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By Matt GH - 8 Years Ago
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Hi everyone, I've been asked to set up a very complex scene of 10 minutes with 17 camera angles, many actors and lots of props. I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up the scene so that eventual changes would be easier to apply. The script is not finished yet, but the other departments need a visual reference, so many tweaks occour on weekly basis while the script evolves, based on their feedbacks on my previs.
By far I've been asked to: - Change one of the supporting actors from male to female - Add a new action and a new camera in the middle of the timeline - Change the duration of a specific camera/action - Change a prop on the background which will be visible in many shots
WORKING WITH 1 HUGE FILE: changing a prop or an actor will affect all the clip, so this operation is easier. On the other side, stretching a camera shot by 2 seconds will force me to shift a huge amount of keyframes for every other camera, motion and animation.
1 FILE FOR EACH CAMERA: better control over the action and the shots lenght, but changing a prop would force me to edit all the single files in which that prop is visible. Same goes if I'm asked to change/add a light source or anything that globally affects all the scene.
At the moment I'm using a very huge file with all the cameras and switch set up, but it's really a lot of elements to keep track of. Any tips?
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago
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@m.gherardi Usually, previs/layout work is done using one DCC scene per Sequence (can be called 'Scene' too), yet mostly using proxies or low-def assets. It does not mean the all scene must be continuous in time and apparently this is the trap you fell into. Each shot can be spaced by 100 or 1000 frames, this has no importance, you can even have a new shot added at the end even if it is the new second shot of the sequence meaning it does not matter if the shots are in order inside your iClone scene file. Then you just have to keep track of the in and out frame of each shot and render those separately (you can even render the all sequence at night then cut and reorder your shots later).
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By Kevin.S - 8 Years Ago
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Try to break up the scenes and use a video editor to edit it all together unless you have a card with 8 to 12 GB of memory which will get used real fast... This scene I created takes 11Gb of video memory in project mode. If you create 1 large scene you will need lots of video memory.
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By Matt GH - 8 Years Ago
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grabiller (1/15/2017)
Usually, previs/layout work is done using one DCC scene per Sequence (can be called 'Scene' too), yet mostly using proxies or low-def assets. It does not mean the all scene must be continuous in time and apparently this is the trap you fell into. Each shot can be spaced by 100 or 1000 frames, this has no importance, you can even have a new shot added at the end even if it is the new second shot of the sequence meaning it does not matter if the shots are in order inside your iClone scene file. Then you just have to keep track of the in and out frame of each shot and render those separately (you can even render the all sequence at night then cut and reorder your shots later).
Well, adding lots of "blank time" between the shots it's a very handy solution! The "switch" realtime playback will not be possible, but it's a fair trade in order to overcome the 2 major issues listed above.
Thanks for the tip! ;)
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By Matt GH - 8 Years Ago
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kevin.S (1/15/2017) Try to break up the scenes and use a video editor to edit it all together unless you have a card with 8 to 12 GB of memory which will get used real fast... This scene I created takes 11Gb of video memory in project mode. If you create 1 large scene you will need lots of video memory.
Memory is not a problem. But yes, I'm considering to split the file in many different shots and, to avoid the problem of the scene tweaks, render the backgrounds separately and merge them with a video editor. That could be a valid solution too.
Thanks for the tip!
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By Matt GH - 8 Years Ago
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sw00000p (1/15/2017)
GH storyboards (1/15/2017) ...render the backgrounds separately and merge them with a video editor. That could be a valid solution too.This is known as "Render Passes." As you gain more experience.... you'll find that compiling short scenes is your best bet, because if the "script" changes.... and they often do.... you have less to contend with. Just a suggestion. :)
Suggestion from experts are always very welcome! Thanks a lot! ;)
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By GreedyPeopleSuck - 8 Years Ago
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GH storyboards (1/15/2017) Hi everyone, I've been asked to set up a very complex scene of 10 minutes with 17 camera angles, many actors and lots of props. I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up the scene so that eventual changes would be easier to apply. The script is not finished yet, but the other departments need a visual reference, so many tweaks occour on weekly basis while the script evolves, based on their feedbacks on my previs.
