iClone 7 Work in Progress Video 1

iClone 7 Work in Progress Video 1 - Now Available

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By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/e85d8425-9d97-4f0d-86ee-d477.png

To find out even more about the new exciting features coming in iClone 7 please click HERE.

https://www.reallusion.com/event/iClone7-preorder/

By bigh43 - 9 Years Ago

looks super
but what kind of computer well we need ?

By rampart - 9 Years Ago

What is time limit for Pre-Order period?
Will the 7 and Exchange be released at the same time?

I noticed there seemed to be some type of progressive improvements all the way until February.
Does that mean the actual release is in February, or will it be pieced out over time?
If there will be periodic releases until final completion is there a planned schedule?

By brand468 - 9 Years Ago

IClone 7 looks amazing, impressive improvements :-)
As usual, it will be difficult to wait for the release :-)
Personally, I still hope for improved particle effects, 3D particles of fire and smoke effects.
Perhaps in part 2?

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

rampart (11/25/2016)

The pre-order period ends December 31.

The way I understand it is that you will get a pre-release version to play with, but it's not the final version. Remember, actual Beta testing takes place at the same time. Its purpose is to get feedback from users for further improvements. Sort of an expanded "Beta" test with a 1000 users. So you wouldn't want to use this initial version for critical production work as not everything may work as expected. Peter also mentioned that not all features will be in 7.0, and more will be added in 7.1.

By RobertoColombo - 9 Years Ago

Is it possible to have the phone number of the girl at minute 6' 20" ? :P
Oh no... Don't kid me... it WAS real... it's not a 3D rendering... ;)

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Are the system requirements available yet?

By brand468 - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p (11/25/2016)

brand468 (11/25/2016)

...Personally, I still hope for improved particle effects, 3D particles of fire and smoke effects.

They DID improve particle effects. Please review... (think it's called) "Submissive Textures"

Fire Place:
~ They dropped in a particle and was able to drastically change the effect.:)

Hi sw00000p,
Yes, I saw it in the video, a great improvement :-)
What I had hoped for was real 3D particle settings:
- Particle bounce when hitting a wall or a hidden layer
- Particle blocking so it stops at a wall
- Reduce speed on particle to make more realistic smoke
- Pre start so particle is fully grown at on first frame rendering
https://forum.reallusion.com/107775/Advanced-particle-settings
https://forum.reallusion.com/215427/3D-particle-effects

But this is only a preview so hope still remains, yet impressed and excited at the iClone 7 release :-)

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

I always like my particles submissive. ;)

By brand468 - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/25/2016)

I always like my particles submissive. ;)

By duchess110 - 9 Years Ago

I would also very much like to know system requirements that will be needed for iC7 to function properly.

As there are problems a few of us have discovered with using iC6.5 on Windows 7.

Also I personally am now cautious when Reallusion state that they are going to implement things in stages.
I can recall when iC6 was launched that GoZ was a very much talked about feature that was going to be introduced but then it was shelved.

By urbanlamb - 9 Years Ago

brand468 (11/25/2016)

rampa (11/25/2016)

I always like my particles submissive. ;)

they are special particles and very cooperative it seems LOL

I still like others would like to see a 3d particle with the physics and the other coolness that goes with it, but this is good too its enough to convince me i dont need to get something like hitfilm and I could use blender as my compositor and save some money..

I already have a video editor I like so..my big thing was shinies like fire and whatnot... lets see what the rest of the wip videos are maybe they snuck 3dparticles in too? :)

By Kevin.S - 9 Years Ago

Looks great so far!!!! hoping for water physics / particle system

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

They DID improve particle effects

That's a good start but seriously I reaally though that they make the same step forward ....
Particles system need:
-Bounce object
-vector field
-mesh emitter
-sprite or image sequence texture
-improve refraction render

I asked on facebook about the "open architecture" if developper could implement the NVIDIA Flow
for exemple and they answer "that's the idea".
So just for fun I send an e-mail to PopCornFx for may they could be interested to develop their UDK,UNITY
particles plugin for the new Iclone 7 :-)

May my seed will grow....

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

Yes, watch out! There will be different options for particle effect generators you can choose from in future.

By jollyro - 9 Years Ago

Great looking video. Looks amazing. Very promising first view. But what is about the Hardware? I guess, you will need a real good machine for that. For us non professionals or semi professionals is that a very important point. I guess that at least my old NVidia 650TI will not be enough for that anymore, still working well with IC6, but I have already some sacrifices to make.

My machine: HP Pavilion upgraded with 750 Watt, 7 GB HD-space, I-7 2nd Generation,3,67 mhz, NVidia 650TI, 24GB memory, 2 (hp) 2311 monitors

Is that good enough for IC 7? (I run Pro, I do not make any games, Video only)

By jollyro - 9 Years Ago

Oh, I forgot one. Please make it possible in the new version, that you can save your Workspace even for a 2 or 3 monitor setup. At the moment it will all be on Monitor one, if I start it up. Not a biggie, just some nice add on....

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

I think you need, at least, a "Maxwell" card for the VXGI. So that would be a GTX 970, I believe.

I remember Nvidia really hyping that they could recreate the lighting of the moon landing quite nicely with the VXGI.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/25/2016)

So, does that mean GI is a no-go for us lowly GTX 750 owners?

From the marketing blurb:

Utilizing NVIDIA’s leading real-time VXGIVXGI (Voxel Cone Tracing technology), iClone 7 greatly improves visual realism by including secondary light reflections over Diffuse and Specular surfaces. Users can easily level-up their existing projects to achieve superbly fine video renders in a fraction of the time, even when using slower GPU systems.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

I'm not sure if you can do it on a lower level, card or not. It would be a lot slower if you can, because it wouldn't be hardware accelerated. But you really only need to use it for final render, and to spot-check occasionally, so maybe.

By rgreenidge - 9 Years Ago

I think I may pre-order on the 31st of December, or the last day. I like the lighting effects most of all, but I'm not buying a NVidia video card if that is the only system that would work with it. The video of iC7 was nice and it popped up on my You tube, I was surprised I wasn't expecting to see anything on iC7 for a while. Well I think I have enough CPU power, RAM, and 8GB of video RAM? I like the real camera options. I'm surprised there is only one version, there's no iClone7 Pro. I hope with all the great detail you see in the new program, we'll get a better or the best mp4 (h264), mp5 (h265) rendering encoders, so I'll have nothing to complain about again? Haven't had a decent mp4 encoder since iC4. Meanwhile I work with what I got, but I can't wait to try it and see if it makes improvements with my iC6 projects. My only question everything works fine, when you got one or two Avatars. Load that baby up, and see what iC7 can handle? For those who didn't see my other post. I went from maxing using AMD motherboards to now back to Intel. On my Intel Mboard, I went from 64GB of memory to 96GB and now 128GB. And every increase I've seen a difference with the same project. So regardless that some people will tell you that you don't need more than? Yes I use a lot of avatars, and very few CC avatars (high memory) if any? The only problem I have now is with video rendering once I added more avatars once I got the 96GB of memory to do so, IClone 6 stops working during rendering no matter if I use PNG or mp4. I'm just going to use sequential (PNG) and break up the project in video parts. Annoying but that will work. I hope I don't have the same problem with iClone 7. AMD or INTEL, my biggest problems have been with the video rendering encoding with iClone 6, Win 7 and or 10 Pro. Only time will tell. Ready to buy & try.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

I can't wait to try it and see if it makes improvements with my iC6 projects

If you change nothing : No.
Understand what's going on with the next version. You must use the new features to get the new GI.
You will have to add some stuff to get improvement because your project was build in the 6.
Don't expect having PBR render if your prop/assets are not with PBR textures , etc.....
But I'm shure that it will be very easy to update our Iclone 6 project to get improvment.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

Seriously , it's the 18th time I wach this video and did you notice that there's coherent reflexion
on floor , object, etc... but no mention of that :blink: That a very good feature too in my opinion.
But may it's a natural consequence of PBR ?

