|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
So I bought a pretty cool steampunk loco from Daz3d and while, in general, I'm not a locomotive sort of guy it looked so cool I had to have it. Getting it into iClone I realize it has the rather common (but somewhat complicated) piston and bar arm thingee that moves the three wheels and drives the piston (for what I assume is where the power comes from -- again, not really a locomotive sort of person). My first thought was I could go into Max with this and set up the linkage and animation (and, indeed, I even found a video from Warlord here, who talks about doing just that and then importing the resultant animation back into iClone) but I kind of hate Max on my laptop (the only place it resides nowadays) because at my old age I can barely make out the interface.
But I got to thinking -- we have all kinds of physics in Max, and I even have the physics toolbox. Surely there must be SOME way to do the same thing in iClone? I can't possibly have been the only person in the world who thought about it, right? Except I seem to have been, or at least no one else has ever written or asked about it. So I'm asking now -- anyone have any experience or thoughts in doing this? Am I wasting my (precious left) time? Because this is definitely one case I do NOT want to reinvent the wheel (pun completely intended).
If it's just impossible in iClone I'll bite the bullet and rig it in Max, but before I give up I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this (because there are a lot of folks without Max out there who could probably benefit from it).
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
|
Yes you can use the physics restraints which come with Iclone. Reallusion has several tutorials ( non directly for a train) There are a couple of restraint basics ( to get you going on Iclone stuff) know you worked with Max physics so should be just getting acquainted with Iclone physics. the one on the hobby horse should get you moving in the right direction on the train. it uses multi restraints to move different types of levers.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
Thanks, Paul -- yeah, after writing that I started looking at the manual (I bought the physics thing like years ago, and never used it) and while I see there are some changes (there don't appear to be the same things the manual talks about, like a cylinder type but there is a capsule type which seems to be similar) I think I can suss this out eventually.
If I come up with anything that works I'll post it so others can use it in the future (it's too bad they didn't provide this as a structure for folks -- while the Segeway engine is interesting it's hardly useful -- who the heck would even need that? But I know a LOT of folks like trains).
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (8/22/2017)
So I bought a pretty cool steampunk loco from Daz3d and while, in general, I'm not a locomotive sort of guy it looked so cool I had to have it. Getting it into iClone I realize it has the rather common (but somewhat complicated) piston and bar arm thingee that moves the three wheels and drives the piston (for what I assume is where the power comes from -- again, not really a locomotive sort of person). My first thought was I could go into Max with this and set up the linkage and animation (and, indeed, I even found a video from Warlord here, who talks about doing just that and then importing the resultant animation back into iClone) but I kind of hate Max on my laptop (the only place it resides nowadays) because at my old age I can barely make out the interface.
But I got to thinking -- we have all kinds of physics in Max, and I even have the physics toolbox. Surely there must be SOME way to do the same thing in iClone? I can't possibly have been the only person in the world who thought about it, right? Except I seem to have been, or at least no one else has ever written or asked about it. So I'm asking now -- anyone have any experience or thoughts in doing this? Am I wasting my (precious left) time? Because this is definitely one case I do NOT want to reinvent the wheel (pun completely intended).
If it's just impossible in iClone I'll bite the bullet and rig it in Max, but before I give up I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this (because there are a lot of folks without Max out there who could probably benefit from it).
Sir,
As soon as I saw your post "Title".... without reading it.... Warlords post came to mind.
rogyrue... leans on you and you snap back.
The Bottom Line:
I have max.... as you... and learned how to use the Physics and Rigging tools.
it's too bad they didn't provide this as a structure for folks -- while the Segeway engine is interesting it's hardly useful -- who the heck would even need that?/
"You say you could do it using 3ds Max, but I seriously doubt it."
Everything in iClone is NOW a piece of cake to understand because I "Learned" 3ds Max tools.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Worldlord is using "Wire-Parameters"..... This QUICKLY snaps the motions together for iClone.
