Follow path and follow terrain problem


https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic327131.aspx
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By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
It's hard for me to imagine what it's going to be like since we have no idea how they will implement Python or what they will expose, so I can only interpolate from other experiences.  But in Max, for example, I scripted very complicated routines like characters walking on uneven surfaces.  All I needed was a starting point and an ending point and a time/speed, and the script calculated the rest.  That's what I assume I could do here but I'm not the coder I used to be, either.

But if it's possible (and if I can't do it someone else can) it should be easy to put a starting position, move the object, and then run the script to calculate the correct alignment.  If you want more then one point you could run the script for each point (which is to say, move the object to the place you want on the timeline, run the script, rinse and repeat.  Or perhaps just move to set each x/y key and the script will correctly adjust the z position).

It's hardly rocket science.
By Peter (RL) - 3 Years Ago
Just to let everyone know, we are currently looking into this follow terrain issue. It hasn't been ignored. Wink
By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
Yes, I tried, but it does not work with path tracking.
Besides, this function also poses a problem for me. It works perfectly when the animation is on "stop". I move the object that remains stuck to the ground and that tilts perfectly in the right direction of the slope. But, I can not make it work when I am in "prop puppet" mode ...

But I especially need to get to work the principle of "Follow path" + "follow ground".

A few months ago, I had posted a message about a project I had to publish my cartoon cars on Iclone. Since I had no answer, I had forgotten this message. I just fell back on it and saw that it had been read 3500 times and that there were about thirty likes. ( Cartoons-cars-by-Pixtim )

So I'm working on it and I wanted to include an auto-animation principle in it ....
That's why I need to know if this function really works or if it's considered non-functional ...
Maybe it's my installation, my preferences, my way of doing ... or software ...
If it is the software I can not integrate this in elements that I want to sell ... and if it is me I must anticipate the problems that could exist for the users ...

I have not found any posts in the forum
By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
Sorry if this doesn't help you, but in following this conversation this does sound like something that could be fixed with an API script (and most likely a simple one at that).

I'll be SO happy when we have this possibility.
By 4u2ges - 4 Years Ago
Ahhh, so just like that. Here's your Pythone interface, here's your API reference, here's your Editor. Just fix it yourself and leave us alone Whistling
Don't get me wrong. I don't mind digging into scripting for something, which is not available in UI. But to fix bugs...
However, if you are referring to scripting keys on a timeline, I do not think it's going to work either in this case.
Even when I figured a precise movement intervals for a smooth terrain follow, I could not enter those values manually (which would have been a 5 minutes job). I still had to drag a Gismo trying to stop at certain values... pain.
By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
I see where the problem is... The version Pre Release! It is not public I suppose.

By mtakerkart - 4 Years Ago
did you try the "follow terrain" in the edit menu ?

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/346c6131-ba37-4b2e-8c44-0f82.jpg
By Rampa - 4 Years Ago
You could also use as dummy between the path and object you wish to key.

I think there has been no change in path-code since version 4, or earlier.
By mtakerkart - 4 Years Ago
For the pitch you have to deal with the edit path. Each anchor have to be edited to have the better position of your prop.
I never get a perfect path the first time I create it Wink


By Pixtim - 3 Years Ago
Oops, sorry I did not see that the subject had been revived.

I had started a feeback tracker also (jun 2017...), it was assigned and it was expected that this problem is fixed with version 7 ...
But this has not been done Sad
By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
Yes, if Reallusion does not fix this, we may be able to add a bit of tape with a script .. I hope ...
And I will be even happier if somebody has the idea to release a nodal editor !!!
By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
Well, that's not the way scripting works -- there's no "evil magic" that overrides what you do in a script.  If you can set an object to a certain z value, then you can do that.  No ifs ands or buts about it.  It's more likely a coding issue in a routine that tries to do something like that in the iClone code, but I've never seen scripting bugs on basic functions like that (but, again, no experience with iClone, just LONG experience -- many decades -- with scripting in other 3D software).

It's one of the main reasons I want Python, as I used scripting to work around a LOT of bugs in that other software (as well as provide functionality that the devs did not).  It's the difference between being given a book and a blank piece of paper you can write anything you want.
By Peter (RL) - 3 Years Ago
Just to give you a further update on this issue, we are looking to fix the problem in a future update, hopefully 7.21 or 7.3.