The video on tV reflected on the floor in realtime.... wow!

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Flat mirror at 9:10 looks to be reflecting the room. Could it be? Really? :D

By will2power71 - 9 Years Ago

I would be curious to see them show us some more of the characters and how they look in the new Render Engine. They were very good on showing us a lot of the non-human stuff. I'm sure I'm not the only one curious to see how the Character Character creator Characters stack up in the new system a bit more in depth. Personally, I would like to see what the speedtrees look like along with the Iclone sky in this or whether or not we're going to have a replacement for them. Everything looked great though --I'm just really curious to see what improvements in character rendering we're going to see if any with this render system --particularly want to know if we're going to get SSS in any form or fashion. It's really exciting though.

By justaviking - 9 Years Ago

@Will... Did you see the lady at 6:10?

@Rampa... I want to believe it's a real mirror at 9:10, but my guess it's reflecting the environment like the sphere does at (4:14 to 4:34). I'm thinking it's an HDR image of the room that they made with iC7.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

There is also the closeup of the face from 3DTest in there. I do believe it has some glow-channel that gives it an "SSS" look.

It is actually a cool trick you can do in iC6 as well. Save the diffuse of the face, and load it into the glow channel. You'll need to keep the strength sorta low. Sometimes de-saturating the color works better. The method only works for light-toned skin though!

Yeah. that mirror may just be the IBL, but is normal scale. ;)

By rogyru - 9 Years Ago

Previews look quality , lighting effects and PBR and GI look great. Think investing time in learning PBR and substances and HDR etc will produce some great results . Hope your still going to be able to import Sbar the same way .Allegorithmic offer a buy as your rent service for $20 a month you get to use all there tools and can download 30 susbtances a month from there store, so in a couple of months you could build your self a good libary of PBR substances as well as the ones on offer in the RL store

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/26/2016)

Flat mirror at 9:10 looks to be reflecting the room. Could it be? Really? :D

Have just this minute finished watching it again, just for the purpose of reflection, and here's my observation of the system. That mirror you mention, does seem to be reflecting the room, but it's as as bad as it always was if that wall it's reflecting opposite is as far away from the mirror as I think it is. It appears to be suffering from that same enlargement problem when you reflect on a flat surface (but I hope I'm wrong). That said, something they've done that is very beneficial to reflection, is in fact, the baking system. So we could use that feature to make the mirror do a perfect reflection, by baking it's own scene as a mirror reflection, for the mirror itself. Perfect PBR mirror reflection of the scene it sits in!

But a HDR reflection is static, so that means it will only reflect a static scene. If you had a figure walk in front of it, there would be no reflection of the figure if we have to do it that way.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

Ooops, sorry, didn't see those recent posts!

By Space 3D - 9 Years Ago

Hair or Fur for better visual on iCLONE 7 .
Pleeeeeeease UPGRADE with :
NVDIA https://developer.nvidia.com/hairworks

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Yes, definitely, hair needs a huge revamp.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Now I'm wondering if other things from Nvidia GameWorks will be finding there way into iClone?

There's all kinds of stuff. Hair, waves, grass, etc. The VXGI is part of Gameworks.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

I think yes Rampa. Regarding what Reallusion answer me to my question of open architecture wich
that's the idea to let developpers integrate the Nvidia Game works API. Reallusion can't do everything,
that's how UDK and Unity grow there engine : with other developpers....

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/25/2016)

VXGI greatly benefits from the hardware features built into Maxwell 2, but it is not strictly reliant on the hardware. That is what I found out so far.

That makes sense, because they can´t exclude the AMD graphics card users anyway.

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

rgreenidge (11/25/2016)

I'm surprised there is only one version, there's no iClone7 Pro.

iClone 7 Pro IS the only version. There is no more Standard (which in my opinion is a good thing). For 3DXchange there will be Pro and Pipeline.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/26/2016)

Now I'm wondering if other things from Nvidia GameWorks will be finding there way into iClone?

There's all kinds of stuff. Hair, waves, grass, etc. The VXGI is part of Gameworks.

They should, because it will look kinda odd, if you have hair and fur looking like straw in that high-end engine, just to give an example. I noticed that gap already in the video.

By will2power71 - 9 Years Ago

justaviking (11/26/2016)

@Will... Did you see the lady at 6:10?

Yes, I did see that. There wasn't a lot of information on the characters --not like they did with the PBR Materials and effects. I am hoping that if they do a part 2 that they will go onto the specifics about what will be available. They gave a good amount of information on everything but the characters and how they render. I really would like to see a full video that focused in the same fashion on what we can expect for character creator characters or imported characters. I would also like to know whether or not the PBR aspects are going to be of some value to speedtrees and things like water. So that's what I'm hoping we'll see in the next video.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

JJJAM (11/26/2016)

rampa (11/25/2016)

I'm downloading the Apollo demo Nvidia released with Maxwell, to try it out. It does say minimum requirements are a 970. I don't expect it to work on my 770.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

It will not work because the demo is limited to those specs, but VXGI is not the issue.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Where are you seeing that it will run on non-Nvidia hardware? Everything I have found says 970 minimum.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/26/2016)

Where are you seeing that it will run on non-Nvidia hardware? Everything I have found says 970 minimum.

I just read it on the Geforce forums. I hope that information is reliable tho.

By Postfrosch - 9 Years Ago

iClone 7 Pro IS the only version. There is no more Standard (which in my opinion is a good thing). For 3DXchange there will be Pro and Pipeline.

@animgic
Yes 3dx 7 there are the pro + pipeline versions.Only the Pro is individually unusable.
With this Veriuon you can ONLY import.
An export from IC is NOT possible (not times as an obj file)
You can not export and edit meshes
It is now all possible only 3dx7 pipeline.
Costs only 200 $ more
Greets from Germany
Postfrosch

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

That is also the case with v6. I get why the pipeline costs more, being able to get stuff out after all is what pipeline is all about, ie. It integrates with other tools in a professional production environment. Makes perfect sense to me.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

I think I might have overestimated something earlier in another thread.

Watching the video again, I wonder why, as this video was to demonstrate the Visual Enhancements, we haven't seen or heard anything about the post-processing part of the engine. On closer inspection, it looks like they have the same Bloom as before, and there was no hint of Motion Blur in any movement I saw. The Ambient Occlusion looks like the same as the old type (which I hate), but thankfully, with that Global Illumination stuff, we probably won't need to use it. A final observation was that the Anti-Aliasing looks like crap (but that could be down to video card settings and I hope it is). But I'm definitely a bit concerned not to have seen any mention about Post-Processing, and there is no mention of it in the listed specs. I would have expected to see something written like ...