By far I've been asked to: - Change one of the supporting actors from male to female - Add a new action and a new camera in the middle of the timeline - Change the duration of a specific camera/action - Change a prop on the background which will be visible in many shots
WORKING WITH 1 HUGE FILE: changing a prop or an actor will affect all the clip, so this operation is easier. On the other side, stretching a camera shot by 2 seconds will force me to shift a huge amount of keyframes for every other camera, motion and animation.
1 FILE FOR EACH CAMERA: better control over the action and the shots lenght, but changing a prop would force me to edit all the single files in which that prop is visible. Same goes if I'm asked to change/add a light source or anything that globally affects all the scene.
At the moment I'm using a very huge file with all the cameras and switch set up, but it's really a lot of elements to keep track of. Any tips?
It's for a storyboard, so it shouldn't matter breaking it up even if there is some weird seam somewhere. The brute force way is just to copy the file a few times and segment each shot. You can delete everything not needed before and after the shots. No need to change cameras this way.
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By justaviking - 8 Years Ago
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GH storyboards (1/15/2017) Suggestion from experts are always very welcome! Thanks a lot!
I'm not an expert, but I have struggled with this issue too.
I would recommend keeping a "single scene" (even a long one) in one project if at all possible.
Why? Because of the situations you described. If you make any changes, such as changing a character, or lighting, or anything, you then need to make the same change in multiple files or you'll have discontinuities in your scene.
But notice I would not suggest you put an entire 90-minute multi-scene movie in one project file.
A great friend for me has been the "Insert Frame" (and Delete Frame) that you can do on the timeline editor. If you need an extra second where you want to insert some action or extend a camera shot, place the cursor there and simply insert 60 frames. In iC5 it was horribly slow, but it has worked great in iC6, both insert and delete takes only a second or two whereas it could take 5 to 20 minutes in iC5. (I like to think my feedback had an influence on it, but who knows.)
Since Insert/Delete frame works so well, I sometimes put in "plenty of space" between segments to give myself room to work, and then as I neared completion, I could delete the extra space. A person could cut out the spaces in your NLE, especially if it coincides with a camera cut. In my project, I was waiting for the actual voice-overs from my vocal talent, so I used my own voice to get started on the project, but I knew the final lines might be a bit longer (or spoken more slowly), so that is why I had a lot of buffer zones in the project. If the lady spoke for 6 seconds instead of 5, I didn't overlap other things in the project.
One quick tip about camera angles... I originally used the camera "switcher" to change from camera-to-camera, but found myself often getting confused between one camera or another. People with real-world experience might render the entire scene multiple times, once from each camera angle, and do all the cutting in their NLE, just as if they filmed on location in real life.
I now often use just one camera, and use a "Step" function to "cut" from one angle to another. If I needed to re-use a camera position, I could just Ctrl-Drag to copy a camera's Transform keyframe. I might still use 2 or 3 cameras, but this had really minimized my camera count.
It might not work for everyone, but I found that approach to be much less confusing and error prone than trying to do the bookkeeping on half a dozen different cameras.
Lastly: Will you be able to share some work-in-progress (WIP) video clips with us?
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago
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Just to precise my suggestion, using one file per Scene at the previz/layout step is quite mandatory at first because this is precisely the step where you usually decide of the actual shots, so you can't do this with split files at first if you don't know the shots. But even with a storyboard or a precise list of shots it is convenient to start with a file per scene/sequence.
It does not mean it stays that way for the all duration of the fabrication of the movie. Previz/Layout -> Animation/VFX -> Lighting -> Rendering -> Compositing -> Grading
Usually the difference between Previz and Layout is that at Previz step, if any, the assets do not exist yet (no characters or sets or props are available) while at Layout step, those are often available, modeling is done, at least low-rez version but sometimes high-rez ones too, and sometimes texturing and shading is already done too or done at the same time.
Once the Layout is done, the Animation step can start and there should be some sort of validation by the client/director regarding the number of shots and their order. It is very annoying if not difficult then to change these in production (unless they inject more money ; ).
The Layout scene files are then split into 'Shot' files for animation, with usually low proxies for everything except for contact zones and what's animated will usually be kept high-rez except if you have special version of your character having 'light' skinning in order to speed up the display. VFX will be done either before, after or in parallel of the animation. Lighting will be done with another set of Shot files, not the same used for animation, with high-rez elements, subdivided (tesselated) at that point, baked animation integrated, sometimes rebuilt from scratch automatically from scripting. And Rendering will be done usually with the Ligthing scene.
