Problem with 'ah' viseme in iclone 7


https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic331353.aspx
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By Peter (RL) - 2 Years Ago
I'm also not seeing this issue but do try what Animagic suggested. If you still have problems please send us a download link to your project using the link below. We will then check it out to see what the problem is. Thanks.

http://www.reallusion.com/CustomerSupport/UserEx/QForm.aspx
By gogstudios - 2 Years Ago
Hi Animagic. There is very noticeable mouth stutter. Go frame by frame and you'll notice. This mouth stutter looks weird when seen anywhere even though it'll be for a few 2-3 frames only. So your video proves that it's not an issue with just my computer.
By animagic - 2 Years Ago
I'm looking at your screen captures and it seems that the expressiveness settings are very low; they should be between 50 and 100% for normal speech.. That will have an effect on how much the viseme affects the mouth shape.

I've just done a test in IC7 and it works for me.



It also worked in IC6, and there is no entry in FT that reports it as defective in IC6. If bugs are not reported, RL will not be able to investigate.
By Peter (RL) - 2 Years Ago
gogstudios (6/28/2017)
Hi Peter. When can we expect the fix to this? I don't want this issue to end up in reallusion's dumpster.


Well that's not easy to say as the issue still has to be checked by the development team. As soon as I have any further information I will let you know immediately.
By animagic - 2 Years Ago
@gogstudios: I played your project, and the ah's  rendered according to what the visemes indicate, as can be seen in the video:



As this doesn't seem to be a universal issue, your best recourse is support at this point.

What is your system specification?
By gogstudios - 2 Years Ago
Hi Peter. When can we expect the fix to this? I don't want this issue to end up in reallusion's dumpster.
By gogstudios - 2 Years Ago
I could replicate it. I have shared the project link below. The problem occurs when 2 consecutive 'ah's of increasing intensity are present. Please fix this ASAP. This can be replicated in iclone 6 as well.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0HZ8z7uYVgZNk5tLUY0blFYR3M/view?usp=sharing

EDIT: I have created a ticket for this.
By charlenemedwards - 2 Years Ago
Addendum to post.  Just to prove this is true, I created a dummy script --silent--with no sound--and placed it right before my real script and also copied it to follow the real script. Voila. The mouth now remains in tact with its proper shape until the script begins.  But who wants to add dummies all over the place? Again, please help---not being arrogant, just need help
By animagic - 2 Years Ago
gogstudios (6/27/2017)
Hi Animagic. There is very noticeable mouth stutter. Go frame by frame and you'll notice. This mouth stutter looks weird when seen anywhere even though it'll be for a few 2-3 frames only. So your video proves that it's not an issue with just my computer.

OK, I see what you mean now. It is eliminated when turning on Smooth for the lips.
By Peter (RL) - 2 Years Ago
gogstudios (6/27/2017)
Hi Peter. You can see the screenshots in my first post and they produce the same result when played. Hope you guys can fix this soon. Also, I noticed one more bug specific to iClone 7. When the last viseme is anything other than none, it is not considered when playing. To replicate this:
1. Create a script.
2. Delete all visemes.
3. Now place 2 - 3 visemes of any shape other than none. These visemes can be anywhere along the length of the audio.
4. Notice how the last shape isn't played at all.


Thanks for supplying further information and the steps to reproduce these issues. I will forward this to our development team to investigate. When I know more I will update again to let you know.
By gogstudios - 2 Years Ago
Oh I noticed that but when I change a viseme I have to apply smoothing again. I can use this a temporary solution.
By charlenemedwards - 2 Years Ago
This REALLY IS a disturbing problem. Something iIS wrong. Once you place a voice on the track, the mouth takes on the shape for the first lip key in  the voice clip. The mouth is crazy after the voice finishes. The means Viseme is preparing the mouth early (opening the mouth in many cases depending on the lip key) and making void the face keys I have set because viseme is doing an override. I agree--come reallusion. I purchased ic7 in april prebuy--been waiting patiently without complaint--now I can't animate. If you haven't solved this with a patch by now, please help me with this reallusion.  Thanks
By Peter (RL) - 2 Years Ago
gogstudios (6/27/2017)
Hi Animagic. There is very noticeable mouth stutter. Go frame by frame and you'll notice. This mouth stutter looks weird when seen anywhere even though it'll be for a few 2-3 frames only. So your video proves that it's not an issue with just my computer.


Can you clarify if you get the same results as Animagic showed in his video or do you get more extreme results.

The other user reporting this issue indicated that the mouth took the "ah" shape early and the mouth went crazy after the voice clip. Neither of these issues appear in your project or can be replicated but you indicated you can reproduce it.
By gogstudios - 2 Years Ago
@Animagic I have voted on that issue. You're right. That auto generation is 99% useless even with studio recorded clips. Reallusion is just being lazy with this.
By justaviking - 2 Years Ago
In iClone 6, I usually found the "Ah" viseme to be disproportionately strong relative to the others, and routinely lowered it's strength from 100 to about 60.  Strange that you are reporting the opposite problem here in iC7.

Since a both a moderator and highly respected forum member were unable to duplicate your issue, your best recourse is to follow Peter (RL)'s request of finding a way to get the project to him so he can take a look at it.  We would all love to see you get this resolved.

Good luck.
By animagic - 2 Years Ago
There is a long-running request to improve lip-synching, for which there is currently an FT entry (applying to IC6): #457. It never received that many votes, surprisingly. 

I will probably write one up for IC7. It's not so much a matter of fixing the current system (which dates from IC2 and has received some tweaks), but overhauling it, as has been done with other areas. With facial animation around the corner there maybe something in stock, I wouldn't know. I'm used to editing the visemes, as the initial output is not that great.
By Peter (RL) - 2 Years Ago
charlenemedwards (6/26/2017)
This REALLY IS a disturbing problem. Something iIS wrong. Once you place a voice on the track, the mouth takes on the shape for the first lip key in  the voice clip. The mouth is crazy after the voice finishes. The means Viseme is preparing the mouth early (opening the mouth in many cases depending on the lip key) and making void the face keys I have set because viseme is doing an override. I agree--come reallusion. I purchased ic7 in april prebuy--been waiting patiently without complaint--now I can't animate. If you haven't solved this with a patch by now, please help me with this reallusion.  Thanks


I have run a few tests and I'm not seeing the mouth take the shape of the first key early or the "crazy" mouth after the voice clip finishes. As I mentioned in my previous reply to the OP, please can send a download link to your project using the Support Form below. We will then check it out to see what the problem is. Thanks.

http://www.reallusion.com/CustomerSupport/UserEx/QForm.aspx
By gogstudios - 2 Years Ago
Hi. I am facing a weird issue where my character(CC 2.0) opens his mouth more before and after the 'ah' viseme frame. Every other viseme works perfectly. I exported the character to 3dx7 and inspected the expression editor where the viseme section displays open correctly. I do not have any other face key influence in the iclone 7 timeline. Can you please resolve this? This bug existed in iclone 6 as well for more than a year. Come on reallusion, you can't have such low level bugs in your software in it's 7th version.
154th frame:

155th frame:

156th frame

By gogstudios - 2 Years Ago
Hi Peter. You can see the screenshots in my first post and they produce the same result when played. Hope you guys can fix this soon. Also, I noticed one more bug specific to iClone 7. When the last viseme is anything other than none, it is not considered when playing. To replicate this:
1. Create a script.
2. Delete all visemes.
3. Now place 2 - 3 visemes of any shape other than none. These visemes can be anywhere along the length of the audio.
4. Notice how the last shape isn't played at all.