Post-Processing Enhancements :
- Bloom
- Motion Blur
- Film Grain
- Chromatic Aberration

Not a word or a sighting of it though, and the "Visual Enhancements" video has already been done.
The only post-processing thing I read about, was LUT support.

Curiosity rant aside, a cool thing I just noticed was that it has "Custom Shader" support, but is there anyone on here who can program them?
And if you can, would you be able to make an Anisotropic shader with Radial and Linear Anisotropy ability?

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

VXGI has it's own AO as part of it. Watch for the setting in the left hand panel when they turn the VXGI on. The indoor shots look to be using the "old" AO (as well?). What we have now for post should still be there, and probably a bit more. They were probably in a bit of a rush to get the video all put together. There are a bunch of different pieces from different users, so there is going to be some variation from personal styles and time constraints. It looks like the indoor scenes needed super-sampling, but it was not turned on.

What's new is the VXGI and PBR, so that is what they would be showcasing. Being able to use anything emissive for a light source is very impressive, albeit, not exactly what you are looking for. Because anything can be emissive, you get cool stuff like color bleeding between objects. VXGI uses emissive light for the global illumination.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/26/2016)

Hell yeah, I'm loving all that VXGI stuff big-time, Rampa, no question about it - love all of it!!!
Can't remember which thread it was off-hand, but I especially raved about that moving image on the TV screen giving-off realtime animated Global Illumination - that's just nuts :w00t:

Wasn't aware of it having AO built into VXGI though, so thanks for pointing it out, I'll have to play the video again just to see the settings you're talking about, and pause the video this time. Regards the indoor scene, yes, I think it's definitely using the old AO there, and to be honest I think it's used in the outdoor scene as well, cause it doesn't appear to work well with fog distance. If there are two types, and they can be used together, they should have told the demonstration artists to stop demonstrating with the old version, and just leave it switched-off altogether. I feel the same way about the old post-processor we already have, it's bloody aweful and not even suited to animation. The old Bloom rapidly fluctuates when animating, it's the wrong type of bloom to use for an animation program, so I was hoping they fixed that with a new post-processor.

Man, I really hope we don't have to put-up with that old post-processor, in fact I won't, I just won't use it. I expected it to be like a modern game engine in that you can see motion blur, film grain, chromatic aberration and all that lot, live, while you're actually working on your animation. So I've mixed feelings at the moment on that one (that are hopefully unfounded). On the one hand I can't imagine they'd spoil the engine by not having that stuff, but on the other hand, RL make some very bad decisions sometimes - so I really hope neglecting the post-processor isn't one of them. The reason I have my doubts about it is because, like I say, the Visual Enhancements part is done with, but no mention of this stuff and I haven't seen anythig to that effect either, nothing :blink:

I'm glad I brought this up, cause I wasn't aware of VXGI AO, so that's a bloody relief.
Odd they didn't make sure to demonstrate the new AO instead of the old one though!

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

Postfrosch (11/26/2016)

iClone 7 Pro IS the only version. There is no more Standard (which in my opinion is a good thing). For 3DXchange there will be Pro and Pipeline.

As I elaborated in another thread, my impression is that the comparison chart was put together in haste and contains errors. It wouldn't be the first time. For example, for both Pro and Pipeline, no iClone formats are included in the list of import formats and SKP importing is missing as well, which sort of defeat the purpose of 3DXchange. I hope we'll get actual factual confirmation next week.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

The VXGI AO is going to depend a lot on the actual VXGI settings used. Because the scene is being voxelized to generate a simpler representation of the lighting, it will depend greatly on the size of the voxel grid used. This is an adjustable parameter, again on the left. The "simpler" lighting model means that nothing is ever sharp (as in really sudden contrast change), which is fine for AO. That is also why it does not do sharp reflections. But the PBR can, and so using the two together gives you a very nice composite of the two qualities. The finer the voxel grid chosen, the sharper it can be.

By Space 3D - 9 Years Ago

I think iClone 7 is successor of iClone 6 .
Looks the display menu .
Same with iClone 6 , but more a lot ot Feature .

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/02eb5160-487e-4a90-8e49-fab0.jpg

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

Regarding the disclaimer of the WIP 1 and the facebook answer , The interface will certainely change...

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/22243d91-e7c8-4a2f-9017-a59a.png

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/a1ef90df-f14f-4fd1-a9e6-c4fb.png

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

mtakerkart (11/27/2016)

Regarding the disclaimer of the WIP 1 and the facebook answer , The interface will certainely change...

I'm very curious to see what they have done for the facial animation panel and controls as well. It has to support enough blend shapes for the facial mocap system they chose. The next WIP video is due in January.

By wires - 9 Years Ago

There are so many good things going on in the video that it needs to be watched many times just to catch all of them. One that I hope makes it to the final release is the on-screen video memory display that should help any user with a "borderline" GPU - and even those with a high end one.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/f5a7c767-5a3c-40e4-8522-a8f9.png

By wires - 9 Years Ago

The improvements in the lighting system from IC5 to IC6 were one factor in the increase in ArchiVis render jobs that I got. The new possibilities demonstrated in this WIP are sure to blow a few minds when I demo them after the release. :cool::smooooth::)

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

wires (11/27/2016)

Indeed, a tiny but very helpful improvement.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

wires (11/27/2016)

The light makes the picture. ;)

By RobertoColombo - 9 Years Ago

Nice catch, Gerry!!! ;)
I will have a "fact-based" motivation to support my pledge to my wife for a more powerful graphic card :D :P

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

@Roberto
Couldn't you just write her a romantic song, and play it to her on your guitar?
Just make sure the lyrics contain the model number of the card you want, and remember to lay the romance part on pretty thick* :D

*But not thick enough she forgets the specific model number.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

Now it's official, that Pumeco is Pumeconella in truth! :P

By RobertoColombo - 9 Years Ago

pumeco (11/27/2016)

@Roberto
Couldn't you just write her a romantic song, and play it to her on your guitar?
Just make sure the lyrics contain the model number of the card you want, and remember to lay the romance part on pretty thick* :D
*But not thick enough she forgets the specific model number.

:-)
I think she can't stand anymore, since long time, to hear over and over the same songs :laugh: (and I have about 100 songs in my repertoire... :doze: )

By justaviking - 9 Years Ago

I wonder what will be revealed in the second video? We have "Part 1." (Part one of... 2? 3? 4?)

Will we be able to do "photo face fitting" without needing Crazy Talk 8? Not a big deal, but it was long-promised for iC6. If you bought CT8, then you were supposed to get the face fitter module for iClone "free" when it was released, and I don't recally them officially retracting that.

P.S.
@Pumeco - That was a really funny post about the song with the GPU model number ion it. LOL

ADDED:
At the top of the Pre-Order page, there are two links that say "Stay Tuned." One for "Professional Animation (curve editor) and one for "Open Architecture," so we have at least two more announcement preview videos coming our way.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/b7da6e4f-7596-4bb1-9aac-0083.jpg

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

@Roberto
Sounds like you tried it before, and more than a few times :D

@JJJAM
Only the very best advice from me, Jammie, the very best :Whistling:

@Dennis
Cheers mate, it makes me happy when I make people happy :cool:
Not happy about the length of time I have to wait until the next video though, bloody hell, I thought it was coming next week or something!