You see, it is not as simple as opening a file and doing everything in it, or creating 50 files and do every shots in those, it is slightly more complex but for a reason: The Layout defines the shots and what's in those and how elements are placed and how they roughly move and of course camera work. From that you can efficiently split your scene in Shots, adapted for Animation, for VFX, for Lighting. Elements that are not seen by the camera can be omitted in the split shot files for instance.
Of course this is how it is done in the industry and this may be a bit overkill for an Hobbyist, but nonetheless this may help anyone to better organize his work when confronted to a large amount of data for ambitious projects.
Having soon scripting capabilities, iClone7 may help a lot in this area to ease pipeline building, and this is very exciting : )
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By Matt GH - 8 Years Ago
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justaviking (1/15/2017)
A great friend for me has been the "Insert Frame" (and Delete Frame) that you can do on the timeline editor. If you need an extra second where you want to insert some action or extend a camera shot, place the cursor there and simply insert 60 frames. Wow, THAT'S what I was looking for! Thank a lot, pal! Didn't know about this feature! :D
justaviking (1/15/2017)
Will you be able to share some work-in-progress (WIP) video clips with us? Unfortunately not yet, but I hope soon :)
grabiller (1/15/2017)
Usually the difference between Previz and Layout is that at Previz step, if any, the assets do not exist yet (no characters or sets or props are available) while at Layout step, those are often available, modeling is done, at least low-rez version but sometimes high-rez ones too, and sometimes texturing and shading is already done too or done at the same time. Unfortunately the director I'm working with wants something "well refined, visually astonishing, but heavily editable".. With these assumptions I need to optimize the workflow as much as possible :P
grabiller (1/15/2017)
Having soon scripting capabilities, iClone7 may help a lot in this area to ease pipeline building, and this is very exciting : ) Can't wait for it! :D
Thank you all for the good advices! :)
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago
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GH storyboards (1/15/2017)
grabiller (1/15/2017)
Usually the difference between Previz and Layout is that at Previz step, if any, the assets do not exist yet (no characters or sets or props are available) while at Layout step, those are often available, modeling is done, at least low-rez version but sometimes high-rez ones too, and sometimes texturing and shading is already done too or done at the same time. Unfortunately the director I'm working with wants something "well refined, visually astonishing, but heavily editable".. With these assumptions I need to optimize the workflow as much as possible :P I'm not surprised here, some (so called) Directors are often dreaming and not sure of themselves.
Your job is also to put their feet back on earth, because having all the flexibility, the quality and the speed, has a cost! (I hope you make them pay to have something "well refined, visually astonishing and highly editable" as this is quite rare even in the industry lol)
If you let them do what they want then this always ends up by you doing the all movie with final rendering, camera work, animation, lighting and all. Then they will happily tell you: "Nice previz! Now lets edit/change everything!" Basically you will do the all movie several times.
True Directors don't do that, they can project their vision, they know what they want and how it is done, and are able to validate early at each step. But that's another story.. ; )
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By planetstardragon - 8 Years Ago
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Keep it simple.
as a real time animation program, iclone will record your real time actions on everything that can be recorded all the time, you can't turn it off.. Iclone will recalculate keyframes until baked and are subject to change / errors as the file gets larger, the larger the file, the more potential for changes / error. the worst feeling is painstakingly working on an animation, only to have it undone by something you did much later in the scene or even worse than that, having a file go rogue and corrupt on you, if you search the forum there are a ton of posts complaining about files that simply stopped loading.
The smaller the file, the less that can go wrong.
Cheers.
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By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago
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I'll second the KISS method of production, and suggest we consider our 'budgets' many movies go over budget because the crew couldn't keep it simple. We, often as individuals, need to budget our time and make the same sorts of decisions people make when money is involved, because for independent filmmakers, time is literally our money. We cave to consider what the 'costs' are in adding anything to our production.