Apologies for the inconvenience caused by this issue.
By mtakerkart - 4 Years Ago
The way I found to resolve the problem is to desabled the "Project to terrain" feature on the path modify window.
Curiously the "follow terrain" feature of the object is gray out but effective. My object has a coherente behavior.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/5161ac9f-6c24-4121-a8ce-ce44.jpg
By 4u2ges - 4 Years Ago
More points, is what I am trying to avoid by all means possible.
My original point was NOT to use path at all. Follow terrain works perfectly (at least in my case with lightly curved bridge), as I have shown in the first part of the video.. but ONLY when you drag the prop manually.
As soon as I set transform keyframes for the prop and start animation, a global WORLD terrain is taking over and the prop follows it. This should not be happening.
By Pixtim - 3 Years Ago
oupssss Smile

really strange...

Try to make a research with "Follow path". For me, it come in first...
By 4u2ges - 4 Years Ago

2 points Projected Path also work perfectly  (I mean it was developed there for a reason, right?), as I see the prop stats the rotation along with the respective curve of the terrain.
Only problem is, that it start the rotation by the perpendicular axis. It is simply tilting in a wrong direction. And that is where the programming bug is.

I am going to enter both bugs (with Follow Terrain and Projected Path into FT and see where it takes us).

Meantime I figured how to animate using Follow Terrain - by manually creating transform keys along the terrain. It is also cumbersome, But I think it is easier than creating multiple path points along the 100 meter curved bridge (the one I have in a real project).


Here is Feedback Tracker Entry
By Pixtim - 3 Years Ago
more and more strange!
actually ... if I am not connected, my message does not exist!


and yet...:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/bd8719e8-f126-46f1-87f3-1d65.jpg
By mtakerkart - 4 Years Ago
In your pictures I saw you follow the z axis. Did you try following the other axis? 

Here is may be a tutorial that can helps you:


By 4u2ges - 4 Years Ago
Sure, but we are just speculating here Smile God knows if that bug would not take over and override scripted values in real-time. And yes, Z is a problem. It's just dragging damn prop down to 0
By Pixtim - 3 Years Ago
Ahh! it's really great news!!! thank you Peter!

By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
I made a small video to show what I did .. or what I did not do Smile
If I change the tracking axis, if I edit the pivot and return it, or if I make 180 ° to the object ... it does not change anything


By 4u2ges - 4 Years Ago
Hope we'll live to see that, then.
By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
Peter (RL) (2/6/2018)
Just to give you a further update on this issue, we are looking to fix the problem in a future update, hopefully 7.21 or 7.3.

Apologies for the inconvenience caused by this issue.



Most excellent, Peter!
By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
Thank you very much for your tests! So if you have the same worries about your installation, it is a software problem .. I will make a bug report, we will see ...

I tried your solution, it works for the front and back of your object but not for pitching (I do not know if I have the right word in English, sorry ..). As your object is cylindrical, you can not see it ... but if it is a cube or a car ... it does not go completely unfortunately.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/dfacbded-d879-4d9c-8cec-e0b2.jpg
By 4u2ges - 4 Years Ago
Rampa (12/25/2017)
You could also use as dummy between the path and object you wish to key.

I am actually keying "pathless" Follow Terrain. I found it whole lot easier to manage.

Rampa (12/25/2017)

I think there has been no change in path-code since version 4, or earlier.


Then it is definitely a time for revisiting the routine.
By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
Yes ... but when I see how the function is effective in the menu Edit -> terrain snap -> follow terrain, I think it is a sad that there is this error of orientation (because I think The function works, but the result is merely inverted curiously).
If it worked, I could deliver my cartoon vehicles with a prefabricated dynamic system. I already have my system to make rolling and turning the wheels automatically .... It miss only that ...
Thanks again for your tests, we will see if my bug report brings a correction ...
By 4u2ges - 4 Years Ago
I run into this problem now. Gosh this is so ridicules! Everything works with Following Terrain when you drag your object manually. As soon as animation kicks in - nothing works.
But I think I might know why it is not following a given terrain in animation. It actually does, but it is following an invisible - "Grid" terrain.
So there is a conflict. There should be a choice as to what terrain to follow, or the terrain should automatically be selected by the proximity.

With following a Path (projected) it does not work properly either (as Pixim already has shown). And looks like there is no entry in FT for this one.
I have a long bridge and it is a pain to setup a manual projection for the path over it.