By RobertoColombo - 9 Years Ago

pumeco (11/27/2016)

@Roberto
Sounds like you tried it before, and more than a few times :D

Of course! Exactly like Pumeco described: I always got no new card... but still enjoyed :cool: :D

Cheers :laugh:

By yoyomaster - 9 Years Ago

I wonder if the new facial animation tools will also work with DAZ Genesis 3 characters, or only CC characters?

We see a DAZ Gen3 character in the video, but not much facial animation.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Being that the facial animation is driven by a rig which allows for DAZ avatar characterization, I would think there is a good likelihood. The rig, in all previous versions of iClone, can drive either a collection of morph shapes, or bones.

By yoyomaster - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/28/2016)

That's what I thought, but I wanted a second opinion, thanks for the reply.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p (11/28/2016)

rampa (11/28/2016)

Being that the facial animation is driven by a rig

True

The rig, ...can drive either a collection of morph shapes, or bones.

The Rig does NOT drive bones.... The bones are the Rig!
~ Bone-Based = move the bones.... the vertices move

Morph Animation:
~ (Internally) a morph modifier (WEIGHTS) the values "Snapping vertex position from morph to morph."

Nope. :)

User input drives controllers which drive the bones or the morphs.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

What is your preferred terminology for the controller the user interacts with? Whatever you wish to call it, it is what drives either bones or morphs.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

That bit, in the blue box. What's your preferred terminology, besides "Jason Osipa" style?

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/c3bc84e6-e00c-48fe-a574-7b3b.jpg

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Just pointing out that were saying the same thing. RL uses the same type of facial controls in their rig. :)

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

I guess we have you to thank, those features surely would never have been upgraded had they not listened to you. We're sure lucky you're around. You should get a medal.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

That picture is simply illustrative (google search result). It is not what is in iClone. The current iClone facial control layout is the same it's been in previous versions. We have not seen the new system for iC7 yet.

By Magique - 9 Years Ago

The video shows some promising visual enhancements for iClone. I started looking at the videos and information available for iClone 7 so far, but I see no mention of Indigo or any other offline renderer. Does this mean that Indigo has been dropped and there will be no replacement?

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

I forgot where I read about Indigo specifically, but it will work. They do say all iClone 6 features are in v7.

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

I was the one who mentioned the mirror. It's on record...:P What people won't do to get praised...:unsure:

By justaviking - 9 Years Ago

I invented PBR, but it wasn't deliverable until after Al Gore invented the internet for me. :P

By Galfridus - 9 Years Ago

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/f9f28ef0-ebaa-433e-ac5d-6fe4.jpg

Glad I waited before making IC7 pre-order. Seems my set up won`t meet min spec.:sick:
This info has previously been requested several times by others in this forum thread.
What a pity it has to be gleened from elsewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdqDKY_rRUY
Geoff.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Requirements or recommendation? Is that requirement for certain features, but ok to run without them, ie. use new animation tools until I can get the money to afford an expensive video card? I also have to say it is pretty shabby that a. the specs were not released when they started making sales and b. that we get little to no info her on the forum, we really shouldn't have to fill in the blanks ourselves based on some nested conversation somewhere on Facebook. Grumble grumble :P .....I wonder what I can pawn?

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

I mentioned earlier in this thread that VXGI (Global Illumination) spec requirements are a 970 or 980. It may run on earlier hardware, but the 970/80 were specifically optimized for VXGI. I know it runs on the 10 series of Nvidia cards, because I've seen Youtube videos of such. I think the "recommendation" is just passed on from Nvidia, and it is a good recommendation, but may not be absolute.

I've also played with other implementations of voxel cone rendering that worked fine on my GTX 770.

That said, the PBR and whatever other new tools are included do not require significantly more power, and will run fine.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

My consolation is by the time iC7 is fully released, I'll have saved up for the card.

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

It's indeed sad that important information is only broadcast through Facebook. I thought that's what the forum is for. Not everyone is charmed by communication through social media. System specs have been requested for days with no response from RL.

By Galfridus - 9 Years Ago

animagic (11/29/2016)

Just for clarity my earlier post of IC7 Min spec from RL came from YouTube comments. I included the link when I posted.
Geoff.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Yeah, Facebook, Youtube, neither are as important to communicating with their users as the forum they host.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Hopefully RL is able to get it out to alpha/beta testers who can test it on a broader range of cards. I have seen the UE4 implementation of VXGI running on a 950, If I recall.

Here is the list of GPU's from when it was released. Later series with the same second and third digit will work fine as well. Earlier series, I don't really know but am guessing "not".

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/vxgi/supported-gpus

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

I´m wondering why the newest generation is not listed.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

eternityblue (11/29/2016)

Yeah, Facebook, Youtube, neither are as important to communicating with their users as the forum they host.

Indeed, but they are trying to keep us in line and online.

By wires - 9 Years Ago

WARNING RANT.

I feel sorry for Peter at times like this. He does his best to keep the user community here up to date, and yet he seems to be always fighting windmills.

Just about everything we "know" at the moment regarding iClone 7 has been first posted by users viewing Facebook, with Peter mostly confirming the information. at a later time. The WIP video had been viewed by almost everyone here before he even got a chance to post a link. "What's New" patch information is almost always posted first by some user who checked for updates and hit lucky with the Time Zone lottery.

He has also often posted information "in good faith", and based on what he was told only to be nailed to the cross later when he had to retract, or correct, said information - I admit to being one of those holding a few nails for the hammer swingers to drive home at times. :blush:

And once again we have news of a new release, and guess who is being dragged screaming up the hill with a few planks on his back - closely followed by the nail and hammer mob? If anyone takes time to check out Online Activity list at the bottom of the main forum page they will notice (depending on the time of day where they reside) that the place is just crawling with (RL) types - and none of them are posting anything of interest to the general user community. :pinch::angry:

He is not only fighting an uphill battle for correct product information, but he also has to contend with a few specialists around here whose respect for him, and others, seems to be well below sewer level.

The next WIP video is supposed to be available in Jan. 2017, so let's all enjoy Christmas and wait for the good news.

End of Rant.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 9 Years Ago

Wow, with PBR, GI and positional IBL, iClone v7 is 'the' long awaited release. Plus API/Python scripting ! :D

Thanks Reallusion, you made the right choices. It is now up to us to prove you right.

Back to (serious) work.. after 6 years of waiting.

ps: the good surprise here is the positional/baking IBL feature, I pushed for it in several of my thread/messages as a workaround to GI but seeing both in v7 was unexpected !

Cheers,
Guy.

By Galfridus - 9 Years Ago

wires (11/29/2016)

I couldn't agree more Gerry. In addition the recent “revelations” on Facebook and Youtube appear to come from some scribe at Reallusion who chooses to hide behind anonymity.

Thankfully I don`t see any adverse comments made here directed personally at Peter(RL) and those of us who are long term members of the forum are acutely aware he has the unenviable role of “the messenger” and should rightfully be protected, by code of honour, from “being shot”.