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By planetstardragon - 8 Years Ago
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my personal fav workflow is having my video editor, and iclone up at the same time - I cut small parts and assemble them quickly in the editor, basically getting my animator and editor working in the same room - creatively that's a boost as your options for effects instantly open up. - and it really lets you tailor your lighting and effects on the fly.
iclone is a double edge sword, it's deceptively simple, things that should be simple are mind boggling, and things that are usually complicated have mind numbing simple solutions. If you really want to enjoy iclone, expect to spend more time troubleshooting and pioneering than creating. Uniting the video editing into this workflow, brings back some of the creative space. you loose from crashes, bugs, and limitations found in iclone. - ie - instead of spending 14 hours trying to tweak the perfect fire in iclone particle effects, just green screen a real one over a preset fire...next shot. - understand iclones limitations, quirks and drawbacks and you will be able to make star wars 20 in like weeks because it's strong points are damned strong.....but if you try to use iclone as a one stop solution, then you will be in tutorial limbo wondering why you are spending more time in maya trying to get a shot in iclone. :blink:
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By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago
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I'm kinda excited to see what a Hitfilm/iClone partnership might yield eventually. It would be great to have some sort of 'render and send to Hitfilm as composition clip' sorta thing, with Hitfilm's particle and lighting effects available inside iClone. Or something like that. I just hope it goes beyond simple marketing.
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By planetstardragon - 8 Years Ago
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one more reason I like this approach is old hollywood techniques and mattes. you could do some amazing realistic shots, or serious tooning by using mattes and green screening elements of the shots from iclone. - #MAGA - make animating great again!

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By rgreenidge - 8 Years Ago
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I have a lot of things and cameras in my projects, but I break up my export files into 3000 frames and name them with a suffix a-z, because even with all the memory I have now and switching from a 8 core AMD processor with 32 GB of RAM, I crashed regularly whether I used PNG sequence, mp4 format or any other output format I tried. Here's a idea that may help you, if you want to record each camera separately. Record the project using each camera, say 1-8. Now if all goes well and no rendering output crashes, you will end up with 8 separate videos. I have use just about ever Windows video editor out there, and my favorite and most comfortable one is Magix. The newer version which I don't have yet lets use the H.265 format with looks fantastic compared to the H.264 which you can look up on You Tube, and I have the link somewhere on my postings here. With Magix, and they have some cheaper versions, look for the ones with multi-cam editing, I think they have 30 day free trial, I'm not really sure about the time, but they have a tutorial on the multi-cam, and I'm not sure about the max number of tracks of tracks you can use. I think that varies depending on what version you have. But you place each camera video on their separate timeline, but not timelines #1 & #2, that's used for the final output; you will see the video of all the cameras at one time, on one side (I hope you have more than one monitor to use as I do with iClone to separate things), then you can pick out which camera you want to use at that moment by just clicking on it. Other video editing software may have this feature and you can try it on theirs if it works the same. I might just try that myself when I get some time, it looks interesting. With iClone I do run into the mental memory of which camera was what view sometimes. It would be great to see all the camera views at one time using video editing multi-cam software. The sacrifice would be if do you have the file storage space, that each camera would need hours to produce that video. So if each scene video took 5 hours to render; 5 x 8 would be 40 hours, or almost 2 days. So hopefully you have another computer to do your what you normally do, because that computer is going to be tied up for a while, and that is only with 8 cameras. 5 hours is just a average, it could be a lot more or less. Yesterday I compared a scene using PNG sequential to mp4, at it's highest settings and then converted the PNG's to mp4 to compare to how they would look on a Blu~Ray disc, the one with the PNG was a little larger in size, and looked only a little better but not that much. Good luck with how ever you go, but I think if I was in your situation where other than yourself have say in the final video, I would go for the 8 single camera video files and use a video editing program with multi-cam features where you can see what cameras are doing what in real time and decide when to switch cameras with the others. 8 cameras should be enough in most cases.
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By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago
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I came over from doing animations in Poser and then to HitFilm, I never made much of consequence, but there is a lot of flexibility in working in layers as opposed to a full render out of iClone. Transparency and DOF for example are poor in iClone, faking a close up of a character with say long hair talking over the background looks a lot better if you forgo DOF in iClone and blur a background layer in your compositor.
One trick I did with Poser since it is a beast to render animation with, is to render in layers by manipulating the clipping plane, so you render three slices of your shot and can change the lighting, contrast, blur, whatever to each separately (or whatever many you want, would be fine). This technique should work the same in iClone as it allows you to set a camera's clipping plane.