You can't see you max ui on your laptop.... "Turn on... "Old Folks Tools" ...and "Magnify Your Screen"
Your a good programmer, but need practice "Rigging"
Why else would you go through the "Pain" of tedious iClone steps to do what 3ds Max will do in seconds.
I am not trying to upset you, but rogyrue is surprised and "So Am I."
...years of industry experience, yet severely limited rigging knowledge.:w00t:
NOTE:
If you use.....Reaction Manager.... it's 10 times faster and MORE accurate than "Wire-Parameters."
~ You DON'T have to wire to individual tracks.
~ Select an object.... transform it.
~ Select ALL of the other objects.... transform them.
Result: "Move ONE object and the others objects follow. :Wow:
I will help you if you like.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
As usual, Swoop, you miss the point -- so let me reiterate it for you.
I'm NOT going to use Max unless I absolutely have to use it -- you have zero understanding of my physical situation but I will try and be patient and tell you I absolutely cannot use Max anymore. The @#$@%$ interface doesn't work for me no matter HOW I try and magnify it (and if you tried yourself you'd understand). Particularly on my laptop, but even when I use it on an external monitor. But just so you might get an inkling of what it's like to live with limited eyesight -- I have dual 42" monitors and I need them at regular HD (no greater) resolution with Windows at 150% AND using the manifest trick with large fonts just so I can see iClone enough to make it work. So shut the fuck up unless you can walk in my shoes.
Because I have never used the physics engine in iClone I was just hoping someone else had done it before for this problem -- as it stands I will learn it (and I will learn it) but it's just one more thing I don't have time for in my limited life. Again, unless you have aged as I have you have no compassion so stop talking like you actually know something.
In any case, I'm thankful Paul confirmed I won't be wasting that little time I have -- and I will share whatever I can come up with for others (which should be the purpose of this forum, not to complain to folks they don't know what they are talking about or asking about).
And I think, Swoop, this is the last time I'll ever respond to you -- about anything. If there was an ignore button on this forum I'd use it (but, sadly, there isn't, so I'll just pretend you never write anything here again).
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (8/22/2017)
As usual, Swoop, you miss the point -- so let me reiterate it for you.
I'm NOT going to use Max unless I absolutely have to use it -- you have zero understanding of my physical situation but I will try and be patient and tell you I absolutely cannot use Max anymore. The @#$@%$ interface doesn't work for me no matter HOW I try and magnify it (and if you tried yourself you'd understand). Particularly on my laptop, but even when I use it on an external monitor. But just so you might get an inkling of what it's like to live with limited eyesight -- I have dual 42" monitors and I need them at regular HD (no greater) resolution with Windows at 150% AND using the manifest trick with large fonts just so I can see iClone enough to make it work. So shut the fuck up unless you can walk in my shoes.
Because I have never used the physics engine in iClone I was just hoping someone else had done it before for this problem -- as it stands I will learn it (and I will learn it) but it's just one more thing I don't have time for in my limited life. Again, unless you have aged as I have you have no compassion so stop talking like you actually know something.
In any case, I'm thankful Paul confirmed I won't be wasting that little time I have -- and I will share whatever I can come up with for others (which should be the purpose of this forum, not to complain to folks they don't know what they are talking about or asking about).
And I think, Swoop, this is the last time I'll ever respond to you -- about anything. If there was an ignore button on this forum I'd use it (but, sadly, there isn't, so I'll just pretend you never write anything here again).
Sir,
I DO know what it's like. I'm in my 50's and have sight problems, TOO!
Fact:
Anytime anyone mentions instruction on.... scripting or similar.... you "DROP" serious... detailed information in your post.
Many of your "Other" post do NOT contain any detail information of 3D Rigging and tool knowledge.
All Animation... starts with rigging. "Bone Control"
It is clear.... with your years of industry experience... You did NOT learn "Bone Control"... advanced rigging.