However, it does highlight that yet again as a company RL accept pre-payment for new products via premature, aggressive, ambiguous, time-limited, marketing fluff. The clear, reliable facts customers actually require to make an informed choice have to be sought, requested and possibly assembled in retrospect from fractured and diverse sources.

I hope the collective comments made throughout this forum thread will prove constructive ammunition for Peter(RL) to continue fighting that “uphill battle for correct product information” on our behalf. When time permits I hope he will forward the relevant comments to those at RL with responsibility for making such decisions, as surely it is they who should reflect on them?

Personally I find it unacceptable that Peter is sent naked to represent RL at this vicarage tea party. As an absolute minimum they should ensure he is kept adequately briefed at all times!!! :D

Geoff.

By Magique - 9 Years Ago

Considering all the confusion surrounding product information and minimum specs, I have to bring up something else that has me concerned. The pre-order pricing states that the first 1,000 pre-orders get into the early entry program. Is Reallusion going to remove that text once the 1,000 pre-orders has been achieved? Or better yet, will they be able to confirm that you made it in during the purchase process before you have committed your funds?

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

rampa (11/29/2016)

Here is the list of GPU's from when it was released. Later series with the same second and third digit will work fine as well. Earlier series, I don't really know but am guessing "not".
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/vxgi/supported-gpus

I think it's fair to say that any hopes of running it on my GTX460 cards have been put to rest then :blink::D

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

animagic (11/29/2016)

Unfortunately the forum and Facebook are run by different team members. On the forum we normally only post information once it is classed as "official" but sometimes information is posted/leaked earlier on Facebook. It is regrettable that this happens and we are not always on the same page but we will certainly discuss how we can improve on this in the future.

Regarding system requirements these are now available at the bottom of the page below.

https://www.reallusion.com/event/iClone7-preorder/

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

wires (11/29/2016)

Hi Gerry,

Thank you for the support. Sometimes it can be extremely frustrating doing this job so I really appreciate the kind words of support. :)

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

Very cool to heard you Peter ! I second Gerry in this manner. Really admiratif of your forbearance....

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

@ Galfridus @mtakerkart - Thank you also for the words of support. It is greatly appreciated.

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

As for more good news: Did anyone notice the correction made in product comparison chart? Under 3DXchange 7 Pro we now have: Export OBJ for Morph & Cloth Design.

So that's great news for all of those who have no need for Pipeline otherwise.

I also would like to add my appreciation for the job Peter has been doing over the years.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

I guess it is time for a group hug, forget any details about iclone 7 that are unanswered, as long as Peter gets the emotional support he needs, everything is rosy. Who needs information? Bah, humbug, I say. Wait, did a user just post an off topic YouTube video? Better jump on that right away ;-)

By Magique - 9 Years Ago

I see a lot of improvement so far with iClone 7. Rendering is already superior and all the new features sound like they will really raise the bar for real-time 3D filmmaking. I even see the addition of an open architecture, which is something I suggested a while back so am very pleased to see this get into iClone. I believe that feature is going to drive a whole new level of functionality when 3rd party developers get their hands on it and exploit it.

However, there is one thing that I don't see that I would urge Reallusion to change before releasing this product. It may be too late considering the marketing has already begun, but 3dxchange should be eliminated and instead be a core piece of the iClone 7 software. iClone is the only software of its kind that I know of that requires a separate application to import/export content.

By RobertoColombo - 9 Years Ago

Peter (RL) is surely one of the best moderator I ever seen.
Communication gaps is daily working life: who works in a company, where the number of employer is greater than "N" ( choose N as you like according to your experience ;) ), knows what I mean.
Personally, I experienced sometimes what does it mean to be in front of a customer and discovering that I was not in the loop of some information: ugly experience, especially with some of the tough customers that I cope with... :D

So, Peter (RL), you are not alone in this situation... but keep up the good job!

Cheers

Roberto

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

eternityblue (11/29/2016)

Hahaha ... group hug ... funny and brief summary of the present events on the forum. ;)

But meanwhile Peter gave us some further informations and he is really doing a pretty good job in general to be fair.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Yeah, I'm just poking fun, and I am guessing Peter is subject to the deficiencies of others. I do hope they learn their lessons though, because it sure sucks having to guess at so much stuff for a product already accepting sales. I don't blame Peter, I blame the system, man, it's the system. Big Daddy RL as a certain member here would say ;-)

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

Sure, it´s a little bit like if they want you to book a flight without telling you the destination.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

eternityblue (11/29/2016)

I blame the system, man, it's the system. Big Daddy RL as a certain member here would say ;-)

Yeah, say what you like about sw00000p, but he's had that much influence on the forum that others are beginning to use the term BigDaddy RL, and it's all thanks to sw00000p!
Before too long they might have to change their logo to match the sw00000p description :D

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

animagic (11/29/2016)

As for more good news: Did anyone notice the correction made in product comparison chart? Under 3DXchange 7 Pro we now have: Export OBJ for Morph & Cloth Design.

Yes I did get that clarified with the iClone PM. That is some good news for 3DX Pro users.

I also would like to add my appreciation for the job Peter has been doing over the years.

Thank you also for the kind words Job. :)

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

eternityblue (11/29/2016)

As you rightly say the main point of this thread relates to iClone 7 and not me. Unfortunately as we have started the pre-order for iClone 7 much earlier than we normally do there are still some points that need to be finalised. So while it may appear we are refusing to give answers, it is only because we don't want to be giving incorrect information. I can promise you that as soon as I'm allowed to share information with you all I will (and possibly even a bit earlier ;) ).

By justaviking - 9 Years Ago

Peter (RL) (11/30/2016)

animagic (11/29/2016)

As for more good news: Did anyone notice the correction made in product comparison chart? Under 3DXchange 7 Pro we now have: Export OBJ for Morph & Cloth Design.

Yes I did get that clarified with the iClone PM. That is some good news for 3DX Pro users.

I also would like to add my appreciation for the job Peter has been doing over the years.

Thank you also for the kind words Job. :)

I, too, want to echo the support for Peter(RL). It's often difficult to be the public face of a company. When we're frustrated, who bears the brunt of our rants? Peter. It's the nature of the job, but that doesn't make it any more fun. So "thanks" again for your hard work. It's always a welcome delight to see your smiling avatar appear in a thread.

It's great to see the 3DXchange correction. Now... about the placement of the Graph Editor in the product line... any chance of that moving down on level (or more)?

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

Magique (11/29/2016)

Yes when the limit for early access is reached the notice will be removed from the store.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Yeah, I just typed a bunch of stuff that is better left unsaid. To quote the Grateful Dead: You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know.

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

@Roberto, JJJAM and Justaviking - Thank you also for the kind words of support. It really means a lot.

By Postfrosch - 9 Years Ago

@Peter (RL)
It is already a bad job you have to run at the time.
You come (mostly) at the right time and to clarify things
I would like to thank you and your work
Greetings from Germany
Postfrosch

By Postfrosch - 9 Years Ago

Did anyone notice the correction made in product comparison chart? Under 3DXchange 7 Pro we now have: Export OBJ for Morph & Cloth Design.