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By planetstardragon - 8 Years Ago
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yap! Animators like Ralph Bakshi use to use the techniques to create more depth with background, like he would make the buildings / environment darker so the characters would pop out. If you watch a lot of behind the scenes hollywood videos, you'll see how well iclone works in that workflow.
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By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago
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We should also remember that real filmmakers use CGI all the time to remove stuff from a scene that gets in the way. I know I get caught up trying to create sweeping scenic sets that look great from all angles and a flyover to boot, but if you go to Hollywood, partial facades are the norm and anything that doesn't need to get on camera is avoided or removed. We have to trick they eye to see an expansive world, not necessarily build them. Anyhow, I'm a total beginner, but every time I watch a 3 minute short with a cast and crew of say 20, I feel a little better about my abilities and efforts.
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By Matt GH - 8 Years Ago
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planetstardragon (1/15/2017) If you really want to enjoy iclone, expect to spend more time troubleshooting and pioneering than creating. Uniting the video editing into this workflow, brings back some of the creative space. you loose from crashes, bugs, and limitations found in iclone. - ie - instead of spending 14 hours trying to tweak the perfect fire in iclone particle effects, just green screen a real one over a preset fire...next shot. - understand iclones limitations, quirks and drawbacks and you will be able to make star wars 20 in like weeks because it's strong points are damned strong.....but if you try to use iclone as a one stop solution, then you will be in tutorial limbo wondering why you are spending more time in maya trying to get a shot in iclone. :blink:
That's definitely a good point of view! ;)
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By justaviking - 8 Years Ago
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eternityblue (1/15/2017) Anyhow, I'm a total beginner, but every time I watch a 3 minute short with a cast and crew of say 20, I feel a little better about my abilities and efforts.
Well said. I try to console myself with that thought, too. Why does Pixar have a "lighting department?" You can only expect so much from a team of one person.
PlanetStarDragon brought up a good point... Crashes and corruption.
Make it a habit to "Save As" frequently. Anytime you've done enough work that you cringe at the thought of having to do it again, do a Save As. Epic_film_scene_1-01 Epic_film_scene_1-02 Epic_film_scene_1-03... Whatever naming convention works for you.
If you have a crash, and the project actually becomes corrupted (it can happen), you then have the ability to go back a version or two, and only lose a day of work, rather than weeks.
P.S. I cast a vote for the "Singe file" approach but I did that with emphasis on "single scene," not "entire project." And of course there can always be exceptions and special circumstances.
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By Terry Miller - 8 Years Ago
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Just a quick question, regarding having several iterations of a file, in case one corrupts... One very interesting thing that I see Alan Marques do is, instead of saving files, he actually saves the scenes in the Custom folder. Theoretically, I can see how this would be an advantage, because then, if a file corrupts, you should still be able to just load the scene itself into a new file, without losing all of your work. Has anyone used this technique on a regular basis in real life, and if so, does it work as well in practice as the theory suggests it should?
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By mark - 8 Years Ago
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Terry Miller (2/10/2017) Has anyone used this technique on a regular basis in real life, and if so, does it work as well in practice as the theory suggests it should?
It's worked for me for my years with iClone!!!!;)
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By animagic - 8 Years Ago
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@Terry: I don't really understand the question, because a file is just a file... Is it a project file? (A scene being equivalent to a project.) What I usually do is save 3 iterations of a project. So if there is a problem, not all is lost.
I also have scheduled daily backups, which is helpful if I overwrite something by accident. Since version 6, iClone has a restore function, so in case of a crash not all is lost. That has saved me heaps of time on occasion.
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago
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On a side note, KISS is a trap if you are doing complicated or ambitious stuff. If you do complicated or ambitious stuff then inevitably your pipeline and workflow will become more complicated, you will have to accept it one way or another. It does not mean you can't apply KISS with this complexity though, but it will never be as simple as you might think or want.
If you don't split your data at some point, you wont be able to do anything. By splitting I mean, for instance, having one version of your Character for rendering, another one for animation. It does not matter if your 'rendering' iClone shot file is unmanageable (by that I mean very heavy) - as long as it renders without crash of course - if you have lighter one for animations that you transfer to the rendering one.
