took about 40 min to complete used face puppet and lipsync tools . Also a RL free demo level set up for closeups
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By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
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Not terrible, but certainly not anywhere near the level of using FW (but the important thing is whether it's good enough for you -- that's really the bottom line in all of this. If YOU'RE happy then it's all you need).
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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[quote]Kelleytoons (11/5/2017)
Not terrible, but certainly not anywhere near the level of using FW (but the important thing is whether it's good enough for you -- that's really the bottom line in all of this. If YOU'RE happy then it's all you need).
Lol let me know when FW pulls out a single facial expressions that not a slight eyebrow movement . If i want lifeless boring chars then i will throw away $600 on facewhere guess that's what your happy with :P Me i prefer animation with a bit life in a spoken char
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By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
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When you actually make some, let us see.
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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Kelleytoons (11/6/2017)
When you actually make some, let us see.
Hell who cares about the other 40 muscles in the face as long as them lips and eyebrows move i am golden :D
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By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
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Like I said, as soon as you do something worth seeing, let us see it.
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By freerange - 8 Years Ago
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I can say that what will net the best results is setting up the face ware controls for the character, different faces need different levels of expressiveness on various sliders.
Mix with viseme, as least use the tongue but depending on the character you might want some percentage of viseme mixed the face capture that works for that character.
Layer animate on top pf the capture, go in with viseme editor, face puppet and face keys and tweak the performance.
In professional usage face capture is never used raw in the end product, it always goes through cleanup and animation. Without the curve editor getting a solid facial performance in iClone will be super challenging. The viseme system needs a lot of work, or you have to do one of the crazy workarounds that use Crazytalk and a speech to text engine to get something close to accurate. Face puppet on it's own always looks procedural so unless you are adding a lot of keying work on it, it just does not look natural.
No silver bullet, just time savers, and face ware is a big time saver.
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By justaviking - 8 Years Ago
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freerange (11/6/2017)
In professional usage face capture is never used raw in the end product, it always goes through cleanup and animation.
That description is consistent with the "making of" DVD bonus features I watch.
No silver bullet, just time savers, and face ware is a big time saver.
That sounds like a very rational summary.
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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freerange (11/6/2017)
I can say that what will net the best results is setting up the face ware controls for the character, different faces need different levels of expressiveness on various sliders.
Mix with viseme, as least use the tongue but depending on the character you might want some percentage of viseme mixed the face capture that works for that character.
Layer animate on top pf the capture, go in with viseme editor, face puppet and face keys and tweak the performance.
In professional usage face capture is never used raw in the end product, it always goes through cleanup and animation. Without the curve editor getting a solid facial performance in iClone will be super challenging. The viseme system needs a lot of work, or you have to do one of the crazy workarounds that use Crazytalk and a speech to text engine to get something close to accurate. Face puppet on it's own always looks procedural so unless you are adding a lot of keying work on it, it just does not look natural.
No silver bullet, just time savers, and face ware is a big time saver.
Thanks for the information it makes more sense now as to its uses and limitations and its benefits
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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Bit fun with the facepuppet tool and Tokomotions morphs , need to treat my self to a new mic :)
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By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
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deleted
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By Peter Blood - 8 Years Ago
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I could and did do this with IC5. I couldn't with IC6 because they removed the the ability to do it. If it's back in IC7
I will be quite thrilled with it.
:cool: pete
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By kungphu - 8 Years Ago
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You will be thrilled. They brought back the keying system and also have expressions which is what I used to do with Diaz figures. I’d morph an expression and then load them up on the face puppet took. Now you have face keying and also expressions you can key up on characters. Plus there are custom control areas that you can tweak the face as well. It’s nothing like iclone 6. It blows the doors off of it.
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By rogyru - 6 Years Ago
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Test of CC3 to unreal Plugin used standard cc3 char and IC7 showcase Imotion plus animation.
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By 3Aliens - 6 Years Ago
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This is cool! I will use this. Does the cam also recognize Arm and whole Body movements?
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