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By iSeeThis - 9 Years Ago
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I can't find it in provided Motion Folders. And if there is any of it in the store, I'm willing to buy one. Thank you!
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By tripfreak - 9 Years Ago
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I have only tested the trial version of iClone 7, but to me the "Idle_Male" or "_Female" motions (also the "Stand.." -Motion from Zane) look like breathing ?
There are a few others to be found here: LINK
You only have to include a fitting facial animation by opening/closing the mouth accordingly...
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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I suspect what the Original Poster was looking for was actually breathing, not just mouth opening and closing.
With Character Creator using the Ribcage Size and Chest Width you can certainly get something that approximates this. Then if you create a morph with it you could animate it in iClone using the Morph animator. While I've never done this process it doesn't seem difficult and you could do it for almost any character (although you'd need to do it for each and every one -- this isn't something you could apply universally like a motion).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxckXxzqKCE
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By iSeeThis - 9 Years Ago
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Thank you very much, Kelleytoons. I will try everything you suggest.
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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Yeah, I tried using that video I posted as a reference and it only took a few minutes. It looked pretty good and that was just a first attempt.
Note that if you have layers of clothing you will need to animate the morph for all the upper layers (in my test I just had the girl in her bra, so both her chest AND the bra were set up as morphs -- this wasn't anything I had to do special, just adjust the chest size and ribcage in the morph editor and it created the two sliders, but it did mean that you needed to use both the chest and the bra sliders that were generated automatically to get the breathing or she would bust out of her bra :>).
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By animagic - 9 Years Ago
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The Idle Male and Female motions indeed seem to have breathing, which looks morph-based. I'll have to check.
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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You're not talking about the ones where they just move their shoulders, are you?
It doesn't look like breathing to me, but perhaps I'm more critical than some. Moving the shoulders for some people can be involved in breathing, but it's really the chest expansion that sells it, and I don't see anything like it (nor do I see how they could -- every morph would be different for every character and clothing).
But you do know more than I do, Ani, so if you find out anything let me know (now I'm *really* curious).
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By Tarampa Studios - 9 Years Ago
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Breathing is part of the puppet controller. To make your own breathing, idle track you just choose a position - sitting, standing... or create a custom pose and then isolate the joints that you dont want to move, then record the track to your timeline by clicking record then the space bar.
I havent tried it in ic 7 yet but it works brilliantly in iC5.
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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Um, you aren't talking about the Motion Puppet (and obviously not the direction puppet), are you? I don't see anywhere you can do a "breathe" but perhaps you could walk me through the EXACT steps in iClone 7.
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By Tarampa Studios - 9 Years Ago
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Yep. Motion Puppet... But breathing is part of every motion in that puppet controller, its not something thats called breathing... try any idle track and you'll see for yourself. Reallusion has a great tute on puppet controller on their channel, but it's 3am here and Im still half asleep so if you cant find it just give me a few hours, let me know and I'll dig up the link. Its so easy - at least I hope it still is in ic7 -you'll never do a scene again without it... Unless you're doing toon or "Archer Style" obviously. LOL
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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I'm guessing, Ani, that it's not "breathing" but that shoulder movement thing I can see in idle motions. Again, it's okay for casual observers, but to at least my eye (and I don't think of myself as particularly practised in this regard) it's nowhere near an actual breathing look, which would involve the chest cavity expanding. The closest I could say is that it's a "cheat" for long shots, but certainly not anything you could use in a 3/4 or closeup, at least if you are going for something realistic (I realize, too, that we are used to less than photo realism and that such a thing isn't necessary a Good Thing anyway, but with the characters and motions so much better nowadays I just don't think you can get by with a shoulder shrug anymore).
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By 4u2ges - 9 Years Ago
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What we are missing here, is extended rib-cage bones Heidi and Mason used to have.Those could pretty much simulate a breath without the need morph the body and then cloth. Unfortunately that feature was scraped, when CC avatars were introduced.
