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By Lord Ashes - 9 Years Ago
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I have successfully created a number of clothing items using the Blender Work Flow.
However, there are some items that I am having troubles importing and the common factor seems to be my weight painting because if I weight paint it differently I get different import results.
For example, I have created a cape. Yes, I realize the for a cape I could just make it a soft cloth accessory or prop but the point here is identifying what the minimum requirements are.
Starting with one extreme, if I make the contribution from all of the bones 0 (which is typically what a cape would have assuming your collision detection is good) then CC tries to associated the mesh with the CC EYE and tells me that it is an incompatible mesh. Not sure why it is making any associations but OK.
So, I add a little 100% bone association to the Upper Arms where the cape wraps around the shoulders. Now trying to import the FBX into CC causes CC to get to 21% and then crash (Windows generic crash dialog only).
When I added a tiny amount (around 20%) association to the root, spine1, spine2 and hip bone then CC gives me a cryptic [CC] Skin Error instead.
However, if use the same mesh and Transfer Weights from CC Body, the import works fine (except that the results are not proper for a cape because the bottom of the cape splits like pants).
This tells me that there is no problem with the mesh, it all seems to be related to the weight paint.
So can we get some more specific minimal requirements for CC Cloth weight painting? For example, is there some bone that must have some association?
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Starting with one extreme, if I make the contribution from all of the bones 0 (which is typically what a cape would have assuming your collision detection is good) then CC tries to associated the mesh with the CC EYE and tells me that it is an incompatible mesh. Not sure why it is making any associations but OK.
...(assuming you collision detection is good)
WIP... In time RL will fix this.
Feedback Tracker
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By wires - 9 Years Ago
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but0fc0ursee (7/23/2017)
Starting with one extreme, if I make the contribution from all of the bones 0 (which is typically what a cape would have assuming your collision detection is good) then CC tries to associated the mesh with the CC EYE and tells me that it is an incompatible mesh. Not sure why it is making any associations but OK. ...(assuming you collision detection is good) WIP... In time RL will fix this. Feedback Tracker
What sort of an answer is that, Sw00000p?
Do you even own iClone 7 and Character Creator 2? If you did you would know that there are capes available for the products, and Lord Ashes is asking an honest question that can be answered by an RL staff member, or one of the Content creators here on the Forum.
If you don't have something constructive to add to a topic then be a good boy and leave it alone.
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes,
It's a weight "Assignment" issue that needs refinement from RL.
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By Lord Ashes - 9 Years Ago
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but0fc0ursee (7/23/2017)
Lord Ashes,
It's a weight "Assignment" issue that needs refinement from RL.
Yes, hence my question of: So can we get some more specific minimal requirements for CC Cloth weight painting? For example, is there some bone that must have some association?
The cape what only an example of the latest item that I was working on that ran into the issue. But I came across the same issue with other content too (such as long dresses, labcoats, etc). This is why I am asking not for advice on making capes but on advice on what a content's Weight Paint must include in order to be properly recognized and accepted by CC.
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes (7/24/2017)
[quote][b]...This is why I am asking .... advice on what a content's Weight Paint must include in order to be properly recognized and accepted by CC.
To properly be recognized.... you need to assign to another bone... I get it,
but you hear nothing from RL... indicates what?
Perhaps the feedback tracker.
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes (7/24/2017)
...This is why I am asking .... advice on what a content's Weight Paint must include in order to be properly recognized and accepted by CC.
To properly be recognized.... you need to assign to another bone... I get it,
but you hear nothing from RL... indicates what?
Perhaps the feedback tracker or open a Support ticket would suffice.
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By vidi - 9 Years Ago
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Yes, hence my question of: So can we get some more specific minimal requirements for CC Cloth weight painting? For example, is there some bone that must have some association? The cape what only an example of the latest item that I was working on that ran into the issue. But I came across the same issue with other content too (such as long dresses, labcoats, etc). This is why I am asking not for advice on making capes but on advice on what a content's Weight Paint must include in order to be properly recognized and accepted by CC.
I use Maya and check all Bones after copy weight how it bend . I see where is a Bone skinned , it has white color . If not correct bending in this area , I smooth it and use the Hammer tool The Wire mode is on, to see how do relax the mesh during the painting . I can't believe that RL can your a proper answer in this case , because it depends from Mesh and it is always a manual task by user. |
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By Lord Ashes - 9 Years Ago
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vidi (7/24/2017)I can't believe that RL can your a proper answer in this case , because it depends from Mesh and it is always a manual task by user.