By splitting I also mean doing things step by step, doing previz/layout for instance, before you engage into animation and then ligthing/rendering, that's at least 3 scene file different generations per shot. It is also a way to better keep your data safe in case of crashes.
Directly creating your final iCllone scene files shot meant to receive everything, be animated and finally rendered is prone to great frustrations. It might work up to some point but if your project is really ambitious, you will inevitably hit a wall.
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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Terry Miller (2/10/2017) Just a quick question, regarding having several iterations of a file, in case one corrupts... One very interesting thing that I see Alan Marques do is, instead of saving files, he actually saves the scenes in the Custom folder. Theoretically, I can see how this would be an advantage, because then, if a file corrupts, you should still be able to just load the scene itself into a new file, without losing all of your work. Has anyone used this technique on a regular basis in real life, and if so, does it work as well in practice as the theory suggests it should?
Saving the project is essentially doing that. It always saves to your custom folder. But I think you're referring to a "3D Scene"? That is one of the often overlooked file types for iClone. It always saves the scene as terrain, so you'll need to convert what you need editable back to a prop. It will also replace any existing terrain when you load it. That can be a bit of a surprise. ;)
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By michael7 - 8 Years Ago
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Whenever I'm about to make a change or addition to a file I save it under a different name, eg.; 1. Main file 2. Main file 2, feb 7th 3, Main file 3, feb 7th 545 pm 4 Main file 4, Feb 8th etc...
It adds up but very safe, especially being able to go back if I've done something I later decide I don't like and need to go back. I have a 2 TB hard drive so no issues yet of running out of room, but even that's okay because once I'm sure of the direction I go back and delete older files.
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By rgreenidge - 8 Years Ago
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After looking at the top again and what you are asking. Unless I missed something all these years? You cannot export a file with multiple cameras, you can use camera switching on the timeline, but all the other cameras will not be included or added to the file, only one camera at a time. So it would not be that much bigger than a single camera file. If you made only single camera files and do not switch the cameras, the size of the files may vary depending on how much info that each camera sees from it's angle. If you use all 16 cameras to make 16 separate files, the best bet is to have a video editing program that has multi-cam switching so you can see all the cameras at the same time in real time, and just click switch to the one you want at that moment. I use Magix, but never for that. I saw the other day that Cyberlink has a video editing program, and that it's multi-cam function looked pretty easy and was set up where there was a good view of all the cams at the same time. All have about 30 day free trials, see which works best and more comfortable for you, or any other. Maybe if you have a video editor, maybe it has multi-cam and you just didn't know it. But it's a lot of rendering time to make separate cam shots, and HD space. If I was in your place, I'd think I load the project and you use the timeline to switch to the best camera view in your opinion. When the significant others show up, show them your project and then tell them the cameras can be switched if they don't like them, and then show the view from each camera. Knowing human nature, most would probably go along with what you've done, than to waste more time. It's only when you have those that have to have a input, and with those I hope you have the power to say, why don't you just do the whole switching thing yourself, or have him sit down with you. Me, I didn't play that. I'm open to suggestions, but I want to be in the position to the final say. "Well I told him to move the camera back a half of inch"... Please. Sorry but I also think iClone 7's real camera sizes have no real impact. Whatever it is I'm going to shrink it into 1920 x 1080 until I can render in 265H and 4K and put it on a BR disc.
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago
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rgreenidge (2/11/2017) ../..Unless I missed something all these years? You cannot export a file with multiple cameras, you can use camera switching on the timeline, but all the other cameras will not be included or added to the file, only one camera at a time../.. You can save as many cameras as you want into a iClone scene file.
rgreenidge (2/11/2017) ../..So it would not be that much bigger than a single camera file. If you made only single camera files and do not switch the cameras, the size of the files may vary depending on how much info that each camera sees from it's angle../.. iClone does not do Occlusion/Frustum Culling before saving a scene file. Whether an item is seen by any camera present in the scene or not, the item will be saved into the scene file.
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By rgreenidge - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks Grabiller, I didn't know the 16 camera limitation was changed, or what version, I just checked. I was so happy when the lighting limitation was lifted that I didn't know or read that also the cameras were included. 12-14 cameras is what I normally usually use in my projects.
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