"There is far more to rigging than weighting bones to a mesh."
What does NOT add up is.....
You can see the iClone Ui...
Understanding iClone tools is a walk in the park,
IF...
You learned 3ds Max's Tools.
Why???
because... (iClone was BUILT with 3ds Max)
We all start somewhere, but If you wish for me to stop...
I will.
Take Care
|
|
By animagic - 8 Years Ago
|
iClone has many hidden treasures, and it is not unusual not to be fully acquainted with a specific area. There's no shame in that.
Kelley, I look forward to your solution, because I like to learn.
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
|
animagic (8/23/2017)
iClone has many hidden treasures, and it is not unusual not to be fully acquainted with a specific area. There's no shame in that.
Kelley, I look forward to your solution, because I like to learn.
I agree wholeheartedly 100%.
animagic... changing the past... there is an awful lot I can share (step by step) using max tools.
Wish I share the steps with Kellytoons... especially wire-parameters. This would greatly aide in understanding the up coming motion graph editor.
Perhaps, he already knows this and simply looking for a way in iClone.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
Cool, looking forward to what you come up with. The only physics I have done so far is a Blackhawk using it for the rotors and turbines. It worked out well once i figured out how to get Iclone to center the restraint for me.
Kelleytoons (8/22/2017)
Thanks, Paul -- yeah, after writing that I started looking at the manual (I bought the physics thing like years ago, and never used it) and while I see there are some changes (there don't appear to be the same things the manual talks about, like a cylinder type but there is a capsule type which seems to be similar) I think I can suss this out eventually.
If I come up with anything that works I'll post it so others can use it in the future (it's too bad they didn't provide this as a structure for folks -- while the Segeway engine is interesting it's hardly useful -- who the heck would even need that? But I know a LOT of folks like trains).
|
|
By colour - 8 Years Ago
|
FWIW. iClone's Physics Tool Box has all the Motion Templates you need, plus Help Files, If you have it., However, Model's moving parts need to be separate Sub-Props, Edited in 3DXChange. Sub-Props Pivot Points need to be in right place, with Y Axis precisely Edited, before you apply the Templates.
BTW, there's an excellent iClone Market Place User created Model Loco.
Another BTW. Since this an iClone Forum, it would be interesting if sWoooooooooooooooooop & KellyToons could demonstrate their iClone expertise, by posting iClone Clips they've produced................
|
|
By mtakerkart - 8 Years Ago
|
For new user who want to make their own locomotive.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
Damn thats right and the way Daz come in FBX it will have multi root layer so you will have to do some manipulating. I did it with Lightwave for my Blackhawk project broke it up and assigned layers and then re imported into 3Dxchange as a .obj file so only one layer for easy assignment. Basically you will have to get it to be sub- prop-able.
Note: you don't need to purchase the physics tool box I clone has all the needed tool available. and you can use the align function to make sure for your pivots are right
colour (8/23/2017)
FWIW. iClone's Physics Tool Box has all the Motion Templates you need, plus Help Files, If you have it., However, Model's moving parts need to be separate Sub-Props, Edited in 3DXChange. Sub-Props Pivot Points need to be in right place, with Y Axis precisely Edited, before you apply the Templates.
BTW, there's an excellent iClone Market Place User created Model Loco.
Another BTW. Since this an iClone Forum, it would be interesting if sWoooooooooooooooooop & KellyToons could demonstrate their iClone expertise, by posting iClone Clips they've produced................
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
Just to end my involvement in this thread, I had actually gone ahead and found that video Makerart linked here, and that gave me enough info to start rigging. In the course of doing that, though, I found the model I was using was kind of back-asswards (hard to explain except that the only way it really could have worked was if the wheels drove the piston, instead of the other way around). This seemed almost impossible to get functioning, but *part* of that is the extreme tolerances iClone imposes on its physics (you can align things to be sure, but aligning what amounted to about a dozen different parts of various types proved to be too frustrating to me).