I understand what you are saying but I disagree. Normally weight paint just identifies how the mesh bends based on the various bones of the armature. As such, for example, if I weight paint the mesh completely 0% contribution then this should be a completely valid mesh weight paint, it just means the mesh will be purely static with no contribution from the bones. It would be a pointless weight paint (why make it cloth if it will be rigid) but it should still be a valid weight paint. As far as I understand, no combination of weight paint should be invalid. If you weight paint the mesh wrong then it will not act as you expect but in all cases it should be accepted. This is obviously not the case when it comes to CC. For example, a completely empty (0% contribution for all bones) weight map seems to confuse CC because it does not know what the weight map is for (i.e. CC tries to apply it to the CC Eyes and gets a non-matching mesh). This leads me to believe that there are some minimal set of weight paint rules that CC expects in order to be able to process a mesh with weight paint.
From my experience...
Case 1: A totally empty weight paint (0% contribution from all bones) seems to generate a non-matching mesh error because it tries to apply the mesh to CC Eyes. Note that there is nothing wrong with the actual mesh because, if weight painted differently, the mesh works fine.
Case 2: A 100% contribution from the Upper Arms crashed my CC at about 21% import.
Case 3: A 100% contribution from the Upper Arms and very light (20%) contribution from Root, Spine 01, Spine 02 and Hips gives me a [CC] Skin Error.
Case 4: Transfer weights from CC Body (and possibly some weight paint editing to that) results in an proper import.
So the question is: What is it that CC expects to get Case 4 and not Case1, Case 2 or Case 3?
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Starting with one extreme, if I make the contribution from all of the bones 0 (which is typically what a cape would have assuming your collision detection is good) then CC tries to associated the mesh with the CC EYE and tells me that it is an incompatible mesh. Not sure why it is making any associations but OK.
Correct my understanding here please....
Skin weight values MUST add up to (1).
When a mesh is skinned using (1) bone... by default (100%) weight value is given to that bone.
"If you only have (1) bone to work with." You can NOT give that bone a lower value!
If the "Same" mesh was weighted to (2) bones....
You can give (1) bone a zero value...
BUT...
The program will automatically assign the other bone a (100%) weight value.
Skin weight values MUST = (1)... "Period!"
________________________________________________________________________________________
Lowering the value is asking for trouble.... the program has to guess.
I must not understand your question.:(
EDIT:
Lord Ashes how many (skin) bones does your cape have?
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By Lord Ashes - 9 Years Ago
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but0fc0ursee (7/25/2017): Skin weight values MUST add up to (1).
Under the hood probably yes, but most software when weight painting don't do that. You paint the mesh with values ranging from 0 to 1 (or 0 to 100%). Any part of the mesh that is painted 100% (with respect to a particular bone) moves 100% with the bone. For example, the sleeves of a jacket would be 100% contribution from the arms. A contribution of 0% means that the mesh does not move at all with respect to the particular bone. Anything in between means that the the bone affects the mesh but not completely. For example, the cloth where sleeves attach to the torso would likely be something in between. As the arms are moved the fabric around the joint stretches but not as much as the sleeves.
The software then takes this and figures out how the weight paint of each particular part of the mesh will work with respect to each other.
[b]but0fc0ursee (7/25/2017): "If you only have (1) bone to work with." You can NOT give that bone a lower value!
Completely not true. 100% just means that the mesh follows the bone. A lower value means that he mesh follows the bone to a lesser degree. The weight paint could be as little as 0. While this would be a legal weight paint it would be a pointless one because it would mean that the object is completely rigid with no bone contributions...which defeats the purpose of making it a boned object.
EDIT:
Lord Ashes how many (skin) bones does your cape have?
The cape is attached to a regular CC armature (as per the CC Cloth Blender work flow).
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes (7/26/2017)
[b]but0fc0ursee (7/25/2017): "If you only have (1) bone to work with." You can NOT give that bone a lower value! Completely not true. 100% just means that the mesh follows the bone. A lower value means that he mesh follows the bone to a lesser degree. The weight paint could be as little as 0. While this would be a legal weight paint it would be a pointless one because it would mean that the object is completely rigid with no bone contributions...which defeats the purpose of making it a boned object.