Yes I did get that clarified with the iClone PM. That is some good news for 3DX Pro users.

Yes I have read this product news, but I admit I can not interpret it properly.
If this function, which is now incorporated into the project description, is the description of "Replace Mesh" (that is, the processing and the morphen of clothes as before also under this function)
or
Is there really the export possibility in 3dx7 pro as obj file also for Props as in the previous 3dx Pro programs.

This question should be allowed to ask them. I therefore ask for a consensus
Greets from Germany
Postfrosch

By yoyomaster - 9 Years Ago

You guys should consider integrating Cycles as a non real-time solution for iClone 7, it is free, it is fast, supports both CPU and GPU, it renders beautifuly, and it is being integrated in more and more 3D packages these days, just a thought.

https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Source/Render/Cycles/Standalone

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

6:36 - 6:56 ... Looks like they fixed the lip-gloss, so we can have high-gloss lipstick now :cool:

By Kevin.S - 9 Years Ago

No software is going to be problem free, or have every feature you want, I dont care if you spend $7000 on Houdini or $5000 on Maya etc, they all have issue bugs and problems. I have never used software that had every feature I would like. Software will always be a continued work in progress no matter how great or bad it is. I chuckle when people complain about having to put in a little extra work for the desired results, or a UI is old and outdated etc. Its never gonna be perfect and will never have all the features you would like. Software evolves with time its never a finished product. Even a $30.00 3d program can do great things with a good artist.

Be happy with what you have cause there are many people who have nothing.:D

By Magique - 9 Years Ago

kevin.S (12/1/2016)

Software evolves with time

Actually, it is intelligently designed.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Magique (12/1/2016)

kevin.S (12/1/2016)

Software evolves with time

Actually, it is intelligently designed.

Thou shall codeth not thy software on the seventh day, for that is a day of beta testing.

By Delerna - 9 Years Ago

Here here, totally agree with you kevin s.
Nothing wrong with suggesting/requesting improvements but continuous complaints and calling the software junk! Well, go get some other software then. In the not so distant past I have looked into using other software for video creation several times and i always come back to iclone. There is other software that i havent tried that is supposedly more capable but i will never find that out because its just way to expensive for me. So i will use what i have and use whatever capabilities it has to make what I want in the best way that i can. I find that as my skills improve so are the capabilities of iClone. This is great software in my book. No, its not perfect but like you said. No software is perfect.....and neither am I.

Thank you reallusion staff, you are constantly improving this software with great capabilities.
You always keep it reasonably priced so that i can afford to keep up to date with you.
You provide a lot of great content
And you have given me the ability to do the things i have always wanted to do in a way that is not too complicated to learn

By Kevin.S - 9 Years Ago

Delerna (12/1/2016)

Well said :D

By Pixtim - 8 Years Ago

Hello everyone,

I've been working in 3D for almost 20 years.
I use Iclone for a year and this software is full of good ideas and above all, it is reliable!
It still lacks a few simple things that I would like so much to see happen in version 7!
_ Rotation and incremental movement (with the shift key for example)
_ A mirror mode for a movement or position
_ The ability to convert one or more positions resulting from a movement into animation keys
_ And especially ... a window with numerical values for the bones! (I am working on animation loops right now and I have had to go on another software to make some complex and precise movements).

I'm really looking forward to seeing the Motion Curve Graph Editor !!!

In any case, congratulation for all your software!

Ogier

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

Delerna (12/1/2016)

Nothing wrong with suggesting/requesting improvements but continuous complaints and calling the software junk!

I just searched every page of this 14 page thread and never saw anyone refer to iClone as junk. What comments are you referring to?

By Kevin.S - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/9/2017)

Delerna (12/1/2016)

Nothing wrong with suggesting/requesting improvements but continuous complaints and calling the software junk!

I just searched every page of this 14 page thread and never saw anyone refer to iClone as junk. What comments are you referring to?

It was on another post :)

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

kevin.S (1/9/2017)

It was on another post :)

Well, then not relevant to this discussion obviously.

By Peter (RL) - 8 Years Ago

Pixtim (1/9/2017)

Hi Ogier,

Thank you for the feedback. Please remember to post suggestions in our Feedback Tracker and they will be reviewed by the iClone development team. :)

By Pixtim - 8 Years Ago

Hello,
Sorry, I looked for a moment where I could share these remarks but I did not think it was in an entirely different forum. I posted this in the right place now. Thank you
Ogier

By Bushy2490 - 8 Years Ago

Anyone know we early access for IClone 7 will become available?

By Delerna - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/9/2017)

kevin.S (1/9/2017)

It was on another post :)

Well, then not relevant to this discussion obviously.

Actually, if you included all of what i said then it should be obvius that my comment was in agreement with a comment made by kevin s. So if my comment is irrelevant to this thread then so was Kevins (which i dont agree with). Yes, calling this software junk was from another thread
Anyway, whatever. Your entitled to your opinion and i will shutup now

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

I'm wondering when the second preview video will come. I'm extremely eager for more info on animation related updates.

By justaviking - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/11/2017)

I'm wondering when the second preview video will come. I'm extremely eager for more info on animation related updates.

Well... we're 1/3 done with January, so the window is narrowing.
Slowly.

You're not alone. I'm anxious to see Video #2 also.

By sbaerman - 8 Years Ago

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/7e14b192-2d30-465d-a760-a084.png

Hi all,

am extremly eager also to see video number 2. Even better to get the new software in my hands. CC2 beta is nice, but it is the same functionality without anything new/added. Just better looking. So We need the full picture :-)

Peter any hints?

In soccer they have these oracle's like an octopus, that swins in one or the other cave to decide for the winning team.
Maybe he's able to predict when we will get it :-)

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

@sbaerman: I think you underestimate the importance of what is added to CC2, which is of course all in conjunction with IC7.

By sbaerman - 8 Years Ago

@animagic. for sure, you are right. But CC itself is like a car without engine if you have IC7. I appreciate the work RL is doing on IC7, this will become the game changer, so I cant wait to get it in my hands :-)

I found some issues in CC2, but did not find the time to make screenshots yet.

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

sbaerman (1/12/2017)

It would certainly be helpful to report those issues. RL has been very responsive, so it's a good opportunity.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

I previously posted a comment directed at the devs, but never received any feedback. One of the biggest problems with iClone is that we have to buy a separate, and expensive, application for importing/exporting content (i.e. 3dxchange). To my knowledge, I have never seen a comparable tool that has not made this part of the main program. Just to list a few examples, none of the following tools require a separate app:

3DS Max, Maya, Lightwave, Messiah Studio, Modo, Houdini, Blender, Daz, Poser, et. al.

Would Reallusion please wrap 3dxchange into iClone 7 before release?