Since my time IS limited I just animated it by hand -- which took all of about 10 minutes and looks fine. I can't imagine the physics engine looking any better (which, BTW, is one reason I've always avoided such engines, even in Max where they used to be really popular. If you are a true animator you really can do far better by hand than any simulation anyway). I wasted at least an hour trying to do it the other way and while I did learn some things that might be useful in the future by and large I think I will continue NOT to use physics (except for things impossible to hand animate, like hair and cloth).
(Oh, and anyone can look at my YouTube channel if they want to see my stuff -- the show Fox was going to put on the National airwaves is up there, along with a few iClone things. My iClone shows will be coming as soon as the FW plugin is available, as nearly everything I write is dialog driven).
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
|
colour (8/23/2017)
...Another BTW. Since this an iClone Forum, it would be interesting if sWoooooooooooooooooop & KellyToons could demonstrate their iClone expertise, by posting iClone Clips they've produced................
I don't have any iClone expertise.
But...
As you patiently wait for (10 year old) tools to come to iClone...
~ I imported Markerless Facial Mocap TO iClone (Years ago). iClone (4) :cool:
~ Re-Targeting (Myself) using a Function Curve Editor.
~ Optimize character's mesh and uv's... that are (Game Ready)
~ Quick and Accurately "Blend All Motions."
~ Progressive Moph
~ Blend IK - FK
....All of which iClone can NOT do.
Paid for 3ds Max (twice)
...Nothing to write home about.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (8/23/2017)
(Oh, and anyone can look at my YouTube channel if they want to see my stuff -- the show Fox was going to put on the National airwaves is up there, along with a few iClone things. My iClone shows will be coming as soon as the FW plugin is available,
Very nice work, impressive even, will check out more of your videos as week winds down I subscribe to your channel. looking forward to current work and your new stuff...
as nearly everything I write is dialog driven).
Of this I have no doubt :)
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
paulg625 (8/24/2017)
Kelleytoons (8/23/2017)
(Oh, and anyone can look at my YouTube channel if they want to see my stuff -- the show Fox was going to put on the National airwaves is up there, along with a few iClone things. My iClone shows will be coming as soon as the FW plugin is available,Very nice work, impressive even, will check out more of your videos as week winds down I subscribe to your channel. looking forward to current work and your new stuff... as nearly everything I write is dialog driven). Of this I have no doubt :)
LOL -- you mean I talk a lot? <bg> Yeah, even my wife complains about that.
I really wish I were a more talented animator who could tell their story without so much dialog. Oh well, at least I'm having fun.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (8/24/2017)
LOL -- you mean I talk a lot? <bg> Yeah, even my wife complains about that.
I really wish I were a more talented animator who could tell their story without so much dialog. Oh well, at least I'm having fun.
Actually thinking more about the wittiness of your comments, More a Kevin Smith thing. His stuff is also dialog driven. You have to play to your strengths. Smith was telling a story about how he was hired to do a script for a Batman movie. He was joking how for him, being a dialog guy, a fight scene the fight would take place off camera and then the characters come in and talk about what happened...
And although yes a good story should be able to be told visually dialog is golden when done well and when driven by strong wit. King of the hill: 3 guys stand in the ally talking about guy things and drinking bear. Funny? lasted over 10 years.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
Thanks, Paul.
I love KotH and the Kevin Smith story is really good -- I can definitely relate.