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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And as a totally ignorant person (when it comes to such things) I'm guessing you can't take a CC Avatar and just add those bones? (I thought you could add bones to a CC figure -- but perhaps doing that will then "break" the CC part of it. Might not be a bad tradeoff if it otherwise works -- i.e. works great but you just can't edit in CC anymore).
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By 4u2ges - 9 Years Ago
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The bones are there if you look at the skeleton in Blender. But I am not really an expert in rigging avatars. And then again it might be too late.
Even if someone would show how to activate those bones (make them extended), the cloth is not weight painted for them.
So everything is a big question mark (for me at least).
Those bones should've been made extended for CC characters from day one.
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By animagic - 9 Years Ago
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There was character breathing request for iClone 6 (FT #360) with possible options for different kinds of breathing.
And, Kelley, I agree, the idle movements in IC7 are not really breathing.
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By Tarampa Studios - 9 Years Ago
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RE: I'm guessing, Ani, that it's not "breathing" but that shoulder movement thing....
Not quite sure who you were talking to, Mike (Kelleytoons), because I notice you've been calling Animagic "Ani" in a few of the forums, but this is the first time I've replied to you here, outside of the AnimatorsForum or Youtube.
So maybe just call me Ani in your 2D forum, and Bleetz here to help avoid confusion..?
But if you did mean me this time, then, LOL, no, I didn't mean the "shoulder shrug" thing... especially since most good action requires the arms to be doing something else while the character is breathing. And since you'd mentioned elsewhere that you are relatively new to 3D in iClone (despite being a pro in 2D), I just assumed you were trying to avoid the newbie mistake of leaving avatars completely motionless whenever they stand or sit "still"...
Obviously, motionless torsos are the bread and butter of 2D, where careful choice of minimalist head and arm movements reign supreme.
So for 3D newbies, it's kind of a terminology thing, I think, because iClone have called the idle motion "breathing" since version 3
https://developer.reallusion.com/aml/Avatar_Breath/index.asp
And obviously, chest "expansion" is only available in certain toonish characters which permit the keyframing of their individual chest segments.
I've got one of those in my contentstore, but it only works for "build your own" style avatars for scenes where you need characters to lose/gain/grow entire limbs during animation.
Otherwise, chest expansion (and stomach retraction, neck variations, skin movement and everything else that goes with proper realistic breathing motions) for G5's and 6's is only available for certain non-standard characters that are boned for it in other software and converted to non-standard in 3DX. But for G7's, it should also be available with the new body morphing feature (minus the skin rippling motion, obviously).
I'm keen to play with this one myself:
See 1:18 on this promo video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=74&v=Fo-UXkKvyio
But, in the meantime, for anybody who can't upgrade to iC7 for any reason, there are still a few ways to get closer to a breathing motion for normal G5's and G6's - more like panting or puffing, really, using subtle sideways and vertical twists of the abdomen. e.g. Horror Motions, Slayer Idle 1 motion gets pretty close to a sinister panting, motion, and you can adjust the stance for less sinister characters. Or else keyframe it manually yourself with combinations of very small, subtle twist and counter-twist of the hips and chest - including both sideways twists as well as north-south bending), so the overall pose looks the same, but has a subtle degree of life metaphorically breathed into it.
More than one way to skin a cat as they, say, depending how much work you are able to put into it.
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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Sorry, Anita <g>, yeah, I was talking with Animagic (I had completely forgotten you were also "Ani").
And, yeah, he was thinking of that shoulder thing and/or G5 characters (which did have the bones to allow the breathing). As I said in my first response to the original poster, doing a morph is now the only way of doing this, and isn't "universal" in that every character (and every clothing setup) will need the morphs. So it's too bad they didn't include those bones going forward (it's almost NEVER a good idea to remove bones from a rig, even if they aren't used).
And I worked for three decades as a professional 3D animator -- I'm only "new" to iClone (mostly because while I've owned it for years I was doing all that 2D work). I'm trying to get up to speed with it for the FW plugin release (as well as the python scripting, as I've spent many years doing scripting work for various animation programs, including Max).
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By Tarampa Studios - 9 Years Ago
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Ahhh, cool. That makes heaps more sense about your previous experience.