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

@Magique
3DS Max, Maya, Lightwave, Messiah Studio, Modo, Houdini, Blender, Daz, Poser, et. al. etc.. are DCC tools, meant to create content.
iClone is not. It is meant to create Movies. You can animate though and export those animations but hence the 3DXchange tool and pipeline.
Not eveyrone need to create 'content' from iClone or import 'custom' content within iClone, some don't have the need for 3DXchange, so I believe having both iClone and 3DXchange as separate products makes sense.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Abstracting out 3dxhange makes the base price cheaper. Not everyone needs the rigging functionality, and this keeps it in the hobbyist price range. I appreciated how I could build my kit up in stages, I never have much $$ all at one time to spend on hobbies. We could have just one version with 3dxhange, but RL probably would lose a chunk of customers.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

grabiller (1/12/2017)

You are flat out wrong. Daz and Messiah Studio are specifically movie making tools, not DCC. And all the other tools are ultimately for the same purpose, but also contain DCC tools. But importing/exporting is not a DCC function anyway. It is a means to bring content from a DCC tool into the project for use in making movies. Your reasoning makes no sense. And I don't advocate a price increase for something that should be built-in by default. It's not a luxury. It's a necessity.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/12/2017)

grabiller (1/12/2017)

That means you don't understand the reality of the DAZ and iClone markets. The primary mean to get content into these kind of products is through Marketplaces not DCC. Messiah Studio, at the beginning being a plugin for Lightwave, is in essence a DCC tool (specialized in animation even though it has its own renderer now) like the other ones mentioned. Making movies involves DCC tools, renderers, compositing tools, grading tools and often much more tools. Products such as iClone are meant to be kind of all in one solution. Again, not everyone need to import custom content into iClone, if you don't understand this then indeed you can't understand why 3DXchange is a separate product, but it's your problem. Don't reverse the situation by pretending others are wrong.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

grabiller (1/12/2017)

Magique (1/12/2017)

grabiller (1/12/2017)

That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, but it should not be a separate product. The fact that you basically made a case for it being separate on the basis of iClone being a unique situation actually proves my point. They are doing this differently than everyone else. And my point was exactly that. It should not be different than everyone else. And why do you care if it's included at the same price? That's what I believe should be the case. If you don't need the feature then you wouldn't even know it was there or care.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

The way I see it, iClone could cost double to start with, and that would remove a whole segment of users from their market. Just pretend iClone costs $199 and comes with 3dxchange and move on. If it isn't worth that price to you, then find something else. My only real complaint with 3dx is that often you have to bounce around between iCLone, 3dx, and CC to get stuff done, so there are some workflow issues that could be improved upon.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

You are missing my point as well. As I believe it should be included in the product as a base feature, since all other products of this sort do so, the additional cost to me is prohibitive. It should cost exactly the same and include the 3dxchange functionality. I need 3dxchange functionality, but can't afford the extra expense.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Well, they price their product how they like, a lot of the tools you mentioned cost a lot more. Blender is free, but try doing stuff in Blender with the ease of iclone. Most new people to 3d will be bewildered.

Hey, I wish everything is free, but it's not.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/12/2017)

../..And why do you care if it's included at the same price? That's what I believe should be the case. If you don't need the feature then you wouldn't even know it was there or care.

You are totally right here, except that's the point, it can't be the same price and @eternityblue explained very well why and I completely agree with him.
Yet you can't compare iClone price with 3dsMax, Maya, Modo, etc.. Except of course for Blender obviously, and DAZ which has a different commercial approach albeit being Marketplace based.

After all, at Reallusion they have the right to decide how they build their own business. And perhaps if they are still alive it is because they decided to precisely follow this commercial approach at first.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

Perhaps a developer can answer my question since it was directed at them. I honestly don't need a bunch of people telling me my reasoning is wrong when it's a perfectly valid point considering the dozens of other packages that do it that way.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

This is like complaining about the price of a meal at a diner because the fries are extra, and saying how the fancy French restaurant includes fries with every meal. I do believe that is a false equivalency.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Magpie, maybe you need to take it up with them instead of users on a forum then.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

grabiller (1/12/2017)

Magique (1/12/2017)

../..And why do you care if it's included at the same price? That's what I believe should be the case. If you don't need the feature then you wouldn't even know it was there or care.

You are wrong and right. Wrong in saying that it can't be the same price. It can be whatever price they want it to be. If they want a feature, that frankly should be part of the base product, not increase the price then they certainly have the right to do that.

You are right in they can run their business anyway they want though. However, you are not they so please let them respond instead of you telling me what they should think or do.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

Nice analogy, but not correct. It's like if you went to 10 fast food restaurants in town and every single one of them had $5 meal deals that included fries, but one one them had a $5 meal deal without fries. You'd certainly complain.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/12/2017)

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

I doubt a Reallusion developer will answer you, more probably someone from commercial ; )
Its not that your reasoning is wrong, it is simply biased because you can't afford the extra expense. So I understand you are "unhappy" with the situation, but it does not mean the situation is "wrong".

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Yeah, because we all know Maya is the same price as iclone, right? No?

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

grabiller (1/12/2017)

Magique (1/12/2017)

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

If my reasoning is not wrong then attaching a bias to it is irrelevant.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/12/2017)

../..However, you are not they so please let them respond instead of you telling me what they should think or do.

Right, perhaps you should then send a message to their support department instead of posting on the forum if you don't want us to participate and hear our opinions.
But fair enough, I'll let them give you an answer, if any ; )

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

Yeah, because we all know Maya is the same price as iclone, right? No?

Blender is free, Daz is free, Messiah Studio is usually on sale for less than iClone. Maya is more expensive, but as pointed out, it is also a high-end DCC tool that can be used with free Pixar Renderman software.Modo is actually cheaper as well now with the Indie subscription model. Your point is irrelevant. Price is based on the business model. It can be included at no extra charge at at least at minimal extra charge.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

grabiller (1/12/2017)

Magique (1/12/2017)

../..However, you are not they so please let them respond instead of you telling me what they should think or do.

The community rep started this post. He is the interface to Reallusion. He answers other similar questions and communicates them to the team. No reason why I shouldn't ask here. I had no idea the community would oppose such an innocent request that could benefit all.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/12/2017)

../..If my reasoning is not wrong then attaching a bias to it is irrelevant../..

Your reasoning is not wrong (in the sense "wrong" is not the right word, sorry I'm not native english), it is simply "Magique" ; )

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

Magique (1/12/2017)

../..I had no idea the community would oppose such an innocent request that could benefit all.

Perhaps you should re-read at least my first answer to you, I was not opposing anything, just trying to explain why it "makes sense". But I wouldn't mind having 3DXchange integrated into iClone for the same price if it was possible.
I'm just not naive enough to believe this will ever happen (for the same price) but.. who knows.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

I also don't oppose adding it to iClone, but keep everything in perspective, the price with 3DX is still reasonable. Would you rather have no lower priced iClone option? Anyhow, if you don't want a public discussion, don't partake in one.

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

That's a very old discussion that never seems to go anywhere... 3DXchange started out as a separate product years after iClone was first released and has stayed that way. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't bother me. 3D software products that include everything and the kitchen sink often have unwieldy user interfaces.

RL better publishes WIP 2 soon so that we have something to talk about.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

At least we could talk about the functionality, I'd love to see streamlined work flows and a new ui, and maybe more tools for getting things like obj sequences to import and animate. That seems a more productive discussion to me.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

What's wrong with the UI ?

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Some elements like the bone picker are tediously small. And you can't resize columns, especially the tree view, you have to scroll to see everything. Basically it is old and needs updating, I doubt it plays nice on high resolution screen and tablets.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Gosh, I'm using it right now and I can't believe anyone would NOT see the problems with the UI. Clicking on bones, then moving the mouse all the way across the screen to click a list item would be so much easier if the columns were dockable and movable and you could just put the two columns side by side.