I well remember writing the scripts for our series and then realizing I had to animate them (2D without the great help we have in iClone). Yipes -- animate folks climbing around on the top of a building (one scene I had written). Hmmm, perhaps we just hear him while he's UP there and never see him? (I actually did animate him, but it was pretty awful. Got better as time went on but 2D animation was never my strong point).
|
|
By TheOldBuffer - 8 Years Ago
|
@Kelleytoons
Whats your youtube channel please? I've tried searching Kelleytoons but to no avail.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
https://www.youtube.com/user/MikeDKelley
As a very general rule I don't try and promote that here yet because it's really 2D (based around both our series as well as the product used to animate it, Moho). However, I WILL be using iClone for some serious (or not so serious) work as soon as the FW stuff is released.
|
|
By TheOldBuffer - 8 Years Ago
|
Kelleytoons (8/24/2017)
https://www.youtube.com/user/MikeDKelleyAs a very general rule I don't try and promote that here yet because it's really 2D (based around both our series as well as the product used to animate it, Moho). However, I WILL be using iClone for some serious (or not so serious) work as soon as the FW stuff is released.
I loved the 2d animations. I'll watch them all over the weekend. Do you write your own scripts?
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
Thanks for the kind words.
Yeah, I actually think of myself as a writer first and foremost. I have a long background in directing (my degree is in communications and theater arts) but writing is my strength, such as it is. For a long time I worked in 3D (back when dinosaurs ruled the earth and character animation was just a pipedream). I'm lucky to have lived long enough to see the tools we now have.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (8/24/2017)
Thanks, Paul.
I well remember writing the scripts for our series and then realizing I had to animate them (2D without the great help we have in iClone). Yipes -- animate folks climbing around on the top of a building (one scene I had written). Hmmm, perhaps we just hear him while he's UP there and never see him? (I actually did animate him, but it was pretty awful. Got better as time went on but 2D animation was never my strong point).
This is why when I see someone asking for a new tool saying this would make it easier for me. Then someone criticizes them and talks about, what it means to be an animator. I think yeah but I also have to be a writer, editor, director, cinematographer, sound effect (collector and sound guy), ect... It's not we can't do it, some how, its the time we spend getting it to look just right... looking forward to watching more of your current and future work.
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
paulg625 (8/25/2017)
Kelleytoons (8/24/2017)
Thanks, Paul.
I well remember writing the scripts for our series and then realizing I had to animate them (2D without the great help we have in iClone). Yipes -- animate folks climbing around on the top of a building (one scene I had written). Hmmm, perhaps we just hear him while he's UP there and never see him? (I actually did animate him, but it was pretty awful. Got better as time went on but 2D animation was never my strong point).This is why when I see someone asking for a new tool saying this would make it easier for me. Then someone criticizes them and talks about, what it means to be an animator. I think yeah but I also have to be a writer, editor, director, cinematographer, sound effect (collector and sound guy), ect... It's not we can't do it, some how, its the time we spend getting it to look just right... looking forward to watching more of your current and future work.
Directors and spend years refining their skill. When a Director is "expected" to get under the hood and make it work...
The director is told to "Stand Back.".... and let the "Technical Director" TAKE OVER.
The technical director does NOT use "AutoRig"... therefore, thoroughly understands "Bone Control.".... Greatly simplifying Animation
He/She knows how it's done "From Experience."
Climb or Walk:
~ Pose
~ Block
~ Anticipate
Basic Animation 101:
Use auto this and auto that.... You learn NOTHING.
Result:
You have great difficulty performing basic animation as climbing a wall.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Programmers come to iClone, whom have spent years refining their skills and when expected to get under the hood and make it work....
Learn from the "Technical Director" of How its done.
1. The Modeler must keep the Rigger in mind.
2. The Rigger must keep the Animator in mind.
3. The Animator breaths life into the scenes.
The Programmer.... needs to LEARN all of this... step by step.
Use auto this or that.....
Poor results as noted.
But...
You tweak anything long enough, it becomes acceptable.
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
|
paulg625 (8/25/2017)
...when I see someone asking for a new tool saying this would make it easier for me
When you need to fix something.