Otherwise, I was starting to get jealous at how fast you were picking up on 3D, LOL.
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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When it comes to iClone at times I feel like such a newbee I can't tell you (because many of the things I think I *know* are only true in other 3D programs). Plus I have been away from doing serious 3D work for over a decade and this old man finds learning new stuff makes his head hurt.
But I'm getting there. Slowly.
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By Tarampa Studios - 9 Years Ago
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Did you see the brilliant update by Lamias yesterday?
It's a really good example of breathing motion in iClone 6, using standard characters and the subtle twist and bend motions that I was trying to describe yesterday, without any morphing - hands tied behind her back, so the "shoulder shrug" thing can't be overdone. It's also a good example of how a very good Story rules higher than effects. Here's a quick link to the vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=234&v=JavDeicz7iU
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By animagic - 9 Years Ago
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As one "Ani" to another: that's what you get with shortening names/handles...:P
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By Tarampa Studios - 9 Years Ago
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Haha, yep. Totally...
But since you're well known for working your Magic with iClone, perhaps Ani is the wrong end for yours to be abbreviated,
:D
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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The movements aren't bad, but they aren't breathing, either. And I don't think that's a CC character -- they generally look MUCH more realistic than that. I could be wrong, but it does appear more stylistic, which is why the "breathing" works. I think the OP was asking about a case where the characters chest moves, because they seemed to be very specifically asking where someone might be heavily breathing (I might be misremembering that as well, but that was the impression I got).
For me the stylistic approach is fine -- I worry myself about the old uncanny valley issue -- which is why I liked your stuff so much Anita. But there is no denying we are headed the opposite way in CC and iClone 7, and faking things like actually chest breathing just aren't going to be acceptable (again, if you are going for that amount of realism). The character in that video mostly just moves her upper body up and down and, with the sound FX, it does give *some* amount of realism. For some that will be fine and work, for others it won't be close.
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By TonyDPrime - 9 Years Ago
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If I was going to animate breathing, way up close, I would see if I could animate nostril width, and possibly above nose brow height, maybe?
But in a scene of full body scale I would probably raise the head higher with a puppet movement, and maybe simultaneously close the eyes, and then accentuate it with the sound effect of breathing (like Kelleytoons described).
Now, this is for deep breathing, not general breathing. But I think the audience would see that as a deep breath.
I am assuming it's for a scene where someone passes gas, and this can be one of the most difficult CG animations all around to accomplish. It really stinks.
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By animagic - 9 Years Ago
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Bleetz (9/8/2017)
Haha, yep. Totally...
But since you're well known for working your Magic with iClone, perhaps Ani is the wrong end for yours to be abbreviated,
:D
Well, that's very kind of you to say. Thank you! :)
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By marcelj29 - 9 Years Ago
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https://www.mixamo.com/#/?page=1&type=Motion%2CMotionPack
You can get a breathing animation at this site. I hope this helps.
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By Ascensi - 7 Years Ago
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I took a peek on the Mixamo site, it's not as convincing.
If you are interested in real breathing for your characters I've introduced a concept on the feedback tracker I hope you vote on that should morph the chest area and ik the shoulders simultaneously mimicking to the body what lungs do but also introduced other fantastic possibilities such as real time shock waves through a large character with fat, breasts, butt, flab wiggle.
This should allow everyone to easily add/activate breathing - just give your character animated 3D lungs and veins on softbody physics for characters based on character weight maps! <---Link please vote.
The lungs could have a few animations -rapid breathing, calm, inhale/exhale, dead, random for fear. -could be a standard. I've also suggested the same to a developer of Obi softbody Physics on the Unity asset store to have a pipeline to port this for games as well.
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By Ascensi - 5 Years Ago
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We might all get the realism soon! I was able to create/demonstrate soft body character physics. A simplified animated prop could potentially be used to influence the soft cloth inside the character.. If you like the idea you could vote here and maybe we'll get an easier solution in iClone 8. https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Request-to-allow-Softbody-Physics-on-character-s-skin-influenced-areas-are-to-determined-by-weight-map-painting
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