Lord Ashes,
When you get a chance, peruse this topic from "Blender." One Bone - Weighting is 100%
This person has (1) bone skinned to a cylinder and is trying to give it "Less then 100%" weight value.
Blender doesn't allow this person to do it.
WHY? :Whistling:
"ONE ANSWER!"
As noted... "A vertex is always influence 100%"
...weight only controls which bone does the influencing.
"If you only have (1) bone to work with. You can NOT give that bone a lower value!"
then CC tries to associated the mesh with the CC EYE and tells me that it is an incompatible mesh.
It has to go somewhere to meet the 100% requirement.
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By Lord Ashes - 9 Years Ago
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I have done this in Blender many times and thus I know that you do not need to add to 100%. If the total had to be 100% then how would you create mesh parts that don't bend with the bone? You do that by weight painting them less than 100% or, in the case of no bending with the bone, 0%.
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes (7/27/2017)
I have done this in Blender many times and thus I know that you do not need to add to 100%. If the total had to be 100% then how would you create mesh parts that don't bend with the bone? You do that by weight painting them less than 100% or, in the case of no bending with the bone, 0%.
Lord Ashes,
I have no doubt... you've done this in Blender.
"Weighting Bone-Based Animation and "Weighting for physics" (follow different protocols.)
Physics weighting allow you to split the weight. (When you only have one bone).
Bone-Base Animation.....Skinning to (1 Bone) does not.
For a Cape: (Turn On Physics)
1. Create vertex groups.
2. "Pin" one group 100%... to say the (chest bone)
3. Softly adjust the weighting of other vertex groups
3. Turn on collision.
Simulate.
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By Lord Ashes - 9 Years Ago
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but0fc0ursee (7/27/2017)For a Cape: (Turn On Physics)
1. Create vertex groups.
2. "Pin" one group 100%... to say the (chest bone)
3. Softly adjust the weighting of other vertex groups
3. Turn on collision.
Simulate.
You didn't read the OP carefully. This process makes the cape as a Prop (or Accessory). As I said in my post, I know I can do this. However, would like to implement it as CC Cloth because this isn't about a cape. Cape was an example object that I was working on when I came across this question. I want to know what are the minimum requirements for CC Cloth. As I have said, different weight paints produce issues when being imported into CC using the Cloth import and so I want to know what the minimum set of requirements are to succeed during the import step.
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By Lord Ashes - 9 Years Ago
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BTW, here are some shots of test object made in Blender. The object has 5 bones of which 3 have no weight paint contributions on the mesh (they are just positioning bones) and 2 bones have contribution on the mesh. The two bones that do have contribution are painted with a rough gradient from 0% to 100%. This means that one end of the mesh has a total of 200% contribution. The middle has about 100% and the opposite end has 0%. As such this object both under contributes (<100%) and over (>100%).
When this object is exported, imported via 3DXchange and then brought into iClone as a prop, it works perfectly fine. Obviously in this case the two bones are directly opposing each other and thus the example is not a practical one but it does demonstrate that the weight paint is valid and 3D software will resolve it. I agreed that over contributing is something that would be rarely done because it can be hard to anticipate how the software will resolve the "conflicting" contributions. However, under contributing is a absolutely normal process used in a number of cases (such a parts of a mesh which don't move with respect to bones, etc).
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes (7/28/2017)
...different weight paints produce issues when being imported into CC using the Cloth import and so I want to know what the minimum set of requirements are to succeed during the import step.
Why hasn't Reallusion answered this for you?
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By but0fc0ursee - 9 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes (7/28/2017)
...two bones are directly opposing each other and thus the example is not a practical
...I agreed that over contributing is something that would be rarely done because it can be hard to anticipate how the software will resolve the "conflicting" contributions.
Who would ever use an impractical method to skin?
New users... (NEVER) do this.
He did and CC sent the skin weighting to the "Eye Bone."
This is asking for trouble.
However, under contributing is a absolutely normal process used in a number of cases (such a parts of a mesh which don't move with respect to bones, etc).
Are you saying you can "under contribute" weighting using ONLY (1) bone???
Show that same illustration using only (1) bone.
Attempt to under contribute the weighting.
No physics weighting...
Regular Weight Paint (1) bone.
Show how you defy 3D programming and make it work.
Show the new users "Just how normal weighting ONE bone (less than 100% is)."
Using normal weight painting.... NOT weighting for physics!
Please.
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