Just as you use "Auto-This or Auto-That"... i.e. lip sync, morphs, etc., etc..
ask for an "Auto-FIX" EZ button.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
So your that guy on this forum.....
but0fc0ursee (8/25/2017)
paulg625 (8/25/2017)
...when I see someone asking for a new tool saying this would make it easier for meWhen you need to fix something. Just as you use "Auto-This or Auto-That"... i.e. lip sync, morphs, etc., etc.. ask for an "Auto-FIX" EZ button.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
thanks for stating the obvious stuff " as usual" and on the rest I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
but0fc0ursee (8/25/2017)
Directors and spend years refining their skill. When a Director is "expected" to get under the hood and make it work...
The director is told to "Stand Back.".... and let the "Technical Director" TAKE OVER.
The technical director does NOT use "AutoRig"... therefore, thoroughly understands "Bone Control.".... Greatly simplifying Animation
He/She knows how it's done "From Experience."
Climb a Walk:
~ Pose
~ Block
~ Anticipate
Basic Animation 101:
Use auto this and auto that.... You learn NOTHING.
Result:
You have great difficulty performing basic animation as climbing a wall.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Programmers come to iClone, whom have spent years refining their skills and when expected to get under the hood and make it work....
Learn from the "Technical Director" of How its done.
1. The Modeler must keep the Rigger in mind.
2. The Rigger must keep the Animator in mind.
3. The Animator breaths life into the scenes.
The Programmer.... needs to LEARN all of this... step by step.
Use auto this or that.....
Poor results as noted.
But...
You tweak anything long enough, it becomes acceptable.
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
|
paulg625 (8/25/2017)
thanks for stating the obvious stuff " as usual" and on the rest I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
Wrong about what:? Please explain.
Fact:
You use auto buttons you learn nothing.
When the animation is not pleasing... you have to tweak bone by bone to fix it.
The more you know about "Rigging"... Not simply skinning a mesh to bones...
The easier it is to FIX iClone animation.
Period.
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
Fact:
You don't know anything about me or my skills.
question:
What is my purpose ? What are my goals?
but0fc0ursee (8/26/2017)
paulg625 (8/25/2017)
thanks for stating the obvious stuff " as usual" and on the rest I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.Wrong about what:? Please explain.
Fact: you just blurt out the obvious; without considering what someone is thinking, or their purpose.
the statements are factual but meaningless in the context of the discussion which we were involved in.
If I'm building a house and use power tools instead of using hand tools, doesn't mean I don't know how to use the hand tools .
it means I'm wise enough to regulate my time across all the things I have to do.
What have I asked for which you consider an easy-button? In fact the only tool I asked for is something to give me more access
Don't you preach on ans on about curve editor? that's not bone by bone seems it's an easy button.
Then adding injury to insult, you didn't even read one of the post I wrote and raved about what you thought I needed and the funny thing was what you were raving saying I needed was what I was asking for.
You come into a topic brief over it, your cup already full. Then don't even truly read what someone says before going into a rant like a guy with a sign declaring the end of the world, spew out generic book facts about basic animations.
I have and continue to study basic animation, I initially refused to even use pre-made animations. learning the rules of the 9 old men and the 12 rules of animations.
setting up and blocking out motions by hand, studying motions, poses which express different emotions based on a single frame and proper timing. how to breath life into a character.
And your right about going bone by bone to make corrections. oh how I know this and have spent countless hours doing this while learning to animate.
but again I ask you this, what is my goal? what am I trying to accomplish? verses what you are.
I have studied from guys who have actually worked on Disney movies. how they worked on just a few seconds of footage to get it just right using exaggeration, squash and stretch, anticipation, etc... So next time before you just throw out a few basic rules stop and try to figure out whats going on , empty your cup and actually listen and engage instead of throwing a proverbial tantrum in each and every page I find your quotes on repeating the same things.
and I come back to this final thing and repeatedly ask you: What is my goal and purpose? I know you can't answer this question.
Why is this important? Because you can't actually troubleshoot a problem without asking questions...
You are right the below are facts, problem is they were completely irreverent to the topic at hand, in regards to what I was referencing to...
Fact:
You use auto buttons you learn nothing.