P.S. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

By Pixtim - 3 Years Ago
it's strange, I was certain to have made a post in this thread to indicate when I did ... but no ... I'm starting to be crap! Aie aie aie
anyway, I put the right link in my previous message BigGrin ! be careful, I'm not the only one to lose my neuron! :D
By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
The problem would remain the same.
If I want to get the same result that the function offers if it works, it must have two parallel splines with two dummy that are advancing at the same time. And I would have to have a double target to properly steer the vehicle. To have an automatic and perfect result, I would have to do that on both axles. But we can not have double targets with Iclone.

This is where I am with the setup of cars, but with the problem of "follow terrain", it only works if the ground is flat ...
Everything is automatic and the wheels are in physics



By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
I'm not *quite* awake this Christmas morning (celebrating late last night) but this sounds like something that Python could manage very well (I really hope we see that this year -- it's the only thing that I think is really missing from iClone now).
By Pixtim - 3 Years Ago
and I had exchanged emails with them, I had provided the scene and video examples ...
It had to be set in version 7 or 7.1 .. I do not know anymore .. but in any case it was forgotten ...
By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
Thank you very much for answering me mtakerkart.
I tried all the axes. But I'm not sure I explained my problem well.

The orientation of the object works very well. His "head" is well trajectory and adapts to the direction.
What troubles me is the tracking of the terrain. When the slope of the ground leans to the right, the object goes to the opposite and leans to the left .. while it should of course follow the ground.
Here is a small video to better explain.
When the object arrives on the slope, it is clear that it is leaning on the wrong side ...

By Rampa - 4 Years Ago
I would like to see some love given to paths. Splines could be used for all sorts of things.

The "project to terrain" looks to create a bunch of linear segments, instead of curves. The "precision" defines how many. The snapping to exactly vertical has always struck me as bug.

I think it used to interact with the terrain snapping/following in some way. It may be that originally it did that to keep avatars from tilting with the terrain when using a move command. Although the personas I have made with move commands result in the character tilting when projection is enabled. There are snap settings in the Persona that I may have set differently then the originals. Can't recall.
By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
Pixtim (2/2/2018)
oupssss Smile

really strange...

Try to make a research with "Follow path". For me, it come in first...



It is strange! I still do not see it. "Follow path" search shows my entry first Smile... but nothing with your name on it. I am puzzled.
Try to log out of FT tracker and do the same search. Then we will be on the same page.


By Pixtim - 4 Years Ago
Hello,
I have a curious result when I use the function "follow path" and "follow terrain".
The orientation of the object is systematically reversed to what it should be. I tried with Iclone 6.5 and pre-release 7, the result is the same ...
I also tried on two different machine ...
I tried changing the orientation of the axes but the result remains the same.

I really can not see where this contrary result can come from. Is this a known bug or is I doing something wrong?

It would be great if someone could answer me, or just tell me if it works on your setup, I really need this feature ..Thank you in advance!
Ogier

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/26faa106-eafb-4e46-ac97-79d1.jpg
By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
Pixtim (2/1/2018)
Oops, sorry I did not see that the subject had been revived.

I had started a feeback tracker also (jun 2017...), it was assigned and it was expected that this problem is fixed with version 7 ...
But this has not been done Sad


I did not know, you had opened a ticket in FT (I could not find it at the time and I cannot find it now either under iClone 6 nor iClone 7). So I have opened my own.
RL got back to me and asked for a project. So I've sent them 2 separate projects with path and terrain a month ago.
It is quiet since then and my entry is still carry status "Active". What is the link to your entry?

By Rampa - 4 Years Ago
Maybe use a hinge constraint to attach your car to a dummy that follows the path? Just orient the hinge to rotate along the axis of the car.
By Rampa - 4 Years Ago
The "project to terrain" orients all the path points exactly vertically. I think you'll have much better luck leaving it off, as then your points will orient at appropriate tangents. Try using more path points instead, if necessary.

When something is attached to a path, it is really attached! It adheres to it exactly.

EDIT:
I am only partially correct. The points still appear at their proper tangents when "project to terrain" is used, but it treats them like they are exactly vertical. The last time I used that was version 4, and it was a bit different then.
By 4u2ges - 3 Years Ago
lol I certainly see the link (and I saw it yesterday). It looks like pointing to the FT issue - "Follow-path-follow-terrain-inversion-of-the-rotation-of-the-object".
But whenever I click on it, it does redirect to the default FT search page (I tried different browsers). Maybe it is hidden? Or you only see it when logged in to your account? Anyone see the same??

Yesterday I tried to search for the keyword "terrain" in FT (for iClone 6 and iClone 7) and it is still not finding your entry!

But here is mine anyway https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Follow-Terrain-and-Projected-Path-Inconsistensy