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

64-bit version would be good too.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

This is the thing: Reallusion has a UI convention and the 3DX version 6 is out of date. Just from that angle they should update it. It is a certain sort of 'bug' the whole UI is not consistent with other members in its product generation.

By Peter (RL) - 8 Years Ago

Magique(1/12/2017)

Hi Magique,

While for many having the features of 3DXchange built into iClone would be beneficial, we have to be careful not to bloat out iClone with features not everyone wants. It's important to remember that iClone is not traditional 3D modelling software, it is more an animation studio for those wanting to make movies, training videos and the like.

Incorporating 3DXchange features will inevitably lead to a price rise for the base product which for those who don't ever plan to import or export models would be unfair. We also have to prioritise the realtime aspect of iClone which is what sets it apart from software like 3DS Max and Maya. You can't just add features without it affecting how iClone performs. It always has to be balanced and for now keeping 3DXchange as an optional extra makes the most sense. :)

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

If I were Reallusion, I don't think I would want to maintain 3DX as a separate product at this stage, IMO they should roll much of its functionality, maybe at least OBJ import and some compatible rigs, into iC7 and raise the price to $159 and then offer the Pipeline version with more comprehensive abilities like VISEME setup, full rigging, weight mapping, all the truly pro level features and maybe just call it 'Pro'. Pipeline by default is a pro feature, and it is hard to be a pro without it. And Pipeline might not be too clear to some what that entails anyhow. It seems like a bad marketing term to me.

But that's just me.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

This exactly what I would suggest as well. I should have been more clear. I don't necessarily need ALL the features of 3dxchange, but importing/exporting content (or even just importing) should be a part of the base product. Perhaps the features for grouping and making sub-objects as well. Then make a separate pro tool for all the advanced stuff. Now surely that's not too much to ask. And I think it does make sense.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Yeah, but they have priorities and plans we're not privy to and their considerations may make more sense for them, so anyhow, I dunno, I just want the whole product to evolve nicely and part of that is the ugly business of money. But we do seem headed in the right direction, they have slimmed the product line to be more coherent, hopefully that will continue. They have to be competitive, so hopefully our feedback helps them to understand the customer better and what our needs are. I also only wanted basic features when I first looked into iclone, but I'm glad I got the 3dx package and it has been extremely useful. I liked that I could buy the product in stages as well, and am still looking to upgrade to Pipeline when I'm able.

By Magique - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

I just want the whole product to evolve nicely...

I would rather it continue to be intelligently designed by creative people.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Hey Peter, here's my suggestion: You guys send out a mailer to all your registered iClone users, have a comprehensive survey of what your users need and what their hardships are, and after completion give some nice trinket out of your old catalog that is a substantial thank you but not a revenue loss for you guys. This would be a good way to garner valuable data, as well as being a very good PR and marketing thing.

By Rampa - 8 Years Ago

animagic (1/12/2017)

64-bit version would be good too.

I think this is an important update that 3DX needs.

By wungun - 8 Years Ago

when are you gonna post the new animation tool if there are any. I mean we just gonna have a software like daz studio where we can make nice looking renders but have shitty foot sliding animation. I mean pbr is ok enhancement. But i am conserned with making my stuff move and look right with out haveing to use motion builder for all the animation. Everyone wants PBR and nobody wants to stop the ridiculous footsliding inside iclone. Iclone needs a way to blend and correct animation right now, whats the use of doing pixar like renders if the animation sucks? I hope the animation tools in Iclone get a serious upgrade. I cant wait for Iclone 8 or 9.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Yeah, it would be nice to hear the new features for animation, I'm also dying for a way to do something as simple as setting the default interpolation so I can do blocking, I don't really want to use canned animations for a lot of things. I want to know more about the 'professional' upgrades, and the graph editor, but I guess that's a while off.

By Alasandro - 8 Years Ago

wungun (1/12/2017)

YES... YES... a THOUSAND TIMES YES!

By justaviking - 8 Years Ago

My two-cents... two thoughts, so one-cent each...

a) There is a "graph editor" (curve editor) planned for iClone 7. Based on history, it might be 7.2 or 7.3, but certainly before 8 or 9. Hopefully that helps a lot with the "animation tools." Plus Reallusion has a history of adding functionality to a release cycle that wasn't previously announced, so who knows what surprises might come in the next 12-18 months?

b) My concern about modularity is to ensure it is solid and reasonably seamless. I am comfortable with Character Creator being it's own module. That way you have all the controls dedicated to the task of working on the character without it being tangled up in the animation system. The iClone button to "Edit Character" (using CC) and the CC button to "Export to iClone" seem to work pretty good. It's logical, nearly intuitive, and I don't have to go through 5 steps each direction to make it work. So I extend that thought to 3DXchange - make it as reliable and tightly-linked and logical as possible, and I'm okay with it being a separate module.

By animagic - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

That's what the Feedback Tracker is for. It could certainly be promoted more, so that it's gets wider use. However, conducting a survey and compiling the results is a tremendous task, and then you have to sift through a lot of irrelevant material. I'd rather that RL spends their time and money on development.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

Actually, it wouldn't be hard, just compile a set of questions with multiple choice ratings, this is standard web app stuff, and then wait for the returned info. Maybe I wasn't very clear, I don't mean to have essays, but you could easily run a report in Excel or whatever and get nice fancy charts and stuff for management to gander at. Anyhow, maybe it is bandwidth they don't have, and yeah, I should use the feedback tracker. But trust me when I say it isn't that hard, but maybe they understand their customers early well already. That video editor thing kind of threw me as a strange use of resources, but we all have different visions and priorities.

By eternityblue - 8 Years Ago

And really, I would expect marketing to be thinking up this kind of promotion, because it has payoffs in multiple ways. So anyhow, marketing is not taking away developer resources beyond maybe a couple meetings to plan and later respond to data.

But I'm not demanding they do anything, it was just a passing thought, sorry for intruding on the sanctity of this thread ☺

By justaviking - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/13/2017)

But I'm not demanding they do anything, it was just a passing thought, sorry for intruding on the sanctity of this thread ☺

There's room for mature discussion and debate (at least in my opinion), and Reallusion has always been quite tolerant, even of dissent, and long as it civil. I didn't notice any intrusion on any thread sanctity. At least it was relatively on topic of iC7 and the future of iClone.

By Peter (RL) - 8 Years Ago

eternityblue (1/12/2017)

Hi Eternityblue,

As has already been mentioned, please make your suggestions via Feedback Tracker. This ensures they get logged and seen by the right people. :)

https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/

By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago

"are we there yet" :)

I just was hoping the early access was coming soon. I can't build my stuff any slower so i think I will just have to do it in iclone 6.

*goes back to my set building for my next not so blockbuster wierdness of strange*

By brand468 - 8 Years Ago

urbanlamb (1/21/2017)

126/5000
I agree, the wait is difficult.
I check every day and hope for early release soon, but suppose we'll have to wait a little longer :-)

By rogyru - 8 Years Ago

Nice break down sw000p