When the animation is not pleasing... you have to tweak bone by bone to fix it.
The more you know about "Rigging"... Not simply skinning a mesh to bones...
The easier it is to FIX iClone animation.
Period.
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
|
paulg625 (8/26/2017)
[b]...but again I ask you this, what is my goal? what am I trying to accomplish? verses what you are...
Kellytoons post concerns locomotion.
~ He's using 3ds Max, but his laptop won't display well for him.
Max tools... Wire-Parameters and Reaction Manager are not viable options.
These tools provide what iClone's physics tool box has... an much more.
______________________________________________________________________________________
What is you point here?
|
|
By paulg625 - 8 Years Ago
|
Wow,
you are totally lost... I actually feel sorry for you. You post part of my post. Then ramble on proving my point.... You ramble on about the topic. You don't even address the part of my post you copied LOL. Just know from what I see of you and looking around at your responses to others here. Yow are destined to become the boy who cried wolf. And even when you have good information to share people are going to tend to ignore it. I know you already feel this way sometimes reading some of your post
but0fc0ursee (8/26/2017)
"IF you would just listen to me."
Sadly you are doing this to yourself with your attitude and approach. and I know I'm wasting my breath. you prove this repeatedly when I asked you a simple question and you failed completly to comprehend the question then began speaking off topic of the primary discussion proving your goal isn't to help it's just to criticize people. Typically people who do this have self esteem issues...
but0fc0ursee (8/26/2017)
paulg625 (8/26/2017)
[b]...but again I ask you this, what is my goal? what am I trying to accomplish? verses what you are...Kellytoons post concerns locomotion. ~ He's using 3ds Max, but his laptop won't display well for him. Max tools... Wire-Parameters and Reaction Manager are not viable options. These tools provide what iClone's physics tool box has... an much more. ______________________________________________________________________________________ What is you point here?
|
|
By but0fc0ursee - 8 Years Ago
|
I came on strong to Kellytoons, but I WILL help him anyway I can.
If his laptop displayed well for him.... we would not be having this conversation.
He knows what he's doing.
I stress the point of the more you know about rigging... the easier it is to animate.
Why...
Rigging teaches you "Bone Control."
Kellytoons is NOT using the EZ button.... Blending mocap.
He's getting under-the-hood and "Animating."
Animation is all about "Bone Control."
What is your problem?
|
|
By TonyDPrime - 8 Years Ago
|
|
I am late to this thread, I know, but could one separate the wheel/motion part of the model from the base and then import as 2 parts, and then set motion to one while moving in tangent with the other, that way you achieve a fake-rig? Or link both to a 3rd dummy prop of some type that would be the primary path mover?
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
|
TonyDPrime (8/26/2017)
I am late to this thread, I know, but could one separate the wheel/motion part of the model from the base and then import as 2 parts, and then set motion to one while moving in tangent with the other, that way you achieve a fake-rig? Or link both to a 3rd dummy prop of some type that would be the primary path mover?
Tony,
In essence that's what I did. This wasn't so much about animating the move part of the loco as it was trying to get the wheel mechanism to work automatically once rigged right. I still think that's doable with iClone physics, but rather than waste more time trying it I just went ahead and animated it by hand. After I did that I linked to the rest of the train and animated its movement (calculated by the circumference of the wheels, so the movement matches the wheel rotation -- that particular part I could do via a script when Python ever arrives. In point of fact I might have done most of this via scripting and may give it another shot when we have that ability).
|
|
By TonyDPrime - 8 Years Ago
|
Kelleytoons (8/26/2017)
TonyDPrime (8/26/2017)
I am late to this thread, I know, but could one separate the wheel/motion part of the model from the base and then import as 2 parts, and then set motion to one while moving in tangent with the other, that way you achieve a fake-rig? Or link both to a 3rd dummy prop of some type that would be the primary path mover?Tony, In essence that's what I did. This wasn't so much about animating the move part of the loco as it was trying to get the wheel mechanism to work automatically once rigged right. I still think that's doable with iClone physics, but rather than waste more time trying it I just went ahead and animated it by hand. After I did that I linked to the rest of the train and animated its movement (calculated by the circumference of the wheels, so the movement matches the wheel rotation -- that particular part I could do via a script when Python ever arrives. In point of fact I might have done most of this via scripting and may give it another shot when we have that ability).
Okay, I see. Ironically, I got the idea from you. In the other thread about an orbiting path, you had mentioned you could orbit an object by linking it to the center object, which itself would be rotating. In that case I also imagined a nucleus having multiple electrons, protons, etc. at different speeds, and so you could have a stable nucleus with no motion, or its own animation, but in its same geography have multiple dummy sphere-movers as the axis points for the other orbiting sub-atomic objects.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
Yeah, and the problem with that particular thought process is that the motion of locomotive wheels isn't all rotational -- there are pistons and levers involved that need more than one pivot point. iClone's physics does handle this rigging quite well, but what doesn't work well is it's *really* finicky about the action after the rigging, as if the actual physics aren't all that good. It would be far better to separate the two, to allow linkage using those physics tools but then just allow hand animation to handle the motions. Unless I just don't understand well (and that's possible) that isn't the way it works.
It's not real complicated to hand animate this (did it in less than 10 minutes) but I had hoped for a more general solution. And as I said, I may well revisit this with a script.
|
|
By rogyru - 8 Years Ago
|
|
Kelleytoons (8/22/2017)
S. So I'm asking now -- anyone have any experience or thoughts in doing this? Am I wasting my (precious left) time? Because this is definitely one case I do NOT want to reinvent the wheel (pun completely intended).
If it's just impossible in iClone I'll bite the bullet and rig it in Max, but before I give up I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this (because there are a lot of folks without Max out there who could probably benefit from it).
Question was answered on page one. Yes its possible and easy to do inside of iclone . But no five pages later the wheel has been reinvented . Along with numerous reminders that Kellytoons is mortal and his time left on the planet short . A browse though the market place shows a number of projects running this simple motion in iclone. Now we are talking about making a scrpit in 3d max for it :D . And no you dont own the forum and yes people can pass critique on what you post
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
Are you a professional idiot, or do you do this just for fun?
"A quick browse through the marketplace reveals..." that someone actually hand animated this procedure. Sigh. I know I should suffer tools in silence, but sometimes...
|
|
By colour - 8 Years Ago
|
rogyrue (8/26/2017)
Kelleytoons (8/22/2017)
S. So I'm asking now -- anyone have any experience or thoughts in doing this? Am I wasting my (precious left) time? Because this is definitely one case I do NOT want to reinvent the wheel (pun completely intended).
If it's just impossible in iClone I'll bite the bullet and rig it in Max, but before I give up I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this (because there are a lot of folks without Max out there who could probably benefit from it).Question was answered on page one. Yes its possible and easy to do inside of iclone . But no five pages later the wheel has been reinvented . Along with numerous reminders that Kellytoons is mortal and his time left on the planet short . A browse though the market place shows a number of projects running this simple motion in iclone. Now we are talking about making a scrpit in 3d max for it :D . And no you dont own the forum and yes people can pass critique on what you post
Maybe if Kelleytoons posted a clip of his Model in Motion, using his method, that would settle the argument.............
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 8 Years Ago
|
Is there an argument? Sorry, I must have missed it. I know folks seem to think I should be using tools outside of iClone, and *somebody* thinks there's no problem at all (so that person ought to post some video) but I don't see any disagreement that physics here just is too wonky to do it easily inside of iClone and doing it manually is about the only way around it.
But if someone disagrees I'd love them to show me otherwise -- again, the only way I can see doing it is manually as long as I'm staying inside of iClone (I'm sure there IS a possible physics rig for it, but it's beyond my skillset